Straight guys level of respect for gay guys

findfirefox

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That's something I had to realize. Gay dudes are serious. No women anywhere. I remember the first time I saw gay porn. I was shocked. I don't know what I had thought, but I guess I thought that gay guys were guys who, I don't know, had sex with women but talked about their feelings as they did so, or gay guys were effeminate but still had sex with women while other effeminate guys watched. Or at the very least they sucked each other off while women watched. Somehow, a woman had to always be involved. Or so I thought.... Took me a while to realize that I just don't understand it. Gay guys don't want women anywhere during sex, generally speaking.

Humm, can I ask if you have ever reflected on what influenced you to think this?
 

earllogjam

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Effeminate guys make us uncomfortable because they represent the very thing we're trying to get away from.
I think you hit on the heart of the issue here, henry.

Men who are comfortable with their own sexuality are comfortable with effeminate men. When I was in denial and in the closet with my homosexuality as a younger man I was deeply bothered by effeminate guys and would avoid them for fear of being guilty by association. As I have become more comfortable with myself it doesn't bother me anymore. They just people. I don't think any guy chooses to be effeminate it is just something that comes from within. It is hard to be true to yourself and your own nature especially when that nature is persecuted and loathed by others. People are naturally cruel and suspicious of people who are different - that is unfortunately human nature. People also hang out with people who share their same interests and temperament - that is also human nature. It is probably why I have many more straight male friends than gay effeminate ones.
 

Principessa

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That's something I had to realize. Gay dudes are serious. No women anywhere. I remember the first time I saw gay porn. I was shocked. I don't know what I had thought, but I guess I thought that gay guys were guys who, I don't know, had sex with women but talked about their feelings as they did so, or gay guys were effeminate but still had sex with women while other effeminate guys watched. Or at the very least they sucked each other off while women watched. Somehow, a woman had to always be involved. Or so I thought.... Took me a while to realize that I just don't understand it. Gay guys don't want women anywhere during sex, generally speaking.

ROTFLMAO - Why didn't you just look up homosexual in the dictionary? The definition is quite clear and not at all vague.:tongue::rolleyes:
 

cyberczar

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I find that the older I get the more naturally masculine I become.

A lot of this has to do with age, maturity, and wisdom.

Then again, I've known some butch guys on the outside who are flaming queens on the inside and get them in an intimate setting and they'd set your house on fire.

The saying goes that perception is 9/10ths reality?

It all depends on the person and the situation.

I'm not overly masculine. I don't like a lot of body hair and facial hair, but I don't swish when I walk either. I might after 10 or 12 beers but not normally. ;-)

But as far as what I'm attracted to, it would be easier for me to tell you what I'm NOT attracted to, and that would be extremes. Extreme fems, extreme butch guys, extreme queens, and some jocks that feel they must boast and parade around their bravado and testerone like it's some badge to be worn proudly.

Kinda reminds me of a peacock spreading its feathers for the whole world to see. Can look pretty, but not very practical.

Just my 2¢.
 

B_henry miller

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Effeminate men don't "threaten" me. They confuse me and they defy the logic that I hold to, namely, that all men want to be masculine. It's not that I fear that they will make me "effeminate by association." To the contrary, I've known many effeminate men that I like a great deal, drag queens even. And I've never feared they'd make me effeminate.

If anything, it's the logic in it that I find it hard to understand. As a heterosexual who wants to be masculine, I suppose I have it lodged in my mind that ALL men want to be masculine.

In this line of thinking, effeminate men are seen as men who are being forced to be effeminate -- perhaps by their mothers, girlfriends, society, you name it.

For me, the only logical response to this is to say to the guy, "Liberate yourself! Learn to be masculine!"

Bottom line, what I have had to come to understand is that some men would choose to be effeminate of their own volition. I can only conceive of it as something that would be forced on a man. But some men like it. I just don't understand it. Just as I don't understand men who would want a sex change. Having my cock cut off is my worst nightmare. But just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I condemn it or think people who do it are wrong, or that if I am around men who are like this then I'm going to be like them. It's okay that they do it; it's their choice. And it's okay that I don't understand it. Okay? :cool:


I think you hit on the heart of the issue here, henry.

Men who are comfortable with their own sexuality are comfortable with effeminate men. When I was in denial and in the closet with my homosexuality as a younger man I was deeply bothered by effeminate guys and would avoid them for fear of being guilty by association. As I have become more comfortable with myself it doesn't bother me anymore. They just people. I don't think any guy chooses to be effeminate it is just something that comes from within. It is hard to be true to yourself and your own nature especially when that nature is persecuted and loathed by others. People are naturally cruel and suspicious of people who are different - that is unfortunately human nature. People also hang out with people who share their same interests and temperament - that is also human nature. It is probably why I have many more straight male friends than gay effeminate ones.
 
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carnut64

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I dont know if my comments on this subject will make much difference, but, I have to admire the courage that the femmie flamboyant types have, to be who they are and be true to themselves no matter what people think. The are probably the most confident people I know. I myself, am 110% gay, never been with a woman, and am quite butch. I drove tow truck for several years, now manage a mechanic shop, I drive stockcar at a two local dirt tracks, I restore antique VWs, and wouldnt be ashamed to walk into a gay bar with bloodied knuckles, greasy jeans and transmission fluid in my hair wanting a beer now that I got the car put together. But on the other hand, Im also a wonderful singer (have many awards for that) a gourmet cook, and love to do gardening and interior decorating for relaxation, and there are times that I want to look very metro sexual for the gay bar as well and my feminine side comes out, the z snap, and the elbow elbow wrist wrist thing just pops out there. So I guess what Im trying to say, be comfortable with who you are no matter what it is, screw them guys that are giving you a hard time, its obviously their problem that they need to get over and the fact that you let them know it bothers you, is probably the reaction they were after in the first place. Its usually those type that make fun of others that are covering up their own short comings or faults or they are just jealous. They should respect you for who you are, not what they think you should be.
 

danbala

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I have the same level of respect for stupid alcoholic homophobic frat boys who think being slovenly and dense and painting their bodies the colors of their favorite sports team proves their manliness.

This is another thing I don't understand. Why do Macho guys get so riled up over gays or goths wearing costumes out to clubs or pride events when some of the outfits guys wear to pro football games make the sisters of perpetual indulgence look tame?

I agree that I find it hard to understand effeminacy but It realy dosn't make me uncomfortable.

And to the guy who asked if we would want a man with a coochie: I have actualy seen this F2M on the internet who looks like a hot biker dude but has a pussy, and yes I would like to hit that. (just hope she smells like a guy though)


Thanks to everyone for the great replies.
 

visceraltuning

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I don't think it has any thing to do with sexual orientation, but more to do with gender.

I think masculine men don't respect feminine men regardless of who they like to have sex with.
 

yngjock20

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I have a more difficult time getting along with other gay men period. For me it's not an issue of how feminine you act, I don't even really know why I don't gel with them...I just don't. Most of my friends are straight women or lesbians. Oh, and like two straight guys.
 

invisibleman

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I wouldn't want to be beaten up by a drag queen.

Pretend it is UFC. Win some, lose some. Next time, you gain the upper hand when you steal their (drag queen's) makeup bags and their support hoseiry. Think Louis Vuitton and Donna Karan as far as handbags are concerned. (There are some who have BABY PHAT/PHAT FARM bags...back off from those. Those queens have boxcutters and uzis in those bags.) A good drag queen won't go into battle without looking good. :rolleyes:

If you really wanna fuck their chi up, you turn their Cher or ABBA CD off in the middle. We are talking drag queen TKO.
 

B_Italian1

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DO you guys generally see butch guys as more acceptable than the feminine ones?

As a society we are raised with the stereotype that men are masculine and women are feminine. It doesn’t mean they should be treated with any less respect or not accepted, but oftentimes I think they are. It’s part of society’s stereotype and media influences, but it can be completely wrong. There are straight men who are fem acting and gay men who are masculine acting.

The same is true for masculine women. We may assume they are lesbians. Was anyone surprised when Rosie and Ellen came out? But not all lesbians are butch. Most of the gay men I've known have been feminine, and everyone more or less knew they were gay. I worked with a man who acted just like Jack on “Will and Grace”, and this was years before that show was even on. And another one was more like Will; just not as flamboyant. And the others I’ve known, more have been feminine than masculine. And I've known more masculine lesbians than feminine ones. I’m not really sure why this is.

I've had no problems at all with feminine gay men. They've all been very nice guys. People are people, gay or straight, some rotten, some nice.

Have more respect for tops over bottoms?

I think it’s important for gay men to be equal. I’ve read posts on this site in which gay tops show contempt for gay bottoms; it’s okay for others to be a bottom but they would never be one themself.

Do you feel a certain level of disdain for anything feminine (unless of course it is a woman)?

No. There’s more femininity in some men than others. Again, it’s the stereotypes that we are raised with. When I was young I didn’t cook, but if I did and told other guys they’d have called me a fag. I went to school with a straight guy who majored in culinary arts and became a chef. Another straight guy is a hairdresser and owns his own salon. My dad had a male nurse when he was in the hospital. Cooking, hairdressing, and nursing are considered feminine professions, but I don’t care whether a man is doing it or a woman–as long as the person is doing a good job.

However I often find myself become hostile and defensive when someone makes a crack at my "femininity." I feel like I always have to hold up this hardcore standard to "Prove" not all gay guys are drag queens. Why the hell do I get so offended?

A lot of this has to do with the media. Where are the famous masculine gay men? There aren’t any. They refuse to come out. The well known men who have come out are Nathan Lane, Lance Bass, Boy George and Freddie Mercury; some flamboyant and others not so much. Years ago it was Liberace and Elton John.

If a major league football player came out or a major actor, the stereotype would slowly shatter; what you see is not necessarily what you get. Television doesn’t portray gay men as masculine either. There’s a show I watch, “Brothers and Sisters", and one of the characters is a gay man. If the writers wanted to break some kind of ground and make it interesting, they could have made him an assertive carpenter or some other typical masculine profession. Instead they chose the safe route and made him a confused lawyer.
 

D_Harry_Crax

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I don't think it has any thing to do with sexual orientation, but more to do with gender. I think masculine men don't respect feminine men regardless of who they like to have sex with.

Bingo! At the heart of homophobia is sexism. "Straight-acting" gay men don't take that much crap, while feminine men, gay or straight (and yes, I've known two quite feminine men in life who otherwise seemed 100% hetero), get talked about and more.
 

billybones

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Just curious on the straight male perspective here. DO you guys generally see butch guys as more acceptable than the feminine ones? Have more respect for tops over bottoms? Do you feel a certain level of disdain for anything feminine (unless of course it is a woman)? I guess I'm trying to gauge my own level of misogyny. I am sexually as gay as you can get. I have never been with a woman. But I'm basically an average punk rock, video game geek, kind of guy. I work on cars, drink beer, and burn one down when I can. I'm open at work and I am one of the most well like both among the garage and the front of the house staff. However I often find myself become hostile and defensive when someone makes a crack at my "femininity." I feel like I always have to hold up this hardcore standard to "Prove" not all gay guys are drag queens. Why the hell do I get so offended? I have nothing against feminine men.Trust me I'm not all butch, I really dig techno, have 4 cats, love arts and crafts. In the past most of my friends where artists and or women so there wasn't all of the pressure of the wolf pack mentality. However now I live in the burbs now and most of my aquantices are straight males. I think some of their unfavorable attitudes are rubbing off on me. I guess I need to learn to be tough when I need to be with out the need to dishonor my soft side(or anyone else's.) Any thoughts from the alpha dudes out there?
Thanks,

I have my own ideas about why we react this way. It's something I have been known to do. I have found myself telling people I'm a top in conversations for no real reason, other than to let them know where I stand in my role as a gay man in American society and to make myself feel better. You end up thinking "if I can just work this tidbit of personal information into the conversation, then they'll respect me." We're hardwired to do it by society. By a society that has us all constantly jumping through one social hoop after another. It's vestigial trait left over from our youth where we had to constantly keep up our guard lest the world discover our secret. But on the other hand I am never one to belittle an effeminate gay man. I, personally, have no issues with effete people of either preference or gender (okay, that's a lie. Women who act like 5 year old girls and speak in that needy, high-pitched voice drive me up the fucking wall. You know, the type that use cutesy words like "tummy" or "yummy".) Yet I find myself not wanting others to think that's what I am. But in the last few years, after moving all the way across the country from where I grew up, I've found myself having just as many gay friends as I do straight guy friends. And many of the gay ones are drag queens. Basically, if a man can tolerate to listen to his bleeting wife or girlfriend, he should have enough sense to tolerate it from another man. And trust me, even if the gay guy wears high heels and hotpants, he's still a guy. The straight butch guy has more in common with queer man than he does with his straight girlfriend. So, now that I've worked through my issues with what the world is going to think of me for being gay and the insane notion that they'll respect me just a little more if I'm a masculine gay man instead of the reality that if I have to qualify myself to get their respect then I don't need it, all I have to do is figure out why I am gay man that is also a chauvinist. Lesbians can pick up on this faster than anyone else I know. Lipstick lesbians don't seem to notice or care, but the butch ones just DO NOT like me.
 

uncut1234

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it all depends on how they act
if they act like a bitch, literally, start drama, then cry when someone wants to hold them accountable for it, i have no respect for them, ive only known a few gay guys, and they were like im descriving, they would start shit with straight guys, talk shit about straight guys, then when the straight guy would confront them they act like a bitch and try to make everyone feel bad for them... why should sexual preference have anything to do with that, they think they are exempt from ass kicking because they are gay, the few ive know think they can do or say anything they want, weather its about girls or guys, and no one will do or say anything to them, make girls cry, insult them, talk shit about guys insult them, but no one can yell at them or touch them because they like the same sex.. funny really.
 

B_Monster

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So have I, ive seen straight guys that look like women and act like women sometimes


illybones;1647873]I've known straight guys that act like that too.[/quote]