Submission Vs Dominance...

[Bbucko]

Dominant! A sub would NEVER be the one deciding what to do. Plus in your story John doesn't say a word, wich is NOT what a dom would do. A sub would also probably do a "presentation" stance offering themselves up to the dom if trying to begin sexual service... The only way that Sam would be the sub in this case is A) it was agreed upon earlier and they were just doing as ordered B) they know their Dom so well and for so long that John would have allowed it to happen in this manner, but still I have a hard time seeing it happen this way.

I find it interesting how so many people equate being top with being Dominant. Being a top has nothing to do with dominance.



you're adding a wrench into it now... You didn't exactly say that Sam enjoyed sucking John's dick BECAUSE it pleased John. You implied it pleased Sam to do so. So now if you are saying that Sam is trying to please John more than themselves, then this is not a true dom/sub situation at all, just has some of its characteristics. But I would still contend that Sam is dom, even though somehow they are seeking to please their sub (which in truth any caring and good-natured Dom would want at some deep level anyway)

With all due respect, you have a rather shallow understanding of the Sub/Dom dynamic, and from what you posted above, I really hope you're a Dom and not a Sub, otherwise you'll wind up getting hurt.

Over 30 years ago I learned that, contrary to any intuitive understanding or superficial exploration of the subject, it's the Submissive who holds all the power in such scenes. It's the Dominant who needs to prove him/herself worthy of the honor, and it's the Submissive who sets the limits, not the other way around.

Sam is, as Rec pointed out, a Powerbottom, which is aggressive submission; I am well aware of the type because I favor them in my play. I loathe passivity though I insist on submissiveness.

 

[jason_els]

But now, here's the question... Sam's actions are dominant, but isn't he being used to please John? I mean, Sam's mouth is caressing his dick, John's cock is deep inside the asshole of Sam. Doesn't that sound submissive?

Sam knows that John loves that Sam want to please him. Sam gets off on making John feel good, which in turn gets Sam off.

Acts aren't dominant or submissive, people are. Sam is the Dom here as he's controlling the scene.

 

[rob_just_rob]

But now, here's the question... Sam's actions are dominant, but isn't he being used to please John? I mean, Sam's mouth is caressing his dick, John's cock is deep inside the asshole of Sam. Doesn't that sound submissive?

That's the beauty of D/s play. The ambiguity... what can seem dominant behaviour to some can be submissive behaviour to another... one or more little nuances can completely change the nature of an act.

 

[Lex]

As usual, Bbucko speaks words of wisdom.

Is it possible to be a top but submissive? Or a bottom but dominant?

Yes it is possible and does occur with great frequency.

I expect a "top" to be a little (or a lot!) dominant, but based on experience, the guys that want to do the fucking and that want to be sucked are not always the dominant type. Some guys just don't enjoy sucking or being fucked.

My first BF was a power bottom daddy type. He was "in charge" in bed but a total bottom.

 

[jeff black]

That's the beauty of D/s play. The ambiguity... what can seem dominant behaviour to some can be submissive behaviour to another... one or more little nuances can completely change the nature of an act.

See, that's what fascinates me. I don't think I could ever enjoy being slapped into one specific role when it comes to being dominant or submissive. I like the idea of being the "power top" or the "power bottom", as long as I get to enjoy myself and show off how eager I am to enjoy things.

With all due respect, you have a rather shallow understanding of the Sub/Dom dynamic, and from what you posted above, I really hope you're a Dom and not a Sub, otherwise you'll wind up getting hurt.

Over 30 years ago I learned that, contrary to any intuitive understanding or superficial exploration of the subject, it's the Submissive who holds all the power in such scenes. It's the Dominant who needs to prove him/herself worthy of the honor, and it's the Submissive who sets the limits, not the other way around.

Sam is, as Rec pointed out, a Powerbottom, which is aggressive submission; I am well aware of the type because I favor them in my play. I loathe passivity though I insist on submissiveness.

So, what are you are basically saying is that Sam is a powerbottom, which is still submissive, but he's aggressive in his role as the power bottom and that being agressive and being the bottom is still possible. Good.

Is it possible to be a top but submissive? Or a bottom but dominant?

I expect a "top" to be a little (or a lot!) dominant, but based on experience, the guys that want to do the fucking and that want to be sucked are not always the dominant type. Some guys just don't enjoy sucking or being fucked.

In the post that started this thread, Sam was clearly a bottom, at least that evening. Hard to say anything about John, because he just let it all happen. Maybe John is also a bottom, but he was letting Sam call the shots that night?

HB

See, I wondered about your original question, but it's been answered now, so I'm feeling a bit more clear.

As usual, Bbucko speaks words of wisdom.

Yes it is possible and does occur with great frequency.


My first BF was a power bottom daddy type. He was "in charge" in bed but a total bottom.

And that works lex? You didn't mind being the "submissive, let things just happen, doing what you were told" guy? did you ever find that you were interested in taking the control back, being dominant?

 

[Lex]

...
And that works lex? You didn't mind being the "submissive, let things just happen, doing what you were told" guy? did you ever find that you were interested in taking the control back, being dominant?

It worked at the time. Well, as Bbucko said, as long as I was fucking him, I was never in control. Becoming versatile really helped me understand this. I have far more control when I bottom. You simply can not fuck me unless I want you to do so. Period.

With my hubby, we are both versatile and both have dominant and less dominant sides to us (it all depends on chemistry--not anyone can bring out submission in me). He can order me around in bed, whether he is on top or not. Same with me. So even when he is on top and being dominant, I am in control of the scene. When he is on bottom and being submissive to me, he is still in control (while giving me the illusion of control and power).

I hope this makes some sense.

 

[Bbucko]

See, that's what fascinates me. I don't think I could ever enjoy being slapped into one specific role when it comes to being dominant or submissive. I like the idea of being the "power top" or the "power bottom", as long as I get to enjoy myself and show off how eager I am to enjoy things.


So, what are you are basically saying is that Sam is a powerbottom, which is still submissive, but he's aggressive in his role as the power bottom and that being agressive and being the bottom is still possible. Good.




See, I wondered about your original question, but it's been answered now, so I'm feeling a bit more clear.




And that works lex? You didn't mind being the "submissive, let things just happen, doing what you were told" guy? did you ever find that you were interested in taking the control back, being dominant?

I think this makes sense if you approach it from the standpoint of limits, because unless you're sociopathic/suicidal, everybody's got some. If two people are evenly-matched and compatible (a prerequisite to successful sex), then it's the bottom who sets the limits, not the top.

Consider the use of safe words. They are code that an activity has crossed a limit from pleasure into something else. It is the bottom who not only sets the safe word but who actually says it, stopping the activity.

Again: the top only has whatever power that the bottom allows him to have. Anything else negates consent and turns pleasure into something much darker and more dangerous.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I think this makes sense if you approach it from the standpoint of limits, because unless you're sociopathic/suicidal, everybody's got some. If two people are evenly-matched and compatible (a prerequisite to successful sex), then it's the bottom who sets the limits, not the top.

Consider the use of safe words. They are code that an activity has crossed a limit from pleasure into something else. It is the bottom who not only sets the safe word but who actually says it, stopping the activity.

Again: the top only has whatever power that the bottom allows him to have. Anything else negates consent and turns pleasure into something much darker and more dangerous.

Surely the power relationship is reciprocal and symbiotic, afterall neither is really going to get off without the other so both consent to allow the other to set and define various parameters. I mean most submissive bottoms would be pretty bored if their tops followed nothing but the strictest script and most dominant tops would be pretty fed up with a totally passive bottom who never got even a bit proactive.

Of course their are those who this would be most agreeable to... but since we seem to be speaking generally.

 

[Bbucko]

Surely the power relationship is reciprocal and symbiotic, afterall neither is really going to get off without the other so both consent to allow the other to set and define various parameters. I mean most submissive bottoms would be pretty bored if their tops followed nothing but the strictest script and most dominant tops would be pretty fed up with a totally passive bottom who never got even a bit proactive.

Of course their are those who this would be most agreeable to... but since we seem to be speaking generally.

I don't play by scripts (ever), but I do play with a menu, if you will; what's on the menu is discussed before anything starts. That means that if, when I say that I'm interested in WS, the bottom will likely either agree wholeheartedly or else put in some qualifier (a big one is up his ass but not in his mouth, for instance). Or when discussing deep assplay, he might be interested in toys but not my fist (perfectly acceptable): what I don't mention is that I enjoy DP with toys and if he's open enough will attempt it without "asking permission"

There is nothing deader than sex with no surprises, and I purposefully keep much of my agenda obscure, though, again, my menu is quite explicit. That doesn't mean that I insist on doing everything all the time. It's most definitely a dance; the top leads but it's the bottom who decides on the song. But since I'm loath to play by scripts, it does take a leap of faith on the part of a bottom willing to play with me.

Last summer I met a guy online who wanted to meet for a beer before we did anything. As we were talking, he asked me about how I feel about bondage, as it's conspicuously absent on my profile; I explained that I dislike it because it renders the bottom too passive.
"Besides," I said, "If I want you held down I can use my body".
As he was 30 pounds heavier and about 1/2 a foot taller than me, he gave me a smirk and said that he could easily overcome me.
"That's not the point." I replied, "If you consent to being restrained, then it shouldn't matter how I decide to do it. I am the top."
:wink:
We wound up have one of the most explosive encounters either of us had ever had.

Of course, there are some tops who insist on strict passivity from their bottoms, and there are bottoms who can't be happy unless they direct everything (gawd knows I've played with more than one of those), but even the most passive bottom is still the one who sets the limits unless he's suicidal

 

[jpk338]

The more important question is: Jeff, do you think you were submussive or dominant while taking that dick?

I have been the dominant one in taking a big cock many times.one time awhile back this guy at the beach had a huge cock and i wanted it. so i asked him to fuck me . we went into the woods and did the deed. He was the submissive one.
i never had the courage since.

 

[malakos]

Ummm... not all sex involves domination. There is nothing in this hypothetical encounter that clearly establishes a D/s dynamic. Therefore we don't know whether Sam is the dominant or submissive partner, and it's possible he/she is neither.

 

[jpk338]

True...it just that it spills over into my sexual life. i have always been the submissive in all my relationships/friendships. i have been offered my own business many times and i said no each time. i don't know what that means though.