Who cares really? Seriously? Life is a pretty short affair and worrying about what someone calls themself must rank very high as a colossal waste of that time.
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Straight men having sex with each other
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Phil Ayesho
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Personally- I really really Love a woman's fluid sexual space.
That's how you know you're doing something she likes.
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STRAIGHT GUYS DON'T HAVE SEX WITH MEN! PERIOD! If you do, at the least your bi! Its a fact, and there is nothing wrong with it!
100% of the population have sexual attraction to the same sex? I find that hard to believe...
But anyway, I don't think that homoerotic attraction have anything to do with homophobia afterall. By analizing history, we can easily see how homophobia is passed down as a taught value, as is any supremacist system of beliefs. In most of the cases, bigotry isn't someone taking a personal issue with a group, it's more like a loss of consideration towards this group as equals.
Thank you, dear Sargon.
To everyone else: unless you want to be all intellectual about it (like dear Levi or Phil Ayesho), I really don't care to hear your Donald Trumpesque opinions.
bigbull29, here is one of those intellectual-isms.
Margaret Mead was likely the most influential anthropologist of the twenty-century
One of her key assumptions regarding the study of a culture was that, “an individual who is a member of that culture has the least ability to study (analyze) that culture”.
In light of that observation, it may be that we hetro, homo, bi, whatever…. are the least capable to understand and describe our sexual leanings and where they originate.
Margaret Mead, “Human nature is almost unbelievably malleable in responding to cultural conditions.”
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Baloney.
Experiencing something firsthand brings an understanding that surpasses anyone who is just studying it from the outside.
If you want to know what chocolate tastes like, then eat it - don't just study other people who eat chocolate.
You are misunderstanding the scope and extent of what I mean by "social" influences.
I know that until recently heterosexual marriage was pretty much the only option for people.
But since the 50s/60s it's been OK to be gay in some parts of the Western, developed world.
And now, things like the "gay scene", gay media, celebrities ... can make it all OK.
AND, there are specific gay sub cultures. Centred around music, dance, nightclubs, drugs for example. But also other options. Support groups, cultural things. BDSM ... lots of gay interests are now catered for. But what I mean is, that *becomes* part of the culture that surrounds us.
And it is much better at legitimising homosexual sex, than making it OK/easy to have bisexual lifestyles. That's what I mean. What does a "bi couple" look like to you? What should they do? Does it have to be "faithful"? It's those sort of issues where I think there is (still) a gap ...
Underlying all homophobia is simple disgust - ew guys and butt sex. Think of all the most old school, nasty homophobic slurs and they describe sex between men. We gay guys make up about 2% of the population yet there's an inaccurate popular belief that we're having all the homo sex (and right wing scumbags very much care about this). In reality the percentage of "straight" guys reporting same sex sexual encounters are more than triple that of the gay male population and the numbers are probably higher. There's all this gay sex happening among men who are not gay but it's un-PC to suggest they might fall along the bisexual spectrum so we'll just call them straight.
I think maybe you missed my point, not necessarily your fault. Didn't you suggest that everyone would give it a go with both sexes if it were socially acceptable to do so? Everyone is a little bi? It was very much socially acceptable for me to have sex with women (and the only sex I could get) but I didn't. Why not? Because I'm 100% homo. There really are people on either end of the spectrum who only engage with one sex, ever. For us fixed sexual orientation types (gay or straight) our sexuality is not fluid, and we know this from our earliest memory and it never wavers. We do exist but who knows? Maybe those fixed types are actually a small part of the population.
Nope.
I hardly ever use words like 'every' or 'all'. Because I'm trained in logic...
I was saying SOME (more) people would be bi, were there not so many social constraints and inhibitions ...
That's all.
phillo12345 said:
Yes. I agree with those parts.
You wouldn’t get a lot of argument from me on that.
However, Ms. Mead would be quick to remind us that our cultural history and experience(s) would significantly limit our ability to communicate what we experienced when we ate chocolate and why we experienced it as we did.
For example, based on our cultural history,
--We might find the taste of chocolate to be frightening since it resembles something else we have tasted that was associated with a bad experience.
--We might find the taste of chocolate makes us feel happy and comforted but not understand the chemical pros and cons of eating chocolate and its impact on the body/mind.
--We might find the taste of chocolate makes us ashamed since our culture has moralizes against it.
--We might find the taste of chocolate makes us feel rich since we have been taught to associate that taste with privilege.
I don’t have a copy of the article, but somewhere back around 1950 one of Ms Mead’s colleagues presented a paper called something like “Cultural Habits of the Nacirema”.
Nacirema is American spelled backward, but the objective of the article was to have a space alien describe how he saw an American getting ready for work in the morning. It was a humorous article.
The intent was to cause the reader to say to themselves, “I never thought what I did could be seen/understood that way”.
Margaret Mead:
I have spent most of my life studying the lives of other peoples — faraway peoples — so that Americans might better understand themselves.
How do you know the reason? You are assuming it's homophobia when you don't know. Whatever the reason it is not your journey to what is his truth and his most authentic self. It is his journey. Each day is an opportunity to grow into and be the with as much outside intervention you want or as little intervention as you want. And as life progresses you become better attuned to what is the right thing for you and the next right thing and the next. Maybe this man will say he's bi or maybe gay or maybe straight. This is his journey. My journey isn't to worry about his journey but my own. FWIW I think everyone should feel the same.
The ugly mirror image of homophobia is the disgust expressed by some gay men of the female form and ew remarks about vagina etc, which is perhaps also an underlying fear (hence phobia). I rather like the idea of all these "straight" men having same sex encounters though I haven't come across many, as it were. Presumably the fewer gay men are having gay sex more often, so perhaps it evens out. Is bisexuality un-PC? Seems to me sex and gender fluidity are quite in fashion.
Poor comparison and just makes no sense. Homophobia is a dislike of gay people and according to recent polling about 100 million Americans are homophobes it and it causes discriminatory legislation, hate crimes, teen suicide, etc. Read up on it.
What are the social ramifications of a few gay guys saying 'ew girls'? I'm guessing most women aren't losing sleep over it.
That wasn't what I meant, I can try to clarify and maybe I will after more coffee.
Ok, I misread what you wrote and just skimmed our entire back and forth and 100% of what you said makes sense (even to me) so I guess we're on the same page.
Thanks for the fact sheet on homophobia. Gay male misogyny is part of the wider issue of male misogyny, so yeah, plenty of social ramifications - read up on it.