Study finds men more hurt by stressful relationships than women.

Incocknito

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My last girlfriend was the first one who would play games...it wasn't even games cos it wasn't fun (for me). She just literally abused me...physically, emotionally, sexually.

That probably hurt me the most. Which is difficult to come to terms with; the amount of damage she caused.

She's married now so obviously she took it a lot better than I did...actually she didn't take "it" well at all but that's another story.
 

HiddenLacey

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This may have something to do with pursuers vs. distancers; one model says that partners regardless of gender tend to be a dyad with one pursuer and one distancer. One who initiates conflict and one who flees from it or shuts down. Women tend to be pursuers and men distancers but it can work the other way:
Negative interaction cycle of criticize/placate, pursue and distance intimacy

Interesting read! I'm a placater! I don't think that I shut down, but I do withdrawal from the situation. I simply do not feel like listening to someone who is screaming and yelling and throwing a tantrum. If someone wants to speak rationally about something I'm going to sit there and listen. And I am also a People Pleaser. I always try to fix and smooth over every situation.

I find this very interesting. I don't really want to be either of these things I think it stems from trying to keep the arguements to a minimum. Thank you for sharing this LINK!
 

HiddenLacey

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Submissivegirl, I'm so sorry to hear about your misfortunes. In fact, it bothers me so much, I almost wish that I could do something about it. However, deep down, I know that only you can make a positive change by standing up for yourself and finally saying "Enough is enough!". I truly hope your situation will improve, if it hasn't already.

A general comment: I believe that both men and women have the potential to be "controlling" in a relationship. I just think that it's human nature to be controlling in general. Look at the world today: war, rape, sex trafficking, bullies, bigots, etc. Everywhere you look, someone is trying to control another person or people. It's a disgustingly sad truth about our nature. I hate it so much.

That said, I think one way that people could have healthy, well balanced relationships, is if both parties have strong enough personalities that they won't allow themselves to be controlled. Of course, it's also possible that some people are truly evolved enough to have no desire to control their mate, no matter how submissive that mate might act. But I truly believe those people are few and far between, gender notwithstanding.

I have NO desire to control my SO. I don't really care who he's on the phone with, or where he's going and if I ask it's because I want to know if I can have dinner or make plans to do something else without having 15 phone calls during my outting. I look at it like this. The person you are dating is either going to be with you or they are not. End of story, controlling the other person is a useless endeavor, because eventually they start to resent you (me being one of those people.) I consider myself to be a submissive personality in general simply because I want to avoid the physical and emotional confrontations that every discussion seems to evolve to. It does not make me a weak person, it simply means I have found a pattern (that I see I need to correct) that is safer for me in the long run.
 

concupisys

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one quote i like from this article is: "Rotten behaviour happens in all marriages but as Gottman has shown those who bounce back quickly have an underlying fondness and admiration for each other AND can inject humour into the events and ownership of their part in it."....

i truly believe that, and i believe that it's something that not enough people do in their relationships.... a good example of this is when i watch the show 'Roseanne'.... roseanne and dan connor are both alpha-types, and can both be highly aggressively charged people when in conflict.... and boy can they have some amazing arguements.... but what kept them together was the fact that both not only knew eachother, but also knew themselves and could easily admit their own faults because they OWNED them.... in that respect, they also had control over their faults, and would have a good laugh about it when they realized they were overstepping their boundaries or simply being wrong in their stance in a conflict.... (roseanne was sometimes a little harder to convince.... hehehe....)

SG83: i hope you do find your tarzan.... there are men out there who can equally swing from trees and beat their pecs as they can be sensitive and passionate.... maybe you'll have to take a walk in the forest to find them.... :)
 

HiddenLacey

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*snip*
SG83: i hope you do find your tarzan.... there are men out there who can equally swing from trees and beat their pecs as they can be sensitive and passionate.... maybe you'll have to take a walk in the forest to find them.... :)

:tongue:ROFL, thats what it is! I live in the fields, wooooo forest here I come:cool::biggrin1:
 

Meniscus

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"Young women are more emotionally affected than their romantic partners when it comes to being in a relationship or not. Young men, on the other hand, are more affected emotionally by the quality of their current relationships."

"Men need partner support more than women do, significantly so."

These two quotes in particular ring true to me. Of all the guys I've known over the years, I can't think of many who were looking for a girlfriend (or wife), but many of them expressed a desire to meet a nice woman, go on some dates, have some fun, hopefully get some sex, and see where it goes.

But once these guys found themselves in a relationship, they were thoroughly invested in it. In generally, they were very happy to have found a girlfriend, and loved being in a relationship. They'd lose interest in social activities and neglect the rest of their friends, just wanting to be alone with her. They'd put their own needs and desires second, and put all kinds of effort in to paying attention to her and trying to keep her happy. Contrary to the stereotype, I think they wanted to be with their girlfriend as often as possible, sometimes to the point where the girlfriends were feeling a bit smothered. (I'm sure there are many guys who are not like this, but I've never been friends with one.)

My female friends, on the other hand, were always unhappy being single and wanted to be in a relationship. They weren't looking to simply meet a man or to date, they wanted a boyfriend, and when they did meet a guy, I often heard complaints that he wasn't moving fast enough. He'd want to go out with her and do things with her, and she's analyze it endlessly wondering what it "meant." If he asked her out, she'd talk to her girlfriends (which, as a gay man, included me), and dry herself crazy trying to figure out if he liked her or not, if his feelings were romantic or if he just wanted to be friends, should she'd dress up a bit or should she wear her ordinary casual clothes...and on and on. As far as I could tell, from the beginning she'd be trying to figure out where it was going and whether or not it was going to turn into a relationship.

But, once that was cleared up and she felt confident that they were a couple, she didn't need him as much. She was much more likely to want to spend time socializing with other people and pursuing her own interests. Sometimes she'd want him to come along, but often she'd prefer he found something else to do rather than dragging him along to something she knew he wouldn't like. And although she liked to be alone with him, she would want to spend at least half of their time together with friends or doing other social activities. He'd go along because he wanted to be with her, not because he wanted to do whatever they were doing. Generally he'd prefer just to stay at home and watch TV together or rent a movie.

I'm sure there are women who are not like this, but I've never been friends with one.

Make of that what you will.
 

Meniscus

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Because we internalize more than you. It's not healthy to do such and will mostly be let out in fits of anger after a boiling point.

I agree with this as well. Even for guys with enlightened parents who taught him "it's OK to cry," there's still a deep and pervasive message in our culture that guys are supposed to be cool, calm, collected, and in control (not only of themselves, but of the situation). Men are also supposed to be tough, to "be a man" and take what life throws at you, to play the hand you're dealt. Of course, the reality is that there are many things we can't control, especially other people. Consciously or not, I think that frustrates a lot of guys, makes them feel vulnerable and insecure, causes them a lot of stress, and generally drives them nuts. Frankly, I think a lot of guys feel like the world is pissing on them (or worse), which is not how they expected things to be, and they don't know how to deal with it. Most of us are so cut off from our own hearts, we don't even know what it is that we're feeling, or why we're feeling it, so how can we possibly talk about it? Then the women in our lives try to find out what we're feeling, and that just makes us feel nagged, pressured, and more stressed out.

I also think our culture displays anger a positive emotion that men should own and embrace. In most of our stories, there hero (usually male) is either on a quest or he's fighting for something (truth, justice, his family, his home), and he finds his strength in a kind of righteous anger. It's when he stops being afraid or unsure of himself, and when he becomes a tough guy and says "come on, let's do this" or "let's finish it" or "go on, make my day" that he finds an almost supernatural ability to overcome any obstacle, vanquish all evil, and save the day.

Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in real life, either. It's a lot uglier and messier than that.

When we reach our limit, when it all just gets to be too much, we sometimes embrace our negative emotions instead of bottling them up, the rush of adrenaline (and whatever other hormone are involved) makes us feel strong, powerful, and aggressive--sometimes to the point of being totally irrational and unable to contemplate the wisdom of our actions and the possible consequences. We fell like we can do anything, take on anything, and it feels good, in a sick, terrible way. (Frankly, it's not all that different from being sexually aroused.) It feels good to release all the hurt, anger, frustration, and to vent it towards someone, to take it out on someone, and to make someone else hurt--especially if we perceive the person in question as a source or cause of our pain.

Sometimes these are violent outbursts, sometimes they are hurtful words, and sometimes they are channelled in relatively safe, healthy ways (e.g., working out, going for a run, hitting a punching bag, going to loud concert and dancing in a mosh pit--whatever works). One of the worst things you can do to a guy is to deny him an effective outlet, but sometimes our partners do that.

Of course, it would be better if we didn't let things get to that point, if we had a more caring, nuturing, mutually supportive culture and if there were plenty of positive, constructive ways to let out our frustrations.

My generation isn't as bad as my father's and his wasn't as bad as his father's. But we're still a long ways away from having a successful new model of masculinity. In a way, we're currently in an awkward transitional phase which might be a sign of progress, but which has also left us confused about who we are, what we're supposed to be, and how we're supposed to relate to others.

Unfortunately, as a culture, I also think we're a lot more selfish and self-centered than we used to be, and if we don't get it under control our problems as individuals and as a society are only going to get worse, no matter what progress we make in other areas.
 

concupisys

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you make some very good points meniscus.... i've known many women to take that approach to relationships.... it's like the whole theory of wanting what you haven't got, but once you have it you can suddenly take it for granted because all the leg work has been done....

alas in reality that is not the case.....

coming together in a relationship is the easy part.... making it work once the relationship is real is the hard part....
 

helgaleena

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While males may be hurt mentally more, it ends up that females are hurt physically more, often paying with their lives when a relationship goes wrong. Yes, men, it would do everybody good to step away if you are not getting the support you need. Don't try to turn a woman into what you wish she was, just dump her before it gets worse.


Incocknito, I am so sorry that you got involved with such a woman and didn't cut it off long before it damaged you. I too learned to 'make allowances' and 'walk on eggshells' in an effort to keep a relationship going, but in my case it was not because I didn't know something was 'rotten in Denmark'... usually it was because I was stranded in some way , or there were children to protect.

Thank goodness it is in my past.

Unlike many stereotypes, in a relationship I am the one who flees from conflict and bottles up feelings. It is partly to do with growing up Scandinavian I suspect.
 

D_Harvey Schmeckel

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Interesting read! I'm a placater! I don't think that I shut down, but I do withdrawal from the situation. I simply do not feel like listening to someone who is screaming and yelling and throwing a tantrum. If someone wants to speak rationally about something I'm going to sit there and listen. And I am also a People Pleaser. I always try to fix and smooth over every situation. I find this very interesting. I don't really want to be either of these things I think it stems from trying to keep the arguements to a minimum. Thank you for sharing this LINK!

Just found it myself and was intrigued. Like you, I'm a placater who withdraws from tirades and arguments. There was very little raising of voices in my childhood home, no real meanness from parents or siblings, which seemed normal to me growing up. But as an adult it has been hard sometimes to adjust to how different other people's standards are of acceptable/unacceptable aggression and noise levels. A lot of people grow up amid hollering meanies and never get over it.
 
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petite

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Unlike many stereotypes, in a relationship I am the one who flees from conflict and bottles up feelings. It is partly to do with growing up Scandinavian I suspect.

That isn't a stereotype, it's been well documented in the largest studies done on couples ever conducted. Dr. Gottman began almost 40 years ago researching long term relationship success and found that the biggest indicator of long term success is a couple's ability to handle their arguments well. He has found that men and women do not handle conflict the same way and our differences cause us many problems that gay couples do not experience. I recommend listening to the radio show. It's entertaining and enlightening and it could save your relationship, too.


This free radio show gives a good overview of Dr. Gottman's work. It's the first story just after the intro. Just click "STREAM EPISODE" to listen to it for free.

The Sanctity of Marriage | This American Life

ACT ONE. WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IN MARRIAGE.
Ira visits marital researcher John Gottman, who's part of a generation of researchers that have revolutionized the way we see marriage by observing successful and unsuccessful marriages and trying to figure out what the successful happy ones are doing that the ones who end up in divorce are not. Marriage research and links to marriage education programs for couples are online at www.smartmarriages.com. (23 minutes)




For more on Dr. Gottman's research on marriage and heterosexual couples:
Research Abstracts - Marriage & Couples

Some information on Dr. Gottman's research on same sex couples:
http://www.gottman.com/49850/Gay--Lesbian-Research.html
 
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sbat

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The articles linked to were quite interesting to read, although I found that I don't quite fit into the categories they describe.

While I've definitely had arguments with girls I've dated, every relationship has been pretty healthy in terms of giving space, expressing affection, and resolving conflict. I do think that to a certain extent our perceptions of "right" behavior in a relationship are modeled by our parents. My own parents always handled conflicts between the two of them (at least in front of the kids) as mature adults - there was never emotional blackmail/bullshit, there was always search for a consensus, and there was always mutual respect.

Interestingly, the girls I've dated have all come from similar backgrounds. In part I think it's because I don't like dating girls who don't have some kind of talent or creative thing that they do that they can invest in, so that the relationship is not their end all and be all.

I think the stress that the original research uncovers may be due to the fact that there is a cultural expectation, perpetuated very often by women themselves, that the man is the emotionally strong one, giving them license to burden him with helping her deal with her anxieties, problems, and tears.

In my relationship with my current girlfriend, she has a tendency to fall apart completely when she has to make big decisions that involve sacrifice. She will completely lose access to her ability to reason as a result, and if she didn't have a calm head to settle her down, is prone to making very terrible emotionally charged decisions. I simply don't feel that I could use her as an emotional outlet if I had my own serious issues. I have to bear a disproportionate amount of the emotional stress (both hers and mine) in order to keep things going smoothly.

Fortunately, I have outlets in sports (I do love my sports) and in meditation that I can turn to when I have issues. But in the context of emotional propensities between men and women, I do not think that my girlfriend and I are unique by any stretch. Men often feel greater responsibility for keeping everything stable, and so take a stoic face, and the girl sees the stoicism as something she can habitually lean on in her own moments of weakness. The man sees his girl so open to displaying her weaknesses, and doesn't trust her strength.

Meh, I'm rambling.
 

petite

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The articles linked to were quite interesting to read, although I found that I don't quite fit into the categories they describe.

While I've definitely had arguments with girls I've dated, every relationship has been pretty healthy in terms of giving space, expressing affection, and resolving conflict. I do think that to a certain extent our perceptions of "right" behavior in a relationship are modeled by our parents. My own parents always handled conflicts between the two of them (at least in front of the kids) as mature adults - there was never emotional blackmail/bullshit, there was always search for a consensus, and there was always mutual respect.

I was unsure if you were responding to my post or the OP here but I thought that you might be responding to me. If you are, I am unsure of what you mean. There is no such thing as a relationship without arguments. The point of Dr. Gottman's research is that how you handle your arguments is absolutely important when it comes to relationship longevity. Couples whose arguments always escalated are doomed to fail. As long as your arguments don't cause your partner's heart rate and blood pressure to rise, or you recognize when you are stressing your partner out during an argument and you know how to back off and de-escalate, then you are arguing respectfully and in a way that preserves and strengthens your relationship. You really must listen to the radio program. While Ira Glass interviews Dr. Gottman, he plays clips of couples arguing from their laboratory, and Dr. Gottman explains what's going right and wrong, what indicates that a couple is doomed. It's very interesting.
 
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TheRob

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Freakin' A FINALLY another woman that does this. I thought I was weird and should have been a guy or something:rolleyes:

the majority of women do this but because society lies to us and brainwashes us to believe women aer the best communicators out there we believe it can't be so
 

petite

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the majority of women do this but because society lies to us and brainwashes us to believe women aer the best communicators out there we believe it can't be so

Retreating when there's conflict doesn't mean that you're not a good communicator, it means that you feel more comfortable avoiding conflict, just as long as you aren't stonewalling. As someone who has been exposed to men who can become violent when angry, out of self-preservation I also instinctively avoid conflict if that conflict is causing tempers to flair. This doesn't mean that there's no discussion or communication once everyone is calm again.

Stonewalling is another matter. That's when you refuse to discuss something with your partner out of stubbornness and you shut them out. That is a hostile way of refusing to discuss an issue. That's not communicating and it indicates a relationship that is doomed.
 
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Bbucko

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Could this study have anything to do with the new "emo" type of young man?

No.

I've always known that men are emotionally invested in relationships. What a stupid myth!

This is probably related to the research by the Gottman Institute that shows that men are more affected by conflict in a relationship and are slower to recover from it than women are, in men their blood pressure and heart rate takes 3x longer to come down to their normal levels after a fight. It's one of the reasons why couples who can handle their problems in a non-combative and non-aggressive way are much more likely to survive.

QFT

But once these guys found themselves in a relationship, they were thoroughly invested in it. In generally, they were very happy to have found a girlfriend, and loved being in a relationship. They'd lose interest in social activities and neglect the rest of their friends, just wanting to be alone with her. They'd put their own needs and desires second, and put all kinds of effort in to paying attention to her and trying to keep her happy. Contrary to the stereotype, I think they wanted to be with their girlfriend as often as possible, sometimes to the point where the girlfriends were feeling a bit smothered. (I'm sure there are many guys who are not like this, but I've never been friends with one.)

Again, QFMFT

As someone whose emotionalism has been compared to "a widow a the Wailing Wall", I've found that men, as much as women, are as unprepared for and and as unwelcoming of men's emotions.

Men are expected to be stoic, and any slip of the mask is seen as a sign of weakness. People claim to want to see men's vulnerabilities until they are manifest. Suddenly they become entirely unappealing.

Men die younger because of all the internalization. If anything else were even remotely appealing then it would change. The fact that it hasn't speaks volumes.
 
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