Str8 guys hooking up at the gym.

[jacero10]

This is the part that I don't understand. If your girlfriend believes that the two of you are in an exclusive relationship and you're having sex (oral or any other) outside of that without her knowledge, you are cheating. If she knows what you're doing, that's a different thing. But if you've been carrying on with these dudes and she has no clue, it's cheating.

Have you told her about your activities? If not, do you think she would leave you if she knew?

I agree with you. It doesnt make sense. She doesn't have a lot of hangups and has had a couple of experiences with women. We have broached the subject in general and she has no problems with bisexuality or gays. Just not sure what she would say about me. I am not good at secrets and will find the time to bring it up. Again, I'm not saying my position makes sense or defending it.

 

[zawfi]

Interesting thread, jacero. Makes me wish I were in college and single again, although when I was in college, I was in denial about my sexual interest in guys. (I had had sex with a couple of guys, starting in high school, but by college I tried to suppress it. After college, I got back to having fun and allowing myself to be me.)

What are you studying, by the way?

 

[D_Relentless Original]

Wow, now that's a great question! My best friend knows that I've had my dick sucked a few times by guys. He was kinda surprised, but is cool with it, he says. Hasn't changed anything with him anyway. (We're still close and he hasnt run away or dropped to his knees!) But, I haven't really told him how often I've been getting off with dudes. If I were gay, he'd be cool with that, so I will tell him about it eventually. But, I haven't gone and talked with all my buddies about it. It's more of a best friend kinda thing, I think.

My gf is another question. We have a pretty undefined relationship. It's like really good friends with benefits. I would not cheat on her with another woman. But, somehow getting sucked by guys is different. It doesnt feel like cheating.

Great thread jacero. I just struggle with the last post about " it doesn't feel like cheating ", i am not argueing with you seriously, but surely it is cheating if is outside the relationship and the other person does not know ? whether it is with a man or woman.
Maybe it is just my own values which i don't mean to inflict on you or anyone. just confused by that comment pal.

 

[musclebare9]

I agree that there is plenty missing! You fail to mention anything about the other 70%. It sounds like 3% gay, 30% gay or bisexual and 70% straight.

I think there is plenty missing from your idea of male sexuality. This isn't just a matter of linguistic definitions.

Some 30% of men have had sexual contact with other men to the point of orgasm. Only about 3% are exclusively gay. Of the 30% who have had sex with men, most marry and only had sex with other men as an experiment or as a phase.

You know, we all have the right to define ourselves. If you dont get my self definition, that's fine. It just isnt your place to force your labels on my sexuality which is a very intimate and personal matter.

Just as you have the right to define yourself, others will naturally put a label on you. I am sure by now that you have labeled me. Neither NJQT or I have anything against bisexual or gay people. NJQT has plenty of posts to prove that. I think that she was merely pointing out that the 70% of men previously mentioned along with who knows what percentage of women will label you as gay if you are regularly sucking cock or attempting to get other men to suck your cock. You may have defined yourself but it doesn't match up with the definition that the majority is using.

 

[cocktoberfest]

So, we may call it just semantics, but in reality "straight guys hooking up" - by definition - glosses over an example of men doing things that gay men are hated for, all the while having a way not to take any of the heat for it.

read "the rise and fall of gay culture" then let it go. the fact is, many men who like men - in whatever way and however they define themselves - do not want to be associated with the larger gay culture and its collective identity.

 

[jacero10]

I agree that there is plenty missing! You fail to mention anything about the other 70%. It sounds like 3% gay, 30% gay or bisexual and 70% straight.





Just as you have the right to define yourself, others will naturally put a label on you. I am sure by now that you have labeled me. Neither NJQT or I have anything against bisexual or gay people. NJQT has plenty of posts to prove that. I think that she was merely pointing out that the 70% of men previously mentioned along with who knows what percentage of women will label you as gay if you are regularly sucking cock or attempting to get other men to suck your cock. You may have defined yourself but it doesn't match up with the definition that the majority is using.

Fair enough as far as it goes. It is just rude however for one to assume they can correct somebody else about his own sexuality. There are different ways to use these very crude labels.

Myself as an example. If percentage of gay/straight were measured by time period of sexual activity, I would be 85% straight at least. If physical arousal at looking at men vs. women, I would be 90% straight. If it is by total partners I would be 80% gay. If it is by emotional investment I would be 100% straight. If it is by which sex feels better sucking my dick, I would be 50/50. If it is about who you like to fuck or have fucked, I would be 99% straight. If it is about sexual interests with men v women, I would be 95% straight cause I do a lot more shit with women and really only get into being sucked by guys.

I consider myself straight because I am exclusively attracted emotionally to women, only somewhat interested in men physically and basically just allow guys to suck my dick cause it feels just as good. Besides, the "naughtiness" factor is also pretty high, which turns me on. And naughtiness for me knows no gender. Getting blown by a chick in her parents house is just about as good as getting blown by a dude in his parents house. But all things being equal the naughty factor is a bit higher with a guy.

Again, there is also a generational difference with this. Younger guys just aren't into the labels as older generations are. The old striaght/bi/gay labels are just breaking down all over the place. It really is a new world.

 

[jacero10]

read "the rise and fall of gay culture" then let it go. the fact is, many men who like men - in whatever way and however they define themselves - do not want to be associated with the larger gay culture and its collective identity.

Good point. I would just add that I dont have a problem with gay culture. It just isn't me. I am just not interested in it or attracted to it. But, I dont judge it and have no fear or discomfort with it. Gay culture has nothing for me, though the Gay Community does have plenty of talented dick suckers!!

There is a lot of talk of the decline of the gay subculture. As younger gays are much more mainstream in their tastes, social networks, etc., they are certainly moving into gayborhoods at a decreasing rate. I dont know anyone in their mid 20's who has moved to a gayborhood. (But, I admit I have nothing to compare that to.) The decline in the gay subculture is another factor in the coming "Post-Gay" world.

 

[bstexas]

great. and jacero, ur making many intelligent comments. love all the sexual percentages in the last thread. it makes sense to rate the str8ness/gayness by all those factors. impressive calculating.

as for the gf thing, if u r in an open relationship, then do what u wanna do. some people never cross that line. and just as they feel they NEED to define percentages for str8ness/gayness, then they'll NEED to define what's cheating or not.

and i definitely agree with you about the generational aspects of labels. i have friends who work with younger adults/adolescents and they say the same thing. the younger generations are much more open and less into labels.

in my own family, my two bros and i are gay (go figure). i'm the baby (lol). my oldest bro has a partner and lives about two miles from his ex wife and her bf. my niece and nephew (15 and 21) are so cool about the whole thing. my nephew told me last year "i can't tell a person who they can fall in love with.". I thought that was very adult and also very open.

by the way, i'd probably be one of the ones looking at ur cock in the gym (tho that's not a place I've ever hooked up). But I'd enjoy looking there. lol

 

[jacero10]

Great thread jacero. I just struggle with the last post about " it doesn't feel like cheating ", i am not argueing with you seriously, but surely it is cheating if is outside the relationship and the other person does not know ? whether it is with a man or woman.
Maybe it is just my own values which i don't mean to inflict on you or anyone. just confused by that comment pal.

Thanks for the comment, Tardis, and the gentle way you put it.

I should not have said that having sex with guys is really different. Morally, it is not. And, I am in the wrong on this. (Though it is true that it feels different.) I am going to have to deal with this soon. Thanks again.

 

[jacero10]

Interesting thread, jacero. Makes me wish I were in college and single again, although when I was in college, I was in denial about my sexual interest in guys. (I had had sex with a couple of guys, starting in high school, but by college I tried to suppress it. After college, I got back to having fun and allowing myself to be me.)

What are you studying, by the way?

Glad you got back to yourself, zaw.

Sociology of religion with particular interest in animism, though I am not an animist!

 

[musclebare9]

Is it really? Could this just be geographical? Maybe the younger generation has learned to play within the gay communities guidelines. Publicly they say and do what it is correct but that doesn't truly express how they feel internally. Do they with hold comments in fear of being labelled homophobic? Some other people have posted that they felt strong emotions after male to male relationships. I believe that the younger generation still responds to this inner consciousness in the same way that the older generation does. They are just not as free to express themselves in the same manner.

Fair enough as far as it goes. It is just rude however for one to assume they can correct somebody else about his own sexuality. There are different ways to use these very crude labels.

Myself as an example. If percentage of gay/straight were measured by time period of sexual activity, I would be 85% straight at least. If physical arousal at looking at men vs. women, I would be 90% straight. If it is by total partners I would be 80% gay. If it is by emotional investment I would be 100% straight. If it is by which sex feels better sucking my dick, I would be 50/50. If it is about who you like to fuck or have fucked, I would be 99% straight. If it is about sexual interests with men v women, I would be 95% straight cause I do a lot more shit with women and really only get into being sucked by guys.

I consider myself straight because I am exclusively attracted emotionally to women, only somewhat interested in men physically and basically just allow guys to suck my dick cause it feels just as good. Besides, the "naughtiness" factor is also pretty high, which turns me on. And naughtiness for me knows no gender. Getting blown by a chick in her parents house is just about as good as getting blown by a dude in his parents house. But all things being equal the naughty factor is a bit higher with a guy.

Again, there is also a generational difference with this. Younger guys just aren't into the labels as older generations are. The old striaght/bi/gay labels are just breaking down all over the place. It really is a new world.

 

[jacero10]

Is it really? Could this just be geographical? Maybe the younger generation has learned to play within the gay communities guidelines. Publicly they say and do what it is correct but that doesn't truly express how they feel internally. Do they with hold comments in fear of being labelled homophobic? Some other people have posted that they felt strong emotions after male to male relationships. I believe that the younger generation still responds to this inner consciousness in the same way that the older generation does. They are just not as free to express themselves in the same manner.

I think that the conversation about sexual identity used to be dominated by those gays who were "out." They were the ones who were most invested and publicly accessible to the question. And, they tended to regard everyone male having sex with men as gay or closeted gay. The gay community used to hate the label "bisexual." The gay community used to tout the 10% figure, which was always a stretch. Now it is much more clear that those men who only have sex with men make up 2-3% of the American population. There is now a greater appreciation of the varieties of male sexuality. And, frankly, I believe a much wider set of adolescent males entertain the possibility of their being same sex attracted and much later into young adulthood. Social attitudes are a big factor here as the stigmas disappear. I also suspect that guys seeing so many thousands of penises in pornography during adolescence does affect their ideas about homosexuality. Today, the great majority of adolescent males will have viewed at least one gay sex scene to completion, which was unheard of even 20 years ago. So, naturally, the younger generation is much more fluid not only in their attitudes but also in their self identification.

In short the enormous divides between gay/straight/bi is breaking down into a continuum in all three areas of sexual attraction, activity and identity, all of which are distinct realities.

 

[musclebare9]

I have to disagree. If you read the posts about younger guys freaking out and covering up in the locker rooms, you will see that there is a greater stigma than ever about being considered gay or included in any gay type of activity. On the other hand, the older generation had no problem with stripping down and going skinny dipping in the pond on a hot summer day. I believe that there was just as much experimentation back then. I go back to, the few (3%) have made a lot of noise and the rest of the world have learned to play the game.

This is way off topic of the thread but I will continue on.
The gay population constantly states that being gay is not a choice. If we play by the same rules, then being straight is not a choice. Seeing a male on male movie will not make them any more inclined to be gay or acceptable to the idea. If they are straight then they are straight. Many of these adolescent males will be repulsed by what they see. Men are strangely curious about other males. I will agree that being adolescent and full of hormones will probably cause them to linger in front of gay porn. Would a gay man become more straight if he watched straight porn?

 

[novice_btm]

Great thread jace. I just wish I belonged to your gym. :wink:
:bj:

 

[jacero10]

I have to disagree. If you read the posts about younger guys freaking out and covering up in the locker rooms, you will see that there is a greater stigma than ever about being considered gay or included in any gay type of activity. On the other hand, the older generation had no problem with stripping down and going skinny dipping in the pond on a hot summer day. I believe that there was just as much experimentation back then. I go back to, the few (3%) have made a lot of noise and the rest of the world have learned to play the game.

This is way off topic of the thread but I will continue on.
The gay population constantly states that being gay is not a choice. If we play by the same rules, then being straight is not a choice. Seeing a male on male movie will not make them any more inclined to be gay or acceptable to the idea. If they are straight then they are straight. Many of these adolescent males will be repulsed by what they see. Men are strangely curious about other males. I will agree that being adolescent and full of hormones will probably cause them to linger in front of gay porn. Would a gay man become more straight if he watched straight porn?

I think there is some confusion here on a few things. Yes, younger men are more modest, true. I suspect that their modesty comes from having seen so much porn and having sexualized the male body. But, modesty and sexual attraction are different things. One gay be a modest straight or modest gay or anything in between.

As for guys changing their attractions because of seeing porn, I agree with you. I dont think seeing porn will change ones orientation one direction or another. However, seeing porn with men in it does seem to have an effect on the sexual activity of some. So, my point is not that sexual identity proportions are changing over time. But, the degree of experimentation taking place does seem to be changing. Life experience does seem to make a difference on what sexual activity one will get into.

If a buddy had not jumped me one day, I would likely have never had sexual contact with men and never missed it. But, once that happened and it felt great, I became open to guys sucking me off. I am not more attracted to men than before, and my orientation has not changed. I am just not closed to the idea of a man sucking my dick. And, when horny (all the time) I will gladly seek out a guy to get me off.

Is this clear as mud?

 

[musclebare9]

Nice and murky like lime jello.​

 

[musclebare9]

With the shredded carrots.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

PEACE not PIECE.

Incorrect. The context is correct for piece, as in you've had your say.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

Thanks for the comment, Tardis, and the gentle way you put it.

I should not have said that having sex with guys is really different. Morally, it is not. And, I am in the wrong on this. (Though it is true that it feels different.) I am going to have to deal with this soon. Thanks again.

Thanks for the reply fella, take care.

 

[CALAMBO]

jace...have you heard the phrase " EATIN AIN'T CHEETIN"....some ppl live by such language...i suspect you know exactly what you want and need to be a happy fella...i have read this thread and was at first a bit confused...thought about your lifestyle/relationship...some folks judge others...make comments...i personally admire you and the younger generation...less labels on society are a good thing...regards to you sir