Study: pumps don't work to enlarge penis

[INS]

Sorry, but 1.5cm is nothing and well within the range of measurement error and/or "hopeful" measuring.

I don't buy it.

That's not how statistics and studies work, btw. One's standardizes measuring ways, and judges if the changes in measures are statistically significant. Things like p value can help judge such things. Measuring errors tend to be minimized greatly in such studies.


Another measure of a good study is its ability to be replicated. Traction devices have shown to increase length even in cases where length correction wasn't the objective (example: in peyronie's disease)

 

[INS]

Also, the study marinera posted was for the erect length post implant. Implants have been known to reduce size, so for a normal man, the increase is likely to be greater than 1.5 cm

 

[INS]

Here's a quote from Mr Marinera's study:

"
The most common complaint following
penile prosthesis implantation is diminished penile
length. This has been shown to occur in up to 72%
of men and has a reported mean postoperative
erect length loss of 0.8 cm but may be up to 5 cm"

A mean loss of 0.8 cm happens as a result of penis implant.

If a implant post operative size increase was 1.5 cm erect length compared to normal loss, then the mean gain would be a lot higher for a normal person.

 

[hzs3fg]

That's not how statistics and studies work, btw. One's standardizes measuring ways, and judges if the changes in measures are statistically significant. Things like p value can help judge such things. Measuring errors tend to be minimized greatly in such studies.


Another measure of a good study is its ability to be replicated. Traction devices have shown to increase length even in cases where length correction wasn't the objective (example: in peyronie's disease)

There is not a single traction device "study" out there worth the paper it is printed on.

 

[INS]

There is not a single traction device "study" out there worth the paper it is printed on.

Peer reviewed journals of reputable urology studies not good enough now?

 

[hzs3fg]

Peer reviewed journals of reputable urology studies not good enough now?

The only traction device studies I have seen were paid for by manufacturers, were too short, had too few participants, and no long term follow-up. And, peer review is not always what it seems to be.

At any rate, anyone can "grow" their penis by a centimeter. It's just a matter of stretching "lazy" ligaments to their full, normal, potential. No different then improving your range of motion by practicing leg stretches.

That's why all of these studies end after such a short time - because manufacturers know that there is no continuous long term growth potential. A few months of any scheme - traction, jelqing, whatever - might get you a centimeter, but no amount of continued effort will move you much beyond that point.

 

[INS]

The only traction device studies I have seen were paid for by manufacturers, were too short, had too few participants, and no long term follow-up. And, peer review is not always what it seems to be.

At any rate, anyone can "grow" their penis by a centimeter. It's just a matter of stretching "lazy" ligaments to their full, normal, potential. No different then improving your range of motion by practicing leg stretches.

That's why all of these studies end after such a short time - because manufacturers know that there is no continuous long term growth potential. A few months of any scheme - traction, jelqing, whatever - might get you a centimeter, but no amount of continued effort will move you much beyond that point.

Paid for by manufacturer's. Okay. Reasonable point.

Here are some that weren't paid for by manufacturers, as they mentioned no conflict of interest (you are required to do so, if you want to get published, if you are funded by the manufacturer). You can access the whole study and there's a section "conflict of interest".:

Normal penises:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20102448

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18990153

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20438558

Peyronie's penises:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_shortening_after_Peyronie's_disease_surgery

(there's a few more, but I cba to find em)

Example of conflict of interest is in this type of study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18373527

Here's how they put it:

"Acknowledgment
Study sponsorship by FastSize, LLC.
Corresponding Author:
Laurence A. Levine, MD,
1725 W. Harrison Ave., Suite 352, Chicago, IL 60612.
Tel: 312-563-5000; Fax: 312-563-5007; E-mail:
drlevine@hotmail.com
Conflict of Interest:
Consultant to FastSize, LLC."

were too short

What would be an adequate length of time for you? How long do you have to stretch, in you opinion, before no gains further would be seen as a result of stretching? A lot of studies are in the 4-6 month range.

had too few participants

If you made a meta study of all these studies, you'd get a pretty decent total sample size of atleast 50 patients.

and no long term follow-up

At any rate, anyone can "grow" their penis by a centimeter. It's just a matter of stretching "lazy" ligaments to their full, normal, potential. No different then improving your range of motion by practicing leg stretches

This one had a 6 month follow up:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18990153

IIEF scores weren't affected. Penis size was lost by 0.09cm, after a total gain of 1.7 cm. If you intuitive theory about simply "stretching" your things were true, then the loss would be far greater.

Also, quick anatomy lesson. When you do leg stretches or whatever, you aren't changing length, or elasticity of your muscles, not by a significant amount and only transient due to viscoelastic nature (lasts for a few hours). What is actually being changed is your nervous system's tolerance to pain. Research Muscle Extensibility vs Stretch tolerance and muscle length:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3273886/

They do the tests with loading of the muscle with standardized weights and check the amount of force required to achieve a certain range of motion. The force required doesn't seem to change much, but the subjects' pain tolerance is what really changes.

Also, 6 months of no training would easily get rid of most of this gain, if there wasn't actual change/growth, but that is not the case.

So that theory falls apart.

That's why all of these studies end after such a short time - because manufacturers know that there is no continuous long term growth potential

I hope you answered the earlier question on how long before stretching stops increasing length, simply because of "training lazy ligaments". The studies that recorded the month to month change, showed that in about 3 months, the change was the highest. After that however, the change slowed down, but continued nonetheless. So perhaps your "lazy ligaments" theory applies in the first 3 months, which PE community calls newbie gains, but later on, the slower gains continue in the order of 1-2 mm/month.

However, a case study done:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21091884

... showed that a gain of 4.4 cm in corpora size indicated by penile prosthetic implact after a year of work was achieved (with about 2.3 cm at 6 months with a combination of vacuum+traction)

So this complaint also falls apart.

 

[Gorge St]

I've never seen Moez trying to sell something, neither I have tried to sell something. Thundersplace is a free PE forum which sells nothing. I have seen more people having gains after having tried it for some months than people reporting no gains.

Really? Give a look to this:

Traction Therapy for Men with Shortened Penis Prior to Penile Prosthesis Implantation: A Pilot Study
Laurence Levine - James Rybak
.......
Daily average device use was 2–4 hours and for up to 4 months. .... Seventy percent had measured erect length gain compared with baseline pre‐traction SPL up to 1.5 cm
..
http://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(15)33590-6/fulltext

Effectivity of penis pumps is not even discussed anymore among Doctors with specific knowledge of this stuff; this is a good summary
http://www.journal-ina.com/article....;volume=1;issue=1;spage=4;epage=10;aulast=Lin

But, really, why the fact that systematic traction will lengthen the penis should need a proof? Every living tissue is known to become longer and thicker if subjected to tensile load within required parameters : muscle, tendons, blood vessels, bones.... everything. Being the penis an exception: this would need to be proven, because it is quite singular exception. Why everyt bodypart but the penis can be enlarged? Is it a Cahtolic Commandment or what?

Yawn...same old, same old.

If you increase yours post the proof.It's that simple. If no proof= didn't happen.

And 1.5cm?

LOL. Ok "expert"

 

[thirdyrock]

If you're looking for proof, I would google insintex. He has an absolutely, positively huge cock and (a) nobody is born that huge (b) he was huge to begin with, now he is impossibly big that no woman can really take him. He has a huge fetish with pumping.

 

[Methface]

All this talk about extenders is great BUT can anyone actually get any studies on penis pumps enlarging? Because there is only one study that i know of conducted by Department of Urology at St Peter's Hospitals and the Institute of Urology in London which even states that it enlarges the penis. I'mstill trying to find it.

POINT THAT I MAKING IS THAT FIND STUDIES ON THE PUMPS

 

[Sexycplnj123]

If you're looking for proof, I would google insintex. He has an absolutely, positively huge cock and (a) nobody is born that huge (b) he was huge to begin with, now he is impossibly big that no woman can really take him. He has a huge fetish with pumping.

Keep dreaming

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8558654

 

[ronin001]

I see some of you guys have purchased stock in penis pump / penis extension companies. So keep on advertising

 

[tripod]

The body will always try to return to stasis... a normalcy of sorts.

You run and your body changes due to the running but you have to keep running or those changes will more or less revert back to the way they were before you started running.

Pilates can change the body a bit... make it more flexible, make the posture better and allow the limbs to appear to lengthen in appearance due to the increased mobility and better posture...but stop doing pilates and the body will revert back to it's pre-pilates configuration with reduced flexibility, motility and diminished posture.

Pumping works... it's just not permanent just like NOTHING that has to do with the body is permanent. The body doesn't fucking work that way... it seeks to return to stasis. I have to cinch with a Stallion Cushion immediately after finishing my pumping session or the pump will immediately dissipate and be completely gone within 24 hours.

Pumping is like a bigger penis "Cinderella style". You run around with a fat carriage and looking all spiffy but that all changes with the strike of midnight.

Pumpers like to pump like bodybuilders like to lift weights... there are gains involved but most adherents don't experience any gains in both endeavors... WHY?!?!? Because the body resists change... HOW?!?!? By bio-molecular processes that seek to return the tissues, organ or body to stasis. If specialized techniques and or equipment is used... even the hardest gainers can make gains though.

It is dangerous just like lifting weights is dangerous... a dude just killed himself when his bar came down on his neck while bench pressing last week... pumping without a gauge is very dangerous... ignoring the gauge and using high vacuum pressures is dangerous too.

Even manual PE isn't permanent... you have to keep it up or the body will return to stasis. There is no such thing as permanence anyway... it's a flaw of the human consciousness to even entertain the existence of permanence.

 

[DarkEngine]

The whole point of pumps were to help with ED anyway.
That said, my understanding is that pumps are typically used late into PE to help cement the gains that have been invoked with manual exercises which is partly why using a pump too early can make gains with simple exercises harder to achieve long-term.

 

[Moez???]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8558654

one man's issues are not how studies work.

but stop doing pilates and the body will revert back to it's pre-pilates configuration with reduced flexibility, motility and diminished posture.

That's not true. It'll go back to the state of bad posture if you go back to slouching and the like. Additionally, the body is permanently changed when doing a certain type of exercise for a long period of time. It's why people who use to weight lift will lose their muscle mass, but they'll never go back to being at their smallest, and if they get back into weight lifting, they get back to their peak much more quickly than someone who just started weight lifting.

Pumping works... it's just not permanent just like NOTHING that has to do with the body is permanent.

also not true. Pumping consistently will increase the penis size, and then if you stop, sure, it'll shrink down slightly, but it'll always be larger than your starting size. I haven't pumped for 3 months and have not lost any size yet.

By bio-molecular processes that seek to return the tissues, organ or body to stasis.

by doing any type of body modification, piercing, tattoos, weight lifting, almost anything, you shift your body's "stasis" to something new. Your "statis" does not remain the same forever. Even with something like braces, teeth aren't even cellular tissue, yet you can alter the shape of them and your jaw. The human body is adaptable and malleable, not extremely, but it is.

There is no such thing as permanence anyway... it's a flaw of the human consciousness to even entertain the existence of permanence.

yes, but that disproves what you say. Your point of stasis changes just as much as anything else in life does.

manual exercises are actually much more efficient at PE as well, pumping is moderate at best, but really fun anyway.

 

[tripod]

Your point of stasis changes just as much as anything else in life does.

Actually the "stasis" of the body that I am referring to is the configuration and composition of the tissues of the body... which is regulated and dictated by DNA and RNA.

There are things like "muscle memory" which is a physiological and neurological phenomenon related to greater communication between the CNS and the muscle tissue... after weight training, the muscle atrophies by decreasing it's cross sectional area significantly but the increased myo-nuclei within the cell doesn't diminish. Not everyone can make the necessary changes in their RNA to increase the myo-nuclei and cross sectional size in their muscle cells and cannot make hypertrophic gains like others can... hard gainers... there are easy gainers, hard gainers and then there are the rest of us, which are somewhere in between, yet fall within a certain set of "normal" ranges.

The smooth muscle cells of the penis might possibly respond to external stimuli in relative fashion but there are no studies which can corroborate this to my knowledge.

I tend to disagree with the blanket statement that you can enact permanent changes that last after cessation of the transformative activity... it varies greatly and not everyone responds the same way to external stimuli due to a variety of factors.

Although since my penile hypertrophy does fall within a normal range, I have experienced a degree of "muscle memory" due to pumping and the maximum sizes that I can pump up to keeps slightly increasing over time even though I quit from anywhere from a couple of weeks to several months at a time due to lifestyle considerations, commitments etc.

I know people that have pumped for years and haven't made ANY gains whatsoever. By gains, I mean the maximum size you can consistently pump up to without stressing your tissues too hard.

... and then there are guys like you who seem to be easy gainers and can maintain a great deal of hypertrophy and cross sectional size...WHICH IS NOT NORMAL. The people that can do pilates, quit and then experience the same sustained benefits are rare and it's not the norm. Of course, the longer and more intensely you do anything can have an effect on the outcome... so that should also be taken into consideration. The 1000 hour rule can some into play here... the mind/body connection is very mysterious and powerful. I have no doubt that you worked very hard for your gains and hard work is always the best route to making any sort of meaningful changes.

It must be nice to be you but the rest of us have to be just regular ol' us... I am speaking to the average person's ability, not genetic freaks or incredibly driven outliers.

 

[Snakebyte]

Fascinating that the pro-faction delivers tons of proof while the contra-faction just insults and shows no signs of intellect.
What I don't get: Why do people still bother with those morons who have no fucking clue at all and won't accept the shitload of proof?

 

[thirdyrock]

Keep dreaming

Dreaming of what, exactly?

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

one man's issues are not how studies work.



That's not true. It'll go back to the state of bad posture if you go back to slouching and the like. Additionally, the body is permanently changed when doing a certain type of exercise for a long period of time. It's why people who use to weight lift will lose their muscle mass, but they'll never go back to being at their smallest, and if they get back into weight lifting, they get back to their peak much more quickly than someone who just started weight lifting.



also not true. Pumping consistently will increase the penis size, and then if you stop, sure, it'll shrink down slightly, but it'll always be larger than your starting size. I haven't pumped for 3 months and have not lost any size yet.



by doing any type of body modification, piercing, tattoos, weight lifting, almost anything, you shift your body's "stasis" to something new. Your "statis" does not remain the same forever. Even with something like braces, teeth aren't even cellular tissue, yet you can alter the shape of them and your jaw. The human body is adaptable and malleable, not extremely, but it is.



yes, but that disproves what you say. Your point of stasis changes just as much as anything else in life does.

manual exercises are actually much more efficient at PE as well, pumping is moderate at best, but really fun anyway.

Do you have any actual proof that pumps increase penis size?