Sports & Modesty

[fratpack]

Both in HS and College I played sports and never once did I think there was something wrong with communal showers...I just wanted to get the grime and all off me and not get it on with some teammate. I will add however that in some way it does seem to add to the bonding as teammates, all defenses down and all that.
Stick to your guns Jake!

 

[Guy@naPrince]

...I can say for sure I was better off getting over the naked thing at an early age. Tell this coach that showering together is better for self esteem or something positive. My godbro says gang-hall showers are cleaner because it's less places for bacteria to gather- tell your @$$hole coach that.

They are cleaner or easier to clean, according to the health officials in 's town. Apparently, somebody had a problem with the gang showers at 's kid's school back in the 80s, and an investigation revealed the older, gang hall units were quicker to clean and held less germs than the 'newer' stall arrangements. In spite of all that, the school had them redone with partitions, later on; then, redone again in spring of '06, ditching the partitions to save money on the upgrade.

Anyway, the principal got his hands on that old report and gets to keep the new, open-air showers, after the parents damn near shut the school down. The battle's over, and will be kicking ass on the field again.

And God bless America.

 

[baseball99]

i find it strange people get all worked up about this anyways. Who cares if someone showers or not. Last I checked sports and coaches taught players about teamwork, discipline, compeition, etc. I did not ever have a coach that made it a personal vendetta to get me to show my dick to everyone. I swam in HS and college, as well as played soccer. I showered occasionally.....I dont feel i bonded more when i showered with my cock out for everyone to see than when i showered with my speedo on.

Of course growing up and being comfortable with your body is important but your persistence seems like it could almost be damaging to a young developing mind just as much. If someone is trully uncomfortable showering for whatever reason, what right do you have to force them to? Maybe they were raped, maybe something else is going on, you have no idea.

If a coach ever insisted that i get naked and shower i probably would have looked at him and said i joined the swim team/soccer team.....you coach me in regards to those, dont worry about me, my cock and showering.....and like i said i was liberal in the showers and never really cared. Its just funny bc i can think of so many guys that shower with a speedo on after swim practice and no one thought anything of it at all. It almost seems like you borerline infatuation with nude showering

 

[Guy@naPrince]

Don't know about how obsessed we are, but, there's definitely resentment here. Basically, I think folks from my generation (35-40 and older) are taken aback by all of the negative aspersions being cast on sports-related hygeine, these days.

I think we resent the fact that a few inhibited people have turned something we grew up with into a dangerous, unhealthy and perverted enterprise, just to make their own insecurities appear normal or mainstream. We resent the implication that our enjoyment of it - the towel fights, lude jokes, horsing around, etc - was anything more than simple, goofy fun that guys've shared since the damn Pyramids.

I also think, in a nutshell, we just resent being judged negatively by a generation that clearly doesn't understand who we were and is not without its own character challenges. Like the old saying goes, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

The shower thing is just an example of this in my opinion.

My two cents.

 

[baseball99]

Don't know about how obsessed we are, but, there's definitely resentment here. Basically, I think folks from my generation (35-40 and older) are taken aback by all of the negative aspersions being cast on sports-related hygeine, these days.

I think we resent the fact that a few inhibited people have turned something we grew up with into a dangerous, unhealthy and perverted enterprise, just to make their own insecurities appear normal or mainstream. We resent the implication that our enjoyment of it - the towel fights, lude jokes, horsing around, etc - was anything more than simple, goofy fun that guys've shared since the damn Pyramids.

I also think, in a nutshell, we just resent being judged negatively by a generation that clearly doesn't understand who we were and is not without its own character challenges. Like the old saying goes, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

The shower thing is just an example of this in my opinion.

My two cents.

I agree that all that is fun in a lockerroom but i dispute that its required for normal growth and development. Like i said, i shower and i really dont care. I also call people out of theyre doin more than a quick check me out.

I think the people who are weird enough to shower with underwear on or go so far as covering every single inch of their body are as strange as the people proclaiming showering nude is what made them who they are today

What I'm confused about tho, is your generation si the one who has the kids now?!?! So technically its this generation who was so comfortable bein nude who has made kids who are afraid of it? I see that as very strange

 

[eyemready]

BOGUS!!!!!! This guy is trying to bust your balls and hint that wrestlers or swimmers are gay, whereas baseball/basketball players aren't. Fight him. This whole wierd unhealthy privacy about showers & pissing is just crap. (I was tempted to call it girly, but if he hassles you, tell him promoting neurotic wierdness about privacy in a lockerroom contributes to the feminization of males. That might slow him down.)

We need more common sense about nudity in the puritanical states, not less. Naked bodies do not mean a thing, and there is nothing that makes a dick more sacred than a nose. Idiot politicians like to pretend that catching a glimpse of a naked body is far worse than violence or injustice or economic strangleholds. That is pure political theater. The reality is that a naked body is just a naked body.

Why don't you see if you can re-introduce naked swimming like they had in the glory days while you're at it? Seems to me it didn't hurt the "greatest generation" very much. Unless of course people were real men back then who could handle the sight of a dick and we are all traumatized nuns.

Excellent and thoughtful reply!

 

[stanley9]

Don't know about how obsessed we are, but, there's definitely resentment here. Basically, I think folks from my generation (35-40 and older) are taken aback by all of the negative aspersions being cast on sports-related hygeine, these days.

I think we resent the fact that a few inhibited people have turned something we grew up with into a dangerous, unhealthy and perverted enterprise, just to make their own insecurities appear normal or mainstream. We resent the implication that our enjoyment of it - the towel fights, lude jokes, horsing around, etc - was anything more than simple, goofy fun that guys've shared since the damn Pyramids.

I also think, in a nutshell, we just resent being judged negatively by a generation that clearly doesn't understand who we were and is not without its own character challenges. Like the old saying goes, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

The shower thing is just an example of this in my opinion.

My two cents.

So true. It does seem as though time has a general shift toward less expression. In the early and mid 90's, gym clothing, for example, had a wider range. There were shorts and t shirts like today, but there was also tighter fitting shorts and pants. Confident, in shape guys didn't worry about revealing thier anatomy. Now, the standard dress across the board, is the big loose long baggie shorts, big t shirts. But woman have taken up the form fitting wear. They can work out in what is essentially the female counterpart of a jock strap, the sports bra. Maybe it's just a phase, as all fashion inevitably passes through.

 

[jeff black]

Regardless of how ANYONE feels, it really is up to the Coaches and the school.

Not everyone is comfortable with running round naked in highschool. Some kids develop late. Some aren't comfortable being naked.

Let them get the stalls. It is that simple.

 

[baseball99]

Regardless of how ANYONE feels, it really is up to the Coaches and the school.

Not everyone is comfortable with running round naked in highschool. Some kids develop late. Some aren't comfortable being naked.

Let them get the stalls. It is that simple.

I agree.....although exposure may be beneficial to some kids it might not be for all and you may actually induce self-esteem issues rather than solving them. For some it may be more beneficial to allow the stalls but always make the opportunity available to partake

 

[hedonic]

Is there a connection?
I added this to a thread on open showers.
The administration wanted coaches input on the current showers/locker room set up. It is very open with the showers and there is one large troth for pissing in. I like it very much as does the football coach and the swim coach.
The baseball, basketball and tennis coaches all think it is too open and their athletes would like privacy when naked.
This started a debate where the basketball coach said to me "Of course you are comfortable with it, you are a wrestler and a wrestling coach"
Are different sports athletes more modest with their bodies?
I wrestled and played rugby and football all my life. Are basketball or baseball players more shy with nudity?
Jake

Hedonic here mate. Whenever I see nudity with the bum or cock pixilated on tv, I say, of course, it was filmed in the US. Aussies are much more relaxed and show it all on the tele. So, you're just living in the wrong country mate. There is no debate on subjects like that here, we'd rather drink piss and debate about who is going to win the footy. Cheers.

 

[SlickWilly]

this issue always cracks me up...

I was never one of the "bolder" types in my school days. I was quite shy in fact. In elementary school, the first time we had to "dress" for gym class, I nearly fell over trying to keep covered up... but I GOT OVER IT!

When we had to start showering in junior high, I was extremely nervous at first, but I GOT OVER IT!

In college, my fraternity house had no stalls at all... none in the showers, none between the toilets, none between the urinals... just one big room to take care of your business. Yea, it was awkward at first having someone take a dump right next to you, but you know what... I GOT OVER IT!

Now, when I go to the gym, I shower to clean up. I'm not in the shape I once was, but it's not like everyone in the locker room hasn't seen someone naked before. I'm no Adonis. But I'm also not ashamed of myself or afraid of being naked in front of others. Plus, I've reached the age where I just don't care what people think any more. I think people would be a lot healthier upstairs if they worried a little less about someone seeing their downstairs.

No, I never liked it at first, but just because I was forced to do something I didn't want to, I was NOT scarred for life! I think those who are coddled & protected all their (early) lives are the scarred ones. It's a tough world out there... & we all already have enough hangups.

All this overprotection by parents, administrators, etc. mystifies me. I know a lot of it is born out of lawsuits ad nauseum, but where did all this shame come from? Seems to me it's all part of helping the kids form a normal, healthy image of themselves and their bodies. Yes, kids can be extremely cruel- especially to those who develop later than their peers. Yes, it sucks, but kids need to learn how to deal with those situations. Over-protecting them is doing more harm than good. Life is full of obstacles & uncomfortable instances that kids need to learn to deal with. It's all part of the process known as "growing up".

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents worth... off the soapbox for now.

 

[Guy@naPrince]

Regardless of how ANYONE feels, it really is up to the Coaches and the school.

Not everyone is comfortable with running round naked in highschool. Some kids develop late. Some aren't comfortable being naked.

Let them get the stalls. It is that simple.

Here's a list of things that made me nervous and uncomfortable, at various times during my childhood:

large groups of loud black people
large groups of loud white people
large groups
old buildings
feces (my own or yours)
open sores
bald people, like Kojak
DC newscaster, Davey Marvin Jones
bare feet
sick people
amputees
torn clothing
grass (lawn variety)
trees
being outside
my own FATHER

That's the SHORT list.

Well, what about my self esteem? My comfort zones? Nobody protected me from any of the above, and I lived. I didn't jump off a building or wind up in the booby hatch. In fact, if I showed the slightest fear or unease around these things, I was given a good, firm swat on the butt and set down right in the middle of them. I survived.

What's the problem? How did we become so delicate?

It's not so simple, I'm afraid.

There's a price to pay for indulging fear and anxiety over common sense. There's a big difference between nurturing self-esteem and indulging vanity, self-centeredness and egomania. This idea that we must be protected from anything that makes us a little uncomfortable is what's dangerous and unhealthy.

Shame and fear are not innately destructive. What's destructive is how, too often, we give ourselves license to run away from these things, instead of facing them head-on. At some point, we have to ask ourselves if we are making better, stronger people, when we teach our children to hide from adversity.

Someone mentioned above that is in fact our generation that's indulging these things. I think it's important to remind ourselves that we are allowing a few scared, vane people to define normalcy for us and for our kids. We are making a choice, when we don't stand up to them - when we don't swat them on the butt and send them on their way.

The whole, stupid shower debate is just an example of our frustration with things.

I didn't get to hide from anything. Neither should you.

 

[Guy@naPrince]

The tone of that last post really got from under me, Jeff Black. I apologize for not clarifying above how great a point you raised and how much it got me thinking about all this. I think the tone could be misinterpreted as salty or mocking, and I regret that.

I'll add this and bail on this topic altogether. It's been my experience that neglect follows shame most surely.

When we're ashamed of people close to us, we tend to neglect or avoid them, like a retarded cousin you keep in the basement. When we're ashamed of our communities, we grow distant from them, and the community falls to ruin, because we forget what it means to care about it or the people, who live there.

I think, when we become ashamed of ourselves, we tend to neglect ourselves. Being ashamed of our identities, who we are, ensures that we will hide who we are from ourselves and the world around us. Shame of the body in any state is ultimately the ruin of the body in every state, as it becomes something we're trapped in and are unduly burdened by - so, we neglect care of it.

Take it from someone coming down from three hundred and fifty pounds. Neglect begins with shame, and not the other way around.

It's been spaggy reading all of the posts here, and each one wakes us all up just a little bit more.

 

[jeff black]

The tone of that last post really got from under me, Jeff Black. I apologize for not clarifying above how great a point you raised and how much it got me thinking about all this. I think the tone could be misinterpreted as salty or mocking, and I regret that.

I'll add this and bail on this topic altogether. It's been my experience that neglect follows shame most surely.

When we're ashamed of people close to us, we tend to neglect or avoid them, like a retarded cousin you keep in the basement. When we're ashamed of our communities, we grow distant from them, and the community falls to ruin, because we forget what it means to care about it or the people, who live there.

I think, when we become ashamed of ourselves, we tend to neglect ourselves. Being ashamed of our identities, who we are, ensures that we will hide who we are from ourselves and the world around us. Shame of the body in any state is ultimately the ruin of the body in every state, as it becomes something we're trapped in and are unduly burdened by - so, we neglect care of it.

Take it from someone coming down from three hundred and fifty pounds. Neglect begins with shame, and not the other way around.

It's been spaggy reading all of the posts here, and each one wakes us all up just a little bit more.

Never Run, Guy.

I won't back down from a Post.. and neither should you.

You are right...why SHOULD kids get to hide?? The fact is...they should because they have the RIGHT to not get naked if they feel insecure.

While I am all for kids who are willing to strip in the locker room, I know a few (myself included) who needed time to grow and become comfortable with themselves before they got to that naked stage.:biggrin1: Having kids inteh locker room, who MAY have made fun... would have hindered that practice. IT is why I support the Option of having showers that are sheltered.

Thanks for your response, Guy.

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

Here's a list of things that made me nervous and uncomfortable, at various times during my childhood:

large groups of loud black people
large groups of loud white people
large groups
old buildings
feces (my own or yours)
open sores
bald people, like Kojak
DC newscaster, Davey Marvin Jones
bare feet
sick people
amputees
torn clothing
grass (lawn variety)
trees
being outside
my own FATHER

That's the SHORT list.

Well, what about my self esteem? My comfort zones? Nobody protected me from any of the above, and I lived. I didn't jump off a building or wind up in the booby hatch. In fact, if I showed the slightest fear or unease around these things, I was given a good, firm swat on the butt and set down right in the middle of them. I survived.

What's the problem? How did we become so delicate?

It's not so simple, I'm afraid.

There's a price to pay for indulging fear and anxiety over common sense. There's a big difference between nurturing self-esteem and indulging vanity, self-centeredness and egomania. This idea that we must be protected from anything that makes us a little uncomfortable is what's dangerous and unhealthy.

Shame and fear are not innately destructive. What's destructive is how, too often, we give ourselves license to run away from these things, instead of facing them head-on. At some point, we have to ask ourselves if we are making better, stronger people, when we teach our children to hide from adversity.

Someone mentioned above that is in fact our generation that's indulging these things. I think it's important to remind ourselves that we are allowing a few scared, vane people to define normalcy for us and for our kids. We are making a choice, when we don't stand up to them - when we don't swat them on the butt and send them on their way.

The whole, stupid shower debate is just an example of our frustration with things.

I didn't get to hide from anything. Neither should you.

Aside from the context of the post (a disagreement with a poster whose opinion I respect), this articulates something I have observed in increasing amounts the past twenty years. Not a good trend, IMO.

 

[baseball99]

you cant force kids to remove their defense mechanisms. You can counsel and provide the environment, however, they have to come to it on their own terms. By forcing them to do so you have the potential to harm mentally many more than you will help.

I know what people are thinking.....they just need to deal with it.....spend a day volunteering in an outpatient psychiatry office. You will be surprised at the sheer number of patients. The majority will have clinical depression.....many more anxiety. These are people who just cant deal with it and the vast majority are from the "greatest generation".....Obviously they dont have properly instilled defense mechanisms

I think just providing the environment and asking why is merely enough. Forcing a kid to do that is along the same lines of forcing a straight guy to experience gay sex just because its common practice some places.....

 

[Guy@naPrince]

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me BACK IN! :tongue:

I'm not getting this at all. Maybe, I'm just senile or stupid, but, this line of reasoning sounds pretty backward to me and nothing less than licensed cowardice. A bad trend, indeed.

Pussy 101.

Were we so delicate? Were we less deserving of being coddled and sheltered? Where is the justification for all of this? What scientific evidence has anyone produced showing that people today are mentally and otherwise frailer and more in need of protection.

If something's hard, don't bother with it.

If something's scary, run like hell or go watch Oprah. Hide behind your mommy.

If something hurts, scream like a baby. Enduring is unhealthy.

We'd all be flying a Union Jack from the Capitol, if we'd thought like this a few hundred years ago. Knowing history even casually, how can anyone call this progress?

Dammit, why can't I shut up?

 

[TitanicJake]

I think people would be a lot healthier upstairs if they worried a little less about someone seeing their downstairs.

That quote cracked me up! So friggen true.

I only made them shower before & after wrestling practice during one week of camp. Now school has started and all shyness is gone. We are a team and they seem comfortable naked, ina jock strap, in a singlet, and in the showers. We concentrate on wrestling and not on any other distractions.
Jake
PS The swim coach and football coach and I won. The big open shower room stays. It is just plain cleaner and easier to keep an eye on the boys.

 

[ajay38]

I have a feeling that this is all about American men and the puritanical shame that lurks in the hearts of a good deal of us boys born in theUS of A. It took me years and a good deal of self esteem building to overcome the fear of walking around naked. MY years in the Coast Guard aboard ships freed me of any vestiges of that silly shame that I had grown up with. When you have to shower, shit, shave, bathe and pee in the open for months while at sea you learn that everyone is basically the same. Of course there was a great deal of grabassing going on in the showers. Maybe that is what everyone is afraid of. In my opinion we in the states have a long way to go to overcome that puritanical streak, and the rampant homophobia in our culture. As for the guys I see at the gym who come in, work out and change back into there street clothes all sweaty I have to say....yuck! IMHO

 

[kurios]

I think being pushed into showering with your classmates at an early age and being forced to have a homosexual encounter are just a tad different!!!!!!!!