Such a thing as too independent?

LeeEJ

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I'm going to address this, too, since I tend to think like those guys...

EagleCowboy, Monster, HugoB: You guys say that and I'm sure in your own way you really mean it. The sad, ugly truth is men like hanging out with independent women and you luv it when we are your fuck buddy or FWB. But you never marry the truly independent woman do you?:confused::cool::rolleyes:. On the rare occassion that you do marry an independent woman within 5-10 years you start complaining about what a controlling bitch she is. Or you start cheating with someone younger and dumber and far less independent than the woman you married.:mad:

You've got to understand that a controlling bitch and an independent woman are two completely different things.

A controlling bitch is NOT independent, but needy. She needs to have somebody conform to her own little universe.

An independent woman does not need to make anybody fit into her own idea of the world.

So, no, a truly independent woman is not a controlling bitch.
 

Notthe7

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TK: I'm with you. I'm constantly getting critiqued that perhaps if I was a little less independent men would be more attracted to me.

Yeah and when the penis flees who do you have?

Yourself.

There is, however, a big different between being independent and being downright stubborn, ya know?
 

Osiris

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TK: I'm with you. I'm constantly getting critiqued that perhaps if I was a little less independent men would be more attracted to me.

Yeah and when the penis flees who do you have?

Yourself.

There is, however, a big different between being independent and being downright stubborn, ya know?

I think the thing is you are independent, but you are still kind to people and you know how to appreciate help if offered and how to turn someone down politely. What a lot of people actually mean when they say too independent is arrogant and rude. I have seen a lot of macho guys drive women to this by being arrogant and testosterone driven.

My girl will be independent and she will be gracious and kind. Much like I feel you are Notthe7. She will also know how to lay a guy low if he tries to "put her in her place". If she has someone like you as an independent role model, she'll do well. :smile:
 

Not_Punny

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I am fiercely independent.

But I don't know, TK. I don't mind a guy fawning over me once in a while.

Maybe it was just a rotten, stuffed shirt of a party? (I've been to sooooooooooooooooooooooo many of those!)
 
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Seriously? I went out to a xmas party as someones date. I was bored most of the time and not used to being catered to. I'm one of those girls that can do it all myself. I actually dislike people serving me and stuff, sheesh let me do it myself.

What do you ladies think? Is there such a thing as too independent?

I've been with so many people like you that now any chick I try and date thinks I'm a complete cunt because I don't do things for them.

Women spent so long trying to be equal (which, of course, they deserve to be) and now they don't know why.

Oh, the irony!
lol
 

Principessa

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Am I the only one who finds it weird she was at an office X-mas Party where she had to bring her own booze? :confused:
Think_Kink has a lot going for her but a hell of a lot left still to learn. What ManlyBanisters and one or two others noticed is that her behavior has nothing to do with independence, womens lib or anything else. It's just who she is right now, which is fine. :smile: However, that person has no business being on a 'date' where conventional manners are not just expected but needed. I'm sure anyone watching their verbal exchange thought the poor man had chosen to date either Nell or a schizophrenic. :redface: Being your own woman does not mean doing so at the expense and embarassment of others.
 

B_Think_Kink

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Well - I don't see what the age difference has to do with it - but anyway - maybe if your life brings a date like this your way again you can let the guy know in advance what behaviour you are comfortable with and what behaviour you find clostrophobic / uncomfortable.

I still believe there is no such thing as too independant but I believe in putting people at ease socially and I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Solidarity - ah - yes, um - think you might be barking up the wrong dictionary there, sugar.

Solidarity: A union of interests, purposes, or sympathies among members of a group; fellowship of responsibilities and interests

Do you mean, maybe, solitary?

Solitary: Existing, living, or going without others; alone

Or perhaps Solipsism woud suit you best :biggrin1: - yes - I think you could be a fantastic Solipsist, it's something I aspire to myself.

Solipsism: The belief that only oneself and one's experience exists. Solipsism is the extreme consequence of believing that knowledge must be founded on inner, personal states of experience, and then failing to find a bridge whereby they can inform us of anything beyond themselves. Solipsism of the present moment extends its scepticism even to one's own past states, so that all that is left is me, now.
Solitary I'm sorry. But yes Solipsism sounds good to me.
I sat on my previous post for so long that I missed the further discussion.. lol
Okay, yeah, I wouldn't accept a drink from him, either.

Are you really 20? I wouldn't offer to buy you a drink myself -- that's just weird & creepy.
I'm 19 actually.
Am I the only one who finds it weird she was at an office X-mas Party where she had to bring her own booze? :confused:
Think_Kink has a lot going for her but a hell of a lot left still to learn. What ManlyBanisters and one or two others noticed is that her behavior has nothing to do with independence, womens lib or anything else. It's just who she is right now, which is fine. :smile: However, that person has no business being on a 'date' where conventional manners are not just expected but needed. I'm sure anyone watching their verbal exchange thought the poor man had chosen to date either Nell or a schizophrenic. :redface: Being your own woman does not mean doing so at the expense and embarassment of others.
Cash bar? or do you have those in the states? I hate you so much right now it's not even funny. There you go making your idealizations on what you think happened. I turned him down politely and quietly thank you. I have manners, even if I've never been on a date before. I'd seen this guy like 3 times previously, never said more than 10 words to him..

Fuck why am I bothering to explain myself to you... you just open your mouth and say whatever the fuck you think it is that you know anyhow.
 

Mr. Snakey

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Seriously? I went out to a xmas party as someones date. I was bored most of the time and not used to being catered to. I'm one of those girls that can do it all myself. I actually dislike people serving me and stuff, sheesh let me do it myself.

What do you ladies think? Is there such a thing as too independent?
Its fine your independent. Dont get upset when someone wants to get you a drink at a party or hold a door for you. They are only trying to be nice. Stay independent and try understand they are just trying to be polite.
 

LeeEJ

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I'm 19 actually.

You said earlier that it seemed like everyone else was acting like he was trying to take you home..

I'll bet that they were actually laughing at him behind his back.

"Psst, check out who he's got his eye on this year... she's gonna Heisman* him like the others before since he's such a loser.. Yeah, man go for it! *snicker* what a douchebag.. lol"

*Heisman - verb - to push away, to reject, embodied by the stiff-arm pose of the Heisman Trophy :wink:
 

lafever

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If you`re not using him then you`ve lost yet another avenue of independence.

shools out kiddies


lafever:cool:
 

B_Jennuine73

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I think, like anything, a balance is needed to be healthy. It is possible to overdo anything, patience, courtesy, independence...

As long as you are not hurting yourself or others, directly or indirectly, you are fine.




njqt- you have been unnecessarily harsh to TK. I know you are the type to say what you are thinking but I am wondering how this topic has obviously rubbed you the wrong way? Must be something personal?
 

AlteredEgo

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If a friend wants to buy you a drink and you refuse it even after the friend insists that they really want to it's not independence, it's rudeness. Why not let friends give you small gifts? It's not like he tried to buy you a car. In my opinion a flower here, a toy for my cat there, a drink, a pretzel... these are kinds of things which can be accepted from a man I'm casually dating without compromising my independence. I see them as gifts, and when so inclined, I feel free to hand out these sort of gifts myself.
 

Ed69

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What do you ladies think? Is there such a thing as too independent? Yes, there is and I think you crossed the line.Well I was scolded for not letting him buy me a drink. As well you should be! He didn't ask how much your dowry was? Or how even your needlepoint stitches are? The man wanted to buy you a beer! Chill out!:mad: I make enough money to support myself. Uh, no you don't. You are 20 and still live at home. When you move out and start paying for everything then you can say you support yourself.

Oh you poor dumb child. :redface: <--- I say that with the utmost affection and love. Stop reading the Feminine Mystique and be a woman for chrissakes!:mad:

You declined him buying you a drink cos you are 'independent'?
Does that not sound a bit silly to you? It sounds friggin' stupid to me. Him buying you a drink is a friendly gesture, he's not saying 'you are a woman, you must be poor, let me pay' Agreed!

If not letting someone buy you a drink is what you consider independant then I think that maybe you are taking it a little too far. That's not independence. Why the hell not let the guy buy you a drink - then you buy him one back - it's a new-fangled concept called 'a round' :tongue:
By having people serve you do you mean waiting staff or do you mean your date wanted to get stuff for you? And what's wrong with that either? Not a damn thing. :cool: You can equally do the same for him - it isn't sexist or an assault on your independance - it's another new-fangled concept we have called 'courtesy'. Amen! Lest we forget the man in question was her date for the evening. Dating protocol dictates it would have been in bad manners for him not to offer to buy her a drink. I don't believe the behaviour you are outlining is independance. No she is acting like a child raised by wolves. :frown1::redface:

And God forbid he should make the mistake of opening a door for her!Buy a good vibe TK your gonna need it!:rolleyes:

 

LeeEJ

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If a friend wants to buy you a drink and you refuse it even after the friend insists that they really want to it's not independence, it's rudeness.

Um, I don't know about that in this case.

If I'm reading this right, it was a company/office party, and the guy offering her drinks was nearly MY age (she'd be underage if she were in the US). Plus, other people were expecting him to try taking her home, or at least they were joking about it.

I'd like to hear from TK on Monday after she gets back to work. If it's like any other office, I'll bet that her coworkers have some gossip about the guy.
 

Linda Sue

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I'm not sure if "independent" is the right word. I am extremely independent, but I expect to be treated like a lady. Small courtesies not only hold civilization together, but they can be very sexy. If a man holds a door for me, he is not trying to take away my right to vote. Nothing is a bigger turn-off than a boorish male.

Maybe this guy was more clingy or needy than you want. Or maybe you have intimacy issues that are touched off by this kind of attention. In any case, there are a lot of men out there who will not cater to you.
 

whatireallywant

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I'm not sure if "independent" is the right word. I am extremely independent, but I expect to be treated like a lady. Small courtesies not only hold civilization together, but they can be very sexy. If a man holds a door for me, he is not trying to take away my right to vote. Nothing is a bigger turn-off than a boorish male.

Maybe this guy was more clingy or needy than you want. Or maybe you have intimacy issues that are touched off by this kind of attention. In any case, there are a lot of men out there who will not cater to you.

I have read TK's previous posts and this does seem to be the case. I am very independent (despite my current job situation), but I don't react as she did. Of course, none of the rest of us here were there so we really don't know exactly what happened. I would hold off on giving an opinion on the situation myself since I don't know exactly what happened.