Straight friend's internalized homophobia

[B_Hung Jon]

I had an experience when I was a senior in high school that's stayed with me for years. I had a good male friend who I made love with occasionally during the school year. We both played baseball together and ended up spending a lot of time at either his parents' house or my house. We both admitted we had strong feelings for each other. After one particular long and intense night of love and sex, he started casually talking about girls and how attracted he was to them. So here we are cuddling, having some pillow talk, and he keeps telling me how much he's hot for women, like he was comparing our being together with being with females. I asked him why he was with me if he preferred being with women? I mean, was he trying to assure me that he still had all his heterosexual credentials even though he was sleeping with a boy? The whole thing made me crazy. While I didn't care who he slept with, I felt really denigrated in that relationship and ended it. I also told him why. He basically didn't understand why I broke it off, and was pissed at me for months. I learned a lot from him about how we guys can disassociate from our actual experience. Sad but enlightening for me.

 

[B_Nick8]

C'mon, HJ. Of course you get it. He couldn't handle it; you could. But even you took a while to fully integrate all the parts of yourself and now look at you: totally cool. :wink:

 

[helgaleena]

Glad you learned from it, but quit letting it haunt you. He was very inconsiderate to bring up other people while in bed with you, no matter what sex.

 

[travis1985]

Try to give the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he was bi, thought you understood that, and had no idea you would be disturbed by a conversation about his experiences with you vis a vis others. After all, you're the one who broke it off and left him wondering what the hell that was. Insensitive of him IF he knew you didn't want to hear about that side of him, but I don't see what was particularly "homophobic" about this, unless you want to presume on the interpretation that sleeping with you freaked him out and he was trying to pretend he didn't like it.

 

[Gecko4lif]

So he is homophobic because he prefers women to you?

Seems rather egotistical.

Ironically enough I used to do things like that to my ex girlfriend. I borderline despised her though.

Might wanna think about that.

 

[B_debonair87]

he probably just wanted to experience gay sex and realized you both took things farther than he wanted them to go

 

[rbkwp]

Straight friend's internalized homophobia
Accept your subject title with hesitancy as perhaps a little unfair to type him as homophobia
but want to add

Was not going to respond but because of an experience similar i had i geuss i want to mention..
'naivety of youth' or more so sexual immaturity said Nicely..springs to mind hung jon

without being negative i personally feel he was being fair enuf' to let you know how he was feeling etc, even tho it was 'at that time' shall we say
but really NO time' is a good time to express such feelings and because of the youthful age, perhaps you both handled it a lot differently to how you would have at age 20/30 etc

My experience was an 8 year male to male relationship..full on everything
Because i was 'infatuated' (with younger plus his yearning for older) that was the basis of the relationship initially, but deep down i / we KN EW he was really ( as your then young friend) into the other side of life
overall we both knew he was going to eventually get into a relationship with a woman, and he did do and it still exists, almost 16 years now

Thing is, i was aged 29-37 , he was 22-30 (approx) of age at the time
He was still too immature to decide and make the final step to where he was destined
I actually found/encouraged/ virtually endorsed haha there relationship, not to get rid of him haha but i geuss more so to be fair to the guy, despite shitting on myself basically.
Tuff'

So i geuss what i am saying, if per chance you run into him again perhaps you guys could reflect on things and maybe a similar occurance as described by myself...could be evident
So many differing scenarios in life & relationships aye?
enz

as usual probably very difficult to understand and seems disjointed, but hope you get the gist of it all..

 

[Incocknito]

C'mon, HJ. Of course you get it. He couldn't handle it; you could. But even you took a while to fully integrate all the parts of yourself and now look at you: totally cool. :wink:

You are wrong. If his 'straight' friend couldn't handle it, wouldn't the straight friend have broken it off with Jon and not the other way around?

 

[Redwyvre]

This thread seems related to your "Another question for guys who identify as straight." thread. Btw that thread is brilliant! It really nailed the concept of resentment and I thank all who contributed to it. I think it could be made into something... Resentment means to feel again and it doesn't feel very good. Forgiveness and moving on feels better. Don't know what else to say. Keep us posted!

 

[uncut1]

Hay jon
this happened to me as well except the guy..or guys turned against me afterwards. We where good friends with the sex on the side.I,m glad it happend though. heres why,
After they spread it around that I was a fag everyone of my friends turned away from me. I sat for one year comeing to terms that I was gay and they where not.
I finally got myself together and sead fuk-em If they are truely my friends then they will except me as I am as I do them. they did come around and we remained friendly(friendly). Its not homopobia I believe,its more that they felt guilty for the sex act and coulden't deal with the fact that they enjoyed it at the moment.I felt guilty for what I had done to them.that was 30+ years ago and they have all lost there way threw there lives.I found myself that year and have never looked back.
This is why I don't do straight guys or want to.(old memories) Besides there are plenty of gay men out there for me to meet and bound with.
When your young,you'll try things out to find your way as I did..and as they did.
I miss there friendship, But I had to travel my own path. Now if the straight guy says I just need a quick blowjob and nothing more fine you atleast know thats all it is. But never expect fealings from them.They are striaght,they can't give us that.
Don't put to much into it,or you will rack your brain.Enjoy what it was and treat them with respect as you would hope they will do onto you..if they don't..Fuck-em.

 

[Miscer]

Sounds like you have some externalised biphobia.

 

[davidjh7]

The thread title may give the wrong impression. After reading it and thinking about it, maybe you could have explained your reasons better. And maybe there was homophobia on his part, but self-directed, that he had to reassure himself that he wasn't gay, but Bi or straight, despite his feelings. Ultimately, I think you did the right thing for both of you since a strong relationship can't be built if there is inherent doubt about who you are or what you want. I hope he found his place and happiness in life, and that you have as well.

 

[NEWREBA]

Since I know you pretty well, Jonny, I think people responding to your little story are missing the point you are trying to make. Tell me if this is true. It sounds to me that your friend was using some of your intimate time together to talk about women because he was somewhat uncomfortable being with another boy. It's the way that young guys seem to bond. I think it was extremely insensitive of him to do that when you were cuddling or in bed together. It's almost as if he was trying to put you down, and in doing that he was also doing the same thing to himself. Almost like two boys making love wasn't as good as a guy and a girl. So if your friend was feeling confused about his experience with you, and then expressed it that way, it sounds very much like he was relying on his heterosexual privilege to affirm his own ego. So in that sense I see how you could call his response internalized homophobia. Also if I understand you correctly, I don't think you're feeling so bad about it now, but rather are sharing it as a learning experience. Is that true?

 

[travis1985]

I don't think anyone other than that young man himself can attest to what he was feeling at the moment or why he said the things he said. Looking at this objectively, which is all we can do unless he shows up here, it isn't fair to conclude that he has "internalized homophobia." The facts just don't verify that.

 

[AdamTaylor]

NEWREBA feels the same way I do about it. I do think it was insensitive for him to bring up his heterosexual experiences with you while you were both laying naked in bed. It was demeaning your experience together and he knew that. I'm sure all that brought up deep feelings of insecurity for you, especially at a young age.

You were very, very strong to break it off on your own and that in itself shows you gained some sort of strength from the whole thing. You've learned. It's because of situations like this that I myself, as a practicing bisexual, always let my male partners know I am in a loving relationship with a woman and any sexual activity we engage in is strictly physical and in no way will I become emotionally involved with them.

 

[formerex]

I feel like I've been there.

 

[B_Hung Jon]

Since I know you pretty well, Jonny, I think people responding to your little story are missing the point you are trying to make. Tell me if this is true. It sounds to me that your friend was using some of your intimate time together to talk about women because he was somewhat uncomfortable being with another boy. It's the way that young guys seem to bond. I think it was extremely insensitive of him to do that when you were cuddling or in bed together. It's almost as if he was trying to put you down, and in doing that he was also doing the same thing to himself. Almost like two boys making love wasn't as good as a guy and a girl. So if your friend was feeling confused about his experience with you, and then expressed it that way, it sounds very much like he was relying on his heterosexual privilege to affirm his own ego. So in that sense I see how you could call his response internalized homophobia. Also if I understand you correctly, I don't think you're feeling so bad about it now, but rather are sharing it as a learning experience. Is that true?

EXACTLY! REBA. Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say so well. :biggrin1:

 

[jjsjr]

Two words: Fear and Denial.


There are too many people who are afraid of being ostracized and that fear is so overwhelmingly intense that they will do whatever it takes to avoid having to feel that emotion. Ergo: Denial.

 

[NEWREBA]

EXACTLY! REBA. Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say so well. :biggrin1:

You are welcome, sweetie. It always seems that people on this site have a blunt way of taking about subtle emotional states and can only use the black and white criteria of their childhood to explain these sorts of situations. Teenage boys are the most homophobic group in the country and are forever defending their heterosexual position against all who challenge them. To me it's a character default that can only be changed by education. I don't think schools in the US are ready to take on all the no-nothing southern conservatives around gender roles. I mean, even a year ago some grade school principal in South Carolina was defending his corporal punishment of his students. He would whip them with a stick if they misbehaved. How can we expect such idiots to actually have the ability to understand or sympathize with how two boys may deal with their love life? Don't let the haters and ignorant on here get to you.

 

[luvmycock]

Since I know you pretty well, Jonny, I think people responding to your little story are missing the point you are trying to make. Tell me if this is true. It sounds to me that your friend was using some of your intimate time together to talk about women because he was somewhat uncomfortable being with another boy. It's the way that young guys seem to bond. I think it was extremely insensitive of him to do that when you were cuddling or in bed together. It's almost as if he was trying to put you down, and in doing that he was also doing the same thing to himself. Almost like two boys making love wasn't as good as a guy and a girl. So if your friend was feeling confused about his experience with you, and then expressed it that way, it sounds very much like he was relying on his heterosexual privilege to affirm his own ego. So in that sense I see how you could call his response internalized homophobia. Also if I understand you correctly, I don't think you're feeling so bad about it now, but rather are sharing it as a learning experience. Is that true?

Very well said.