Spelling Nazis really get my ghoti

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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Originally posted by prepstudinsc@Sep 18 2005, 07:22 PM
The real question is how are these students passing through elementary school and junior high or middle school not learning the basics of spelling? Are their teachers that incompetent or do the just not care?

Ah, that. The sad fact is that the particular student whose spelling I described is our school's star running back. I am feeling pressure from some faculty members concerning his grades: he must maintain a certain grade point average to be allowed to play, or even practice. I'm not backing down, and I have the principal's support. I have a responsibility to the students.
 

jonb

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Accident. I meant international scientific and diplomatic publications.

Also, if you're referring to an organization or program(me) another English-speaking country, local spelling is preferred. So it's Labour Party and Land Reform Programme. And of course, when doing citations, spell like the citation does.

In my case, my habit of putting periods after my quotes is because the period can mean so many things in computers. I get tired of people saying:

You'll find the article at http://www.foobar.com/baz/quux.html.

Naturally, this causes a 404 error. (And no, http://www.foobar.com/baz/quux.html isn't a real address, but try it with any other webpage.)

It gets even worse when coding, where quotes and various brackets such as (), [], {}, and <> have meaning, as does "" and sometimes &#39;&#39;.

It&#39;s also bad news in math. 100 has one significant figure while 100. has three.
 

LovesDick

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Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper+Sep 18 2005, 11:14 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DoubleMeatWhopper &#064; Sep 18 2005, 11:14 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-prepstudinsc@Sep 18 2005, 07:22 PM
The real question is how are these students passing through elementary school and junior high or middle school not learning the basics of spelling?  Are their teachers that incompetent or do the just not care?

Ah, that. The sad fact is that the particular student whose spelling I described is our school&#39;s star running back. I am feeling pressure from some faculty members concerning his grades: he must maintain a certain grade point average to be allowed to play, or even practice. I&#39;m not backing down, and I have the principal&#39;s support. I have a responsibility to the students.
[post=344521]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]

Ahhhhh that. Im very biritish to. Telly ho. why dont you admit that you are a fifty or sixty year old school teacher or ha ha ha principal or a nerdy lame-azz guidance counselor. Cuz you are brah. KARATE KID&#33;
 

Freddie53

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Originally posted by prepstudinsc+Sep 18 2005, 07:22 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prepstudinsc &#064; Sep 18 2005, 07:22 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DoubleMeatWhopper@Sep 18 2005, 04:42 PM
[post=344414]Quoted post[/post]​

The real question is how are these students passing through elementary school and junior high or middle school not learning the basics of spelling? Are their teachers that incompetent or do the just not care?
[post=344446]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]
In your last sentence, you mispelled the word they. You wrote "the" instead. Your mistake is the one that I make so often. The very same mistake and the very same word. There is a difference in typos and mispelled words. Also there are words that I have to stop and write out in long hand to spell. That is the way I learned how to spell.

Also, as mentioned earlier, there are some people who just can&#39;t spell as there are people who will never learn to read. No curriculum is going to fix that. But a majority of the problem is with the PARENTS. Students value what their parents value. Many students have parents who hated school and couldn&#39;t care less about spelling and they pass that attitude on to their children. It is difficult for the school to overcome home environments of some of our students.

Some will wonder how those students made it through elementary school. I have tried to retain students before and was vetoed by the administration. And I learned for a good reason. I taught sixth grade. The students I wanted to retain couldn&#39;t read on a third grade level. It doesn&#39;t matter at that point what grade they are in: sixth or seventh. But it does matter what influence a 14 year old student failing several grades that hates school, learning and teachers, can have on a sixth grader. So it wouldn&#39;t have helped that child, but it would have created problems for the next batch of sixth graders.

The time to retain is at the grade level where the problem first starts whatever age that may be. Waiting several years to retain makes retaining no longer a viable option in getting a student on grade level. Example: If a student does not know the basics of addition and subtraction, the time to retain is at the grade level where that is taught, not later. The other option is to provide remedial help after school, Saturdays and during summer school.

The best option is not being used. Parents, not schools or the government need to be held accountable for students who have the ability to learn, but fluff it off in a don&#39;t care fashion. If a parent were required to come to the school to help their wayward child who doesn&#39;t behave or is not doing his or her work, we would see overnight changes. But we are not going to do that.

If we want the best and brightest to be teachers, then we are going to have to pay what it takes to get the best and brightest to teach. I have seen incompetent teachers hired and off the record I was told that, "This isn&#39;t the person we wanted to hire, BUT this was the only applicant as every other school in the area was paying more." So we ended up with the teachers that no one else wanted. The people passed a millage rate increase and we went to the top in pay and in a few years, we had the best teachers as well.

I am a retired teacher and I take issue with you to first assume that it is the teachers fault. Teachers do not make the rules, they do not have any say so anymore about education. Those decisions are made by someone else, many times by people who have never taught.

Students should be first in who is being held accountable, folowed by parents, administration, teachers and then the taxpayers who may not be funding their schools properly.

We all should all take the time to click "Preview Post" and read our post one more time. We all think we made no typos or mispelled words, but sadly many of us have. I typed "of the record" instead of "off the record." That is purely a typo eror. I do know how to spell "off."

So Monty I did find much humor in finding a typo in a post about having posts in good order before you click on "Add Reply."
 

jonb

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Those typos have become very common. The other day, I used "That&#39;s teh suck." &#39;Teh&#39; in this case has come to be a common superlative. It has the advantage of being able to refer to a noun, verb, or adverb, meaning it&#39;s the essence thereof. So &#39;teh suck&#39; means &#39;that which sucks the most&#39; while &#39;teh sex&#39; means &#39;the most amorous&#39;. &#39;Froup&#39; has also become shorthand for newsgroup.

Other common typos and misspellings have become standard. -z has become a suffix indicating something has been pirated, e.g. &#39;mp3z&#39;. &#39;Free speach&#39; and &#39;lawsuite&#39; have become ironic use: &#39;Free speech&#39; refers to the nonexistent &#39;right&#39; to spam, and &#39;lawsuite&#39; refers to a lawsuit without a case.
 

LovesDick

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Oh tellyho mr. freddie53. could you please type a longer message next time about my fave the karate kid? maybe you and him are the same person. both of you are old kooks lurkin on the sex board.

ha ha
 

B_Hung Muscle

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Originally posted by LovesDick@Sep 18 2005, 10:36 PM
Oh tellyho mr. freddie53. could you please type a longer message next time about my fave the karate kid? maybe you and him are the same person. both of you are old kooks lurkin on the sex board.

ha ha
[post=344529]Quoted post[/post]​
:wtf:

I was going to comment but this is like shooting fish in a barrel.
 

Freddie53

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Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper+Sep 18 2005, 10:14 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DoubleMeatWhopper &#064; Sep 18 2005, 10:14 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-prepstudinsc@Sep 18 2005, 07:22 PM
The real question is how are these students passing through elementary school and junior high or middle school not learning the basics of spelling?  Are their teachers that incompetent or do the just not care?

Ah, that. The sad fact is that the particular student whose spelling I described is our school&#39;s star running back. I am feeling pressure from some faculty members concerning his grades: he must maintain a certain grade point average to be allowed to play, or even practice. I&#39;m not backing down, and I have the principal&#39;s support. I have a responsibility to the students.
[post=344521]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]
In my earlier post, I was talking about elementary school where the student has to be there. Also we don&#39;t need fifteen year old students with eleven year old students, so after one or maybe two retentions, we don&#39;t retain again, usually through eighth grade. However, high school is a totally different matter. Ideally an A in any high school subject should mean the same thing in every high school in the nation. And the basic qualifications to pass should also be the same nation wide. To get a high school diploma that will get a student into a state supported school* should have strict standards and all teachers and schools should follow them. Being first chair in the brass section or star running back is no reason to make exceptions.

I believe that before entering ninth grade, every student should take a pretest and in every subject and where there is a major deficiency, non credit remedial work should be required before the student is allowed to enroll in that discipline, especialy in the math, sciences and language arts curriculums.

*The state can&#39;t mandate standards for private colleges. The national associations such as the North Central Accreditation Association does sets standards and ranks colleges. You, the student, need to check on your own the reliability of a private college.
 

Freddie53

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Originally posted by LovesDick@Sep 18 2005, 10:36 PM
Oh tellyho mr. freddie53. could you please type a longer message next time about my fave the karate kid?  maybe you and him are the same person.  both of you are old kooks lurkin on the sex board.

ha ha
[post=344529]Quoted post[/post]​
Oh tellyho Loves Dick, I find your post humorous. Perhaps someday I might type a nice long post to the Karate Kid. I am 54 years old and proud of every year. I hope you make it there someday. Glad you are old enough to start "lurkin on the sex board" with oldtimers such as the Karate Kid and me. From your "name" it appears that you must love sex at least with a person with a dick. I also hope that you are still healthy enough to get it up and can make it work when you are old like me. Every now and then I read about a man past 85 who has fathered a child. What a way to spend your last years. Obviously the mother has to be much younger :evilgrin:

Karate Kid and I aren&#39;t the same person. I wish I were 27 and had the body that he tells us he has. I don&#39;t. And I never did. And I don&#39;t have his IQ either. And I am not likely to get it at age 54 either.

You have a good time "makin&#39; hay up "their" in that "they&#39;re" barn loft with some young cute little buck in his prime now. Don&#39;t "furgit" now."

haha

I do love British humor. Not sure what tellyho means. But I am sure it is humorous.
 

B_HappyHammer1977

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Originally posted by headbang8@Sep 18 2005, 11:30 AM
It&#39;s a pleasure to see so many people on this board who love their language, and who use it with such grace and care.

But we can reach a point where care becomes stifling, and grace gets lost in sludge.

Hey, I&#39;m as guilty as the next guy when it comes to showing off my modest command of English spelling and grammar. For what it&#39;s worth.

This sort of stuff can be amusing for everyone.

But we sometimes dismiss what people say because of the way they say it. Let&#39;s not make moral judgements about people by the way they spell or write. That&#39;s good old-fashioned snobbery.

Many members of the board are gracious enough to point out that for some posters, English isn&#39;t the mother tongue. Mistakes should be accepted--even encouraged; that&#39;s how you learn.

Let&#39;s extend that to posters for whom English IS the mother tongue. And a mother of a tongue it is.

Forget about the inconsistent grammatical rules of English. Every language has those. Besides, we don&#39;t learn the grammar of our language by studying rules--it&#39;s organic.

Spelling, though, isn&#39;t organic. One has to learn to spell. And up to 15% of our population finds it impossible. Many of them are labelled dyslexic.

Funny, English speaking countries harbour two or three times the number of diagnosed dyslexics as, say, Italy, where spelling and sound are pretty consistent.

People like the Simplified Spelling Society argue that we confuse kids who can&#39;t spell with others who suffer genuine problems like cross-dominance. If we reform our spelling, kids will read sooner and more easily. And it will be much easier for English to serve as the international lingua franca which, for better or worse, it has become.

Small steps such as Spelling Reform One could help. It simply says we should spell all short "e" sounds consistently, with a single "e". It creates one prominent homonym ("read" to "red", easily distinguished in context) and resolves several other ambiguities that are not so easy to distinguish through context (read/read, lead/lead etc...). And that notorious mis-spelling, grammer, is no longer the whipping boy of strict grammerians. I don&#39;t agree with all of his reforms, but the guardians of our language need to start loosening the reins somewhere.

Since I fell in love with someone for whom English is a second language (a distant second, I sometimes think), I&#39;ve come to realise how little these sorts of issues count. Spelling is the least of his worries.

Bad spellers aren&#39;t bad thinkers. All you people who seek to uphold high standards of English expression, just chill, willya?

hedbang8
[post=344315]Quoted post[/post]​

...And don&#39;t get me started on the English language that has been bastardised buy America&#33; Americanisation (note that spelling&#33;) has ruined the English language with mis-spellings that are said to be correct. Should be called "American" - I&#39;m waffling now&#33;
 

headbang8

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Originally posted by Hung Muscle+Sep 19 2005, 01:54 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hung Muscle &#064; Sep 19 2005, 01:54 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>uh-oh, you&#39;re going to incur the wrath of a very vocal and extremely prissified bunch in here...
[post=344361]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b]
And I love them all. But they&#39;re wrong.

This is simply about doing things the hard way, or the easy way. The talk of lower "standards" misses the point. That&#39;s like saying we shouldn&#39;t make it easier for people to earn money because it will lower our "standards" of wealth. Rich people said that about the New Deal, believe it or not.
Originally posted by dcwrestlefan@Sep 19 2005, 05:58 AM
if sumwon caint spel eevin simpul shet right, than its spels trobul.  i wont my peeps to bea lidderit.
[post=344417]Quoted post[/post]​
Spelling doesn&#39;t have to be perfectly phonetic to be consistent. For example, dcwrestlefan, you spelled "sumwon" and "wont" the same way, though they&#39;re two different sounds. An opposite but equal error with "eevin" and "bea". In any sensible system one or other of the choices would be just plain wrong--all we need to do is decide. Nice to see you stuck to "right", though, you old traditonalist.
<!--QuoteBegin-DoubleMeatWhopper
@Sep 19 2005, 05:42 AM
Whether I write colour or color, either is preferable to the spelling coller that appeared in one of my students&#39; essays. The only way that I knew what he intended that word to mean was his use of grene [sic] in the same sentence. After reading that essay, seeing words like coller and grene, not to mention sumer, rolercoster, cuzins, unkel, etc., makes me think that it is not correct spelling that is &#39;lost in the sludge&#39;. For some of us, language is more than a mere medium of communication: it is an art. For those of us who appreciate literature, it&#39;s difficult to view it in any other light. If it offends anyone here that I refuse to reduce language to a strictly utilitarian existence, he can simply disregard my posts: plenty of members do that anyway.
[post=344414]Quoted post[/post]​
[/quote]Should he have written the word coller? Everybody knows that the word coller rhymes with the word holler. Or maybe roller? If he&#39;d never put the word into print before (and THAT&#39;S different issue), then coller is just about as plausible as color, colour, collar, culler, kulr or any other such spelling. And why shouldn&#39;t he write grene when he probably sees the word scene in print at least as often? Further, I know what words he&#39;s saying when he writes sumer, rolercoster, cuzins, unkel. He makes more sense than you or I do.

Art? Language is art; spelling is function. I&#39;m not going to condemn 10% of the population to functional illiteracy to support my taste in art. Nor should I exclude
this ten percent of the population from enjoying the art of our language in print simply because their brains are wired more sensibly than yours or mine.

Of course, I enjoy the baroque wiring of my brain, which enables me to appreciate words like baroque. And you do, too, DMW. But I also know that this is a luxury many people don&#39;t have.

hb8

P.S. I&#39;m surprised that no-one has picked up on the in-joke about ghoti. First person to cite it without googling it makes the honor roll. (Spelled honour, of course)
 

prepstudinsc

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Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper+Sep 18 2005, 11:14 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DoubleMeatWhopper &#064; Sep 18 2005, 11:14 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-prepstudinsc@Sep 18 2005, 07:22 PM
The real question is how are these students passing through elementary school and junior high or middle school not learning the basics of spelling?  Are their teachers that incompetent or do the just not care?

Ah, that. The sad fact is that the particular student whose spelling I described is our school&#39;s star running back. I am feeling pressure from some faculty members concerning his grades: he must maintain a certain grade point average to be allowed to play, or even practice. I&#39;m not backing down, and I have the principal&#39;s support. I have a responsibility to the students.
[post=344521]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]

The responsibility isto the students. Their lives are at stake. Who cares if they win the game next Friday night or not, however, if they can hold down a job and actually communicate with others in society (perhaps even read the road signs as they drive, read a menu, write a card to their mother, gf, wife, etc.) it might benefit them in the long term. If teachers are passing them to the next grade just because they need to keep up a certain GPA, it does nothing but hurt the student in the longterm and those teachers need to be reprimanded.
 

DC_DEEP

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I don&#39;t often comment on many of these threads, but this one is too good to pass up. Make that, "2 gud 2 pas up."

Simple, common, typos and misspellings are one thing; showing one&#39;s ignorance is another thing entirely. When a post has more spelling and grammatical errors than not, it is difficult and annoying even to try to read it, and the meaning more often than not gets completely lost. Ef u dont lik it than dont red it an go st8 2 enuthr post cuz i dont wunt u 2 tel me whut 2 do.

Simplifying the language is not as simple as it sounds. Phonetic spellings will present another stumbling block. When you go to get your car serviced, will they put in a quart of ol, oyel, or erl? Wooder or water in the radiator? After you pay, will your change include a kwatter, corder, or quarter? And will you drive home to Balmer or Baltimore? Is it a booful, beautiful, or berful city?

I agree with Freddie&#39;s earlier post. The ones who make the rules regarding what goes on in the classroom often have no experience with the classroom beyond being a student. When local rules and state and federal laws have the teacher doing most everything in the classroom EXCEPT teaching their subject, it is frustrating; then the TEACHER gets blamed when no teaching is occurring. The parents, to the largest degree, SHOULD be the ones held responsible.

Language IS important. Spelling and grammar are important. Online, without the visual and auditory cues, usage is our only indicator of the intelligence and maturity of those with whom we interact. And some of us don&#39;t really want to waste our time with immature, substandard intellects. That&#39;s not snobbery, it&#39;s common sense. "Master Bates masturbates&#33;" vs "Mastur Bates masterbates." Intriguing. Spelling nazis? I think those bastards are a bunch of bass turds.
 

prepstudinsc

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Originally posted by Freddie53@Sep 18 2005, 11:23 PM
In your last sentence, you mispelled the word they. You wrote "the" instead. Your mistake is the one that I make so often. The very same mistake and the very same word. There is a difference in typos and mispelled words. Also there are words that I have to stop and write out in long hand to spell. That is the way I learned how to spell.

<SNIP>

We all should all take the time to click "Preview Post" and read our post one more time. We all think we made no typos or mispelled words, but sadly many of us have. I typed "of the record" instead of "off the record." That is purely a typo eror. I do know how to spell "off."

So Monty I did find much humor in finding a typo in a post about having posts in good order before you click on "Add Reply."
[post=344524]Quoted post[/post]​

Freddie, I would be the last one to critique anyone&#39;s postings because yours are full of typos. Leaving off a y in they was a result of one of two things--either typing two fast (most likely) or that my wireless keyboard needs new batteries. I have noticed that sometimes it does drop letters as I type.

Big deal, I left off a y in the word they, you obviously knew what I meant. Do you want me to go through some of your posts quoting your typos? Don&#39;t get me started...

Anyway, my post was not about posts being in order, it was about teachers not teaching proper spelling or letting students pass when they COULD NOT or DID NOT spell properly. Go back and read.
 

prepstudinsc

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Originally posted by Freddie53@Sep 18 2005, 11:23 PM
If we want the best and brightest to be teachers, then we are going to have to pay what it takes to get the best and brightest to teach. I have seen incompetent teachers hired and off the record I was told that, "This isn&#39;t the person we wanted to hire, BUT this was the only applicant as every other school in the area was paying more." So we ended up with the teachers that no one else wanted. The people passed a millage rate increase and we went to the top in pay and in a few years, we had the best teachers as well.

[post=344524]Quoted post[/post]​

Do the teachers there work in a mill? I don&#39;t understand what millage is. Do you mean mileage rate?
 

prepstudinsc

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Originally posted by DC_DEEP@Sep 19 2005, 08:11 AM
I agree with Freddie&#39;s earlier post. The ones who make the rules regarding what goes on in the classroom often have no experience with the classroom beyond being a student. When local rules and state and federal laws have the teacher doing most everything in the classroom EXCEPT teaching their subject, it is frustrating; then the TEACHER gets blamed when no teaching is occurring. The parents, to the largest degree, SHOULD be the ones held responsible.

[post=344590]Quoted post[/post]​

The parents do ultimately have the responsibility, the sad thing is that many do not care. They plop their children in front of the television and let them do their thing while the parents go to work and go about their lives while the children fend for themselves. While I know that many parents have to work and that many familes are single parent families, that is still no excuse for the children not to have close parental interaction with the school and the child&#39;s learning process.
 

DC_DEEP

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Originally posted by headbang8+Sep 19 2005, 08:28 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(headbang8 &#064; Sep 19 2005, 08:28 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DC_DEEP@Sep 19 2005, 09:11 PM
I think those bastards are a bunch of bass turds.
[post=344590]Quoted post[/post]​
As opposed to treble turds? You see, without context I don&#39;t quite know what you mean.

Love ya,

hb8
[post=344598]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]
Nah, don&#39;t think musically here, think "fish." Ha, I know, I know. You understood and wanted to make a point. Which makes my point.

{...having this disturbing image of a striped (not stripped) bass fish playing a base (as opposed to spiritual) guitar...}

Again, simpler to learn the language correctly, rather than to simplify the language.
 

DC_DEEP

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Originally posted by prepstudinsc+Sep 19 2005, 08:23 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prepstudinsc &#064; Sep 19 2005, 08:23 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Freddie53@Sep 18 2005, 11:23 PM
If we want the best and brightest to be teachers, then we are going to have to pay what it takes to get the best and brightest to teach. I have seen incompetent teachers hired and off the record I was told that, "This isn&#39;t the person we wanted to hire, BUT this was the only applicant as every other school in the area was paying more."  So we ended up with the teachers that no one else wanted. The people passed a millage rate increase and we went to the top in pay and in a few years, we had the best teachers as well.

[post=344524]Quoted post[/post]​

Do the teachers there work in a mill? I don&#39;t understand what millage is. Do you mean mileage rate?
[post=344595]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]
Millage rate is a tax. Percent is one-hundredth. Millage is one-thousandth. Many school districts assess property taxes in this manner. For instance, if your real and personal property assessed value is &#036;100,000 and your millage rate is 4, then your tax would be &#036;400.