Stand Up and Be Counted

[Lex]

I found this within a Musclbear's profile on BMB and it made me think;

*ON CLOSET CASES: We live in a world where gays are discriminated against, jailed and beaten to death. As long as this injustice still occurs, every gay person has the duty to stand up and be counted, especially those in the public eye. It’s the only way that true change is possible. Was the death of Matthew Shepard worth staying in the closet?

THE LIST
Troy Aikman, Prince Andrew, Jim Baker (televangelist), Anderson Cooper, Tom Cruise, Ted Danson, Vin Diesel, Barry Diller, Matt Drudge, Julio Eglesias, Emilio Estefan, Richard Gere, David Gest (Liza’s ex), Robin Gibb, Hugh Grant, Merv Griffin, Arsenio Hall, Earl Holliman, Tab Hunter, William Hurt, Pope John Paul II, Jasper Johns, Ellsworth Kelly, Ed Koch (former NYC mayor), Matt LeBlanc, Lee Majors (the 6 million dollar man), Johnny Mathis, Ricky Martin, Roddy McDowell, Eddie Murphy, Mike Piazza, Robert Rauschenberg, Keanu Reeves, Burt Reynolds, Ryan Seacrest, John Secada, Neil Sedaka, Tom Selleck, Siegfried & Roy, Kevin Spacey, Richard Simmons, Patrick Stewart, Ian Thorpe (Olympic Swimmer), John Travolta, Mike Tyson

Bea Arthur, Anne Bancroft, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Missy Elliott, Gloria Estefan, Jody Foster, Helen Hunt, Queen Latifah, Annie Leibowitz, Kristy McNichol, Dolly Parton, Suzanne Pleshette, Janet Reno, Condoleeza Rice, Mary Steenburgen, Oprah Winfrey

So, what do you guys think? Should any of these people (if secretly queer) stand up and be counted? What is their responsiblity to all of us (in the queer nation) to do so?

How do we convine a little girl she can be President when there are not female presidents? Or the little Black boy who wants to be Vice President? Or the gay kids that wants to be a successful pop star or actor? Does silence empower the disporportional under-respresentation of like people in prominent positions?!?

Queen Latifah, for example, has never said she is NOT gay. She does not get seen with men. She actually uses her ambiguity to her professional advantage I think.

Interesting. Your thoughts?

 

[BuddyBoy]

Didn't Tab Hunter come out in his Autobiography last year?

 

[Dr Rock]

has anyone ever given any credence to the idea that tom selleck might NOT be gay? :biggrin1:

 

[BuddyBoy]

has anyone ever given any credence to the idea that tom selleck might NOT be gay? :biggrin1:

Not after I saw In and Out. I don't think straight men CAN kiss like that. Wow!

 

[ChuckRich]

David Gest, Ricky Martin, Sigfried & Roy, Richard Simmons, Janet Reno : Everyone already knows they're gay so there's no need for them to say it, they're already being counted whether they stand up or not.

Johnny Mathis, Roddy McDowell, Missy Elliot: I thought they were out.

 

[Matthew]

Missy Elliott's not out, as far as I know.

I think it's important for celebrities to come out, but politicians are the ones who have a responsibility to do so ... especially the ones who choose to vote against gay rights. The latter need to be outed, IMO.

 

[mindseye]

There are two extra letters in the title of this thread, so I've edited it.

I don't believe that anyone -- politician, celebrity, or otherwise -- should be obligated to reveal any aspect of their personal life that they don't feel comfortable revealing. Blaming Matthew Shepard on people staying in the closet is just plain dumb. If, on the other hand, someone is publicly claiming to be not gay (horrors!) while having same-sex encounters, then I think it's reasonable to discredit them.

In other words, I'll support anyone's right to say nothing regarding their sexuality, but I don't support their right to lie about it.

However, the writer of that profile is engaged in a lot of wishful thinking.

 

[Matthew]

I don't believe that anyone -- politician, celebrity, or otherwise -- should be obligated to reveal any aspect of their personal life that they don't feel comfortable revealing.

So Mindseye -- a closeted gay politician votes against gay rights, doing untold harm to us and our communities. We know they're queer, but we should keep their secret?

 

[mindseye]

This closeted gay politician hasn't made any public remarks one way or the other about his own sexuality? Hasn't even taken an opposite-sex spouse? Doesn't wear a wedding ring on the legislative floor?

Do you have a real person in mind, or is this a hypothetical question?

 

[Matthew]

Do you have a real person in mind, or is this a hypothetical question?

It's a hypothetical, although I'm sure it's true of a few at least. One example was Steve Gunderson (R-WI) before he came (was forced) out.

 

[Chuck64]

From my perspective, I think being a celebrity is immaterial to some degree. Being a partial closet case myself, I can't expect anything more from anyone else - celebrity or otherwise. I don't post anything that indicates my sexuality (one way or the other - I don't "play it straight") on my personal blog or myspace.com. I have extended family, family friends, and business contacts who have no idea.

We shouldn't expect celebrities or politicians to bust down their closet doors and streak through a pride event singing "I will survive." If they keep things ambiguous, that's their right. They shouldn't "play it straight" or work against us. This includes all of the things that Mindseye pointed out.

I personally think that the gay community has a responsibility to out any celebrity or politician who works against us, on the grounds of exposing hypocrisy more than anything else.

 

[Charles Finn]

what about barney Frank he has been strangely silent

 

[Matthew]

what about barney Frank he has been strangely silent

Barney Frank is WAY OUT and has been for many years.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Ah, the horrible beauty of the vicious cycle: People don't change their attitudes because ALL gays do not come out and stand up for their right to exist. ALL gays do not come out and stand up for their right to exist because people will not change their attitudes.

Lex, you have a tainted view of the situation, living where you do. I'm not saying that homophobia does not exist in your area, just that a gay person in a metropolitan area has more options than a person in Montana, or rural Arkansas, or Anysmalltown, America. If you have never been a high school student in a town of less than 20,000, you just cannot have a clue what it is like.

I wish all non-heterosexuals would come out, but in most cases it is not my place to out them. I will make exceptions for anyone who actively oppresses homosexuals, but engages in those behaviors themselves. People like that DESERVE the utmost in humiliation and punishment. (For what it is worth, I feel the same way about lawmakers/lobbyists who push for stiffer drunk driving laws, and are subsequently caught driving drunk, anti-gay-marriage activists who have ever been divorced, etc on down the line.)

 

[Onslow]

I found this within a Musclbear's profile on BMB and it made me think;



So, what do you guys think? Should any of these people (if secretly queer) stand up and be counted? What is their responsiblity to all of us (in the queer nation) to do so?

How do we convine a little girl she can be President when there are not female presidents? Or the little Black boy who wants to be Vice President? Or the gay kids that wants to be a successful pop star or actor? Does silence empower the disporportional under-respresentation of like people in prominent positions?!?


Interesting. Your thoughts?

It is each person's own right to make the decision of saying that they are homosexual or not. There is no reason for them to stand up and be counted if they do not want to be. Once you start outing celebs and politicians the witch hunt then moves on to Joe Q. Citizen living next door or down the road. Maybe if people did not place so much importance on a persons sexuality, then, the difficulty people have with homosexuals and bisexuals and others would not be so great.

Interesting how you drag race, gender and sexuality into one post. And for the record Lex, even though there is not currently a female President in the U.S.A. they do exist in other countries so little girls know there is possibility and here in the U.S.A. women have become Senators, Governors and Mayors and won other political offices, so again, little girls know that they can achieve things.

Last thing--and I know this will rile many persons including perhaps you; but, that is how it goes sometimes--until you are no longer married to a woman, I do not think that I would fully classify you as part of "Queer Nation" as you put it. If you wish to be so classified, then you need to step out of the closet fully yourself. How can you criticize the others when you haven't taken that big step? I realize you love your wife and may consider yourself to be bisexual, which is fine by me, but QueerWorld doesn't need another half ass attempt at being queer. I played that sick game for far too long and too many people got hurt. I left 2 wonderful women in the pile of debris and made my 3 children go through the pains as well. If you are bisexual then that is what you are, but that does not garner you a spot in Queer Nation. (and for the record, Queer Nation itself is a rather derogatory and discriminative term). Hetero/Bi/Homo--labeling ourselves does nothing to improve things.

 

[mindseye]

To answer your question, then -- if they haven't made any statements regarding their sexuality, I'd oppose them for political reasons, but would have a lot of trouble with 'outing' them.

Voting against gay rights is unamerican, regardless of the orientation of the person doing the voting. We shouldn't have to resort to smear tactics to make that case. (And really, what's the point if the voters replace a gay homophobic Congressman with a straight homophobic Congressman?)


With regard to Gunderson (who was outed by a member of his own party, not by us), here's his own story, as told in an interview:

Betty: And you were out when you were elected or re-elected?

Gunderson: Not when I was first elected because, frankly, I was elected at a young enough age [he was 29 --Heath] that I was still trying to go through all that stuff and figure out who I was and what my orientation was.

Would you advocate outing someone who hadn't even figured it out for himself? The HRC, incidentally, gave Gunderson a 57% voting record on gay-rights issues over his career before he came out, which isn't as high as I'd like, but doesn't quite meet the "untold harm" standard you hypotheized. Ed Schrock had a zero before he was outed (and retired).

 

[lifewillkillyou]

How do we convine a little girl she can be President when there are not female presidents? Or the little Black boy who wants to be Vice President? Or the gay kids that wants to be a successful pop star or actor? Does silence empower the disporportional under-respresentation of like people in prominent positions?!?

Interesting. Your thoughts?[/quote]

Hilary will be president. Queen (the band) was greatly loved by all, even more after he died from AIDS (what of the knighted Elton John?), (not a racial comment, please be open minded) black polititions will advance far, the minute they stop blaming white people for the percived way the black community is and get the people to want to advance through their own endevours. The gay socitety has more support and backing now more than ever.

 

[D_alex8]

Tab Hunter indeed outed himself in his autobiography.

Siegfried & Roy are certainly out, at least in the German media.

And Roddy McDowell was always out, although he is now dead, and so more of a misnomer even than others on the list.

 

[Matthew]

Would you advocate outing someone who hadn't even figured it out for himself? The HRC, incidentally, gave Gunderson a 57% voting record on gay-rights issues over his career before he came out, which isn't as high as I'd like, but doesn't quite meet the "untold harm" standard you hypotheized. Ed Schrock had a zero before he was outed (and retired).

First of all, from the Queer Wisconsin gossip when I lived there, I don't think it's true that Gunderson "hadn't figured it out yet," I think that has a justification/cover story. But back to the point at hand - a closet case acting to harm gay communities and at the same time counting on those he's hurting to protect his secret? HELL NO! Throw the bastards out.

 

[Thedrewbert]

Anderson Cooper - already quite open about it.
Vin Diesel - no scandle there, commonly known
Matt Drudge - highly unlikely
David Gest (Liza’s ex) - like we need him to actually say it.
Pope John Paul II - Ok, this is just stupid... the man is dead
Matt LeBlanc - he wishes
Ricky Martin - again... wishes
Siegfried & Roy - already out
Richard Simmons - does he need flash cards? Do we really need Richard Simmons to tell us he's gay!?!

He forgot Nathan Lane.