Sorry Liberal-Apologists, Democrats Dirty In Housing Meltdown

Discussion in 'Politics' started by 1BiGG1, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. 1BiGG1

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    Proof John McCain tried to prevent the housing meltdown and there was no support from the democrats.

    Hopefully this will be the end to Obama’s chances at seeing the White House except possibly as a guest but at the very least this should shut the tinfoil hat crowd up here claiming this is purely George Bush and his republican friends fault. :rolleyes:


    AP IMPACT: Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign - Yahoo! News


    McCain, R-Ariz., was not a target of the DCI campaign. He signed Hagel's letter and three weeks later signed on as a co-sponsor of the bill.

    In recent days, McCain has said Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were "one of the real catalysts, really the match that lit this fire" of the global credit crisis. McCain has accused Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama of taking advice from former executives of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and failing to see that the companies were heading for a meltdown.

    The political backdrop to the debate "was like bizarre-o-world," said the second of three people familiar with the program. "The Republicans were pro-regulation and the Democrats were against it; it was upside down."
     
  2. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    Dear Sir,

    How is this secret payment proof?

    Sincerely,
    A Liberal-Apologist.
     
  3. tripod

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    Why can't you get it through your thick skull that the sub prime mortgage crisis was caused by the greed of the primary lenders, not the secondary lenders like Fannie and Freddie. They weren't the ones who originated these loans.

    The primary lenders fucking used Freddie and Fannie like a wet sponge and now all the right wingers want to focus on Fannie and Freddie because they have Democratic connections.

    The housing market was inflated for fucking years and years... and was bound to burst.

    Fannie and Freddie Mac were GREATLY damaged by the sub prime crisis. Yes, they had a CEO that made out with mad money, but he is a CEO and that is what they do. The percentage of CEO's that don't get paid exorbitant amounts of money whether the company fails or not, is downright miniscule.

    Typical right wing smear tactics... it's all you guys have. Your party is bereft of any morality and is really just a fucking corpse.
     
  4. 1BiGG1

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    Dear Liberal-Apologist,

    Thank you for your inquiry. The answer to your question would be look at who co-sponsored the bill and look at who would not support it.

    Regards,

    Reality
     
  5. 1BiGG1

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    Ummm ….. let me suggest learning something about the subject before making any further commentary. I will even help by starting you off in the right direction!

    Start here: who was that that set the guidelines for primary lenders so the paper they initiated could be sold on the secondary market? Hint: That would be Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac.
     
  6. Principessa

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    QFT! Preach it brotha Tripod! :cool:
     
  7. 1BiGG1

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    LOL, shouldn’t your preachers at least have a basic clue on the subject they are preaching about? :wink:
     
  8. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    Bigg, you simply do not show any understanding of how the mortgage market actually works.

    We are all trying to fix blame where it satisfies our personal ideologies. I think balanced answer is that some borrowers are responsible for taking on too much debt. It is also true that congress over the last 30 years (through both Republican and Democratic control) has been incompetent in how it deregulated and incompetent in its oversight.

    Blaming Fannie, Freddie, is just a political bromide.

    If you really are a conservative, you know the answer. (Although all your posts seem more about insults than anything more substantial, so it is hard to judge.)

    The market. Yes, Adam Smith's invisible hand.

    The reason why the sub prime market grew so rapidly was because there was unfathomable boatloads of money in it for everyone in the mortgage chain -- real estate brokers, construction, underwriters, originating banks, secondary mortgage brokers, private equity, mutual funds, and investment banks. All pigs at the trough. Are homeowners without blame? No. But, "follow the money".

    You pick out one culprit, likely because McCain thinks he can pin this on Obama. The truth is that Fannie and Freddie are incredibly bipartisan suck ups, and they know how to put a lot in congress into their pocket. (In fact, John McCain has individuals on his campaign staff that *until recently were still on salary* from Fannie/Freddie.)

    I second NJQT! Represent Brother Tripod!

     
  9. 1BiGG1

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    Let’s start here before anybody makes anymore comments = you are talking with an expert in this industry. Now I have already stated the real cause of this mess and it’s clearly Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac who set the standards money was lent by. Primary lenders did not make up any of their own rules unless they were holding the paper within which was rare so we gotta look at who made the rules.

    There are some that tried cleaning this debacle up and there are those who did nothing. Their records speak for themselves.
     
  10. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    Sorry, Bigg, you lose.

    MBA from Wharton and I work in finance for a global and well-respected firm. So, don't try to claim expertise, when you are clearly just a partisan.

    The secondary market did not cause the mess. Contributing? Sure. Causal? Only in an over-heated and politicized mind.
     
  11. D_Killingsworth Kilbasa

    D_Killingsworth Kilbasa Account Disabled

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    Yes, yes, yes. Well spoken sparky.
     
  12. Pokey4fun

    Pokey4fun New Member

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    No one actually had any response to the original post.

    McCain tried to stop it, didn't get help.

    Where is the insult in that?

    The thread has drifted from that, but no one argued the OP's statement
     
  13. tripod

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    That has nothing to do with the fact that they were given ARMs that would guarantee that the holder of the loan would NOT be able to pay it back. Do you honestly think that the opportunity to get a loan caused the sub prime crisis? I think that you do, because your whole mortgage crisis theory hinges upon it. I think that you also believe that predatory lending doesn't exist and all of those poor folk got the loans that they deserved... that is your fucking point. The poor folk got the loans that were comin' to them.

    That is some seriously flawed and classist thinking. Poor folk deserve a loan that is humane and ethical... just like the well to do. Don't give me the crap about the whole "risk based pricing" thing. The only thing that was "risky" was to cut a loan for a low income family that has an adjustable rate... that almost guarantees tha the loan will go into default sooner or later.

    Don't forget that in 2005, nearly 40% of all home loans were to vacation homes or for investment purposes (speculators).

    South Florida's #1 Source for local TV News (Local10) published an article on March 11, 2005 stating that, "Real estate experts said many buyers are just looking for short-term profit, not a place to live. They're called "flippers" because they sell their condominium contracts before or right after they've closed for a fat profit.

    One large bank has just downgraded the stock of WCI, one of Florida's biggest builders, fearing that too many buyers won't be able to close on their units if the real estate bubble bursts.In the past, most building booms in South Florida have gone bust, a recurring cycle."

    By 2007 speculators left the housing market.


    Keynesian economics describes 3 kinds of speculative borrowing that can contribute to the accumulation of debt that will in turn lead to a collapse of asset values.

    1). The "hedge borrower" who borrows with the intent of making debt payments from cash flows from other investments

    2). The "speculative borrower" who borrows based on the belief that they can service interest on the loan but who must continually roll over the principal into new investments

    3). The "Ponzi borrower", who relies on the appreciation of the value of their assets (e.g. real estate) to refinance or pay-off their debt but cannot repay the original loan.

    If you want to blame someone... blame the speculators.

    And don't ever assume that I don't know what I am talking about gobtard.

    Thank you sister NJ!

    That was AMAZINGLY well said sir!!!! :smile:
     
    #13 tripod, Oct 20, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  14. 1BiGG1

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    The subprime ARM’s you are talking about were a great product if the borrower used them as designed. Lets say a low FICO score homeowner wanted to refinance prior to the ARM’s. In many cases they could not because they could not qualify for the interest rate they deserved so lenders came out with the ARM’s to help them.

    The idea was simple, the borrower could not qualify for the high rate they deserved so the AMR product came out allowing them to get a low fixed rate for two or three years before adjusting giving them time to clean up their credit so they could get a decent fixed rate loan. The problem here is that few of them did anything about cleaning up their credit and/or kept up with their previous bad habits so they were stuck with the adjustable they had.

    And yes, I am well aware of predatory lending amongst the other many other atrocities played out in this business and they were not just against the “poor”. As far as a champion for the poor and ethics, I highly doubt you will find a more humane or ethical person in this business then me when I was writing residential.

    The speculators = you will find no sympathies for them from me. They were buying many (likely most of them) of those with SISA (Stated Income Stated Assets), SIVA ( Stated Income Verified Assets), NINA (no documentation loans), I/O (Interest Only) and piggy back loans that allowed borrowers to go up to 100% financing. You will see Fannie/Freddie written all over these as well.
     
  15. tripod

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    I am REALLY impressed by this post 1BIGG1, it seems to be a definitive account of the mortgage crisis... I am fucking BLOWN AWAY!!! :headbang:
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Exactly!:cool:

    Let's not forget about those that kept 'cashing-out' every 6 months as real estate values escalated. Gives me a headache just thinking about it...
     
  17. 1BiGG1

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    I would think somebody with an alleged MBA would know enough to not pretend to know another’s expertise in anything so I gotta ask; does Wharton have a program affiliated with the Miss Cleo School of Clairvoyance or something like that? :biggrin1:

    That aside, let’s not pretend the blame here doesn’t belong with Fannie/Freddie and there is nothing partisan about that statement.
     
  18. dreamer20

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    I found it hilarious that this industry expert denied the mortgage crisis problem when sargon20 referred to it, circa June 19,2008, and claimed a high majority of those lending programs were really "a huge success". This in spite of the subprime mortgage crisis being a known threat to the global finance system as of March 2007:

    Subprime mortgage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    http://www.lpsg.org/1558583-post115.html


    ^^The primary lenders were aware that they threw common sense out the window in lending at exorbitant rates of interest to high risk borrowers and 1BiGG1's credibility, yet again, has gone down the toilet---->. :Flush:
     
    #18 dreamer20, Feb 9, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  19. B_bi_in_socal

    B_bi_in_socal New Member

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    lol
     
  20. B_bi_in_socal

    B_bi_in_socal New Member

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    It's like that old proverb,

    "Invite a beggar to dinner and he'll soon put his feet on the table."



    Here these people are, of lower social class, given the golden opportunity to really make it in America. The rules were bent for them, money was lent to them for practically free AND they were given time to clean up their shit and what do they do?

    They fucked it all up.

    Exactly as Eric Hoffer said,

    "We cannot win the weak by sharing our wealth with them. They feel our generosity as oppression. St. Vincent De Paul cautioned his disciples to deport themselves so that the poor "will forgive them the bread you give them.""
     
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