Such a thing as too independent?

[TheRob]

speaking from a male view, YES.
Independence is very sexy to me but it's also scary.
the reason it's scary is despite all the action movie bs and feminist agenda women are just NOT fully capable of doing everything in the world whilst 'I am woman hear me roar' plays in the backround...
and Independence is the name women like to give stubborness to be honest. I will try to help a girl with something and she'll fight me on it, and it'll be something totally stupid.

this one girl in particular, in fact she is basically the only girl I have this problem with. She is so 'Independent' she will refuse help when she actually needs it.
Not to get too deep into it but she would rather argue with me when she knows I am right, then just agree.
I have, after a few years of knowing her gotten her to the point where she will cave rather quickly if it is an issue about her health/safety. She has basically consented to let me 'protect' her in that fasion. But just let me try to move some heavy object for her...whew verbal hell to pay.
I guess tho it's better that way then the reverse.

I guess the overall point is, Independence is good but don't react to someone offering you HELP like they are insulting you.

 

[TheRob]

What do you ladies think? Is there such a thing as too independent? Yes, there is and I think you crossed the line.Well I was scolded for not letting him buy me a drink. As well you should be! He didn't ask how much your dowry was? Or how even your needlepoint stitches are? The man wanted to buy you a beer! Chill out! I make enough money to support myself. Uh, no you don't. You are 20 and still live at home. When you move out and start paying for everything then you can say you support yourself.

Oh you poor dumb child. :redface: <--- I say that with the utmost affection and love. Stop reading the Feminine Mystique and be a woman for chrissakes!

You declined him buying you a drink cos you are 'independent'?

Does that not sound a bit silly to you? It sounds friggin' stupid to me. Him buying you a drink is a friendly gesture, he's not saying 'you are a woman, you must be poor, let me pay' Agreed!

If not letting someone buy you a drink is what you consider independant then I think that maybe you are taking it a little too far. That's not independence. Why the hell not let the guy buy you a drink - then you buy him one back - it's a new-fangled concept called 'a round' :tongue:

By having people serve you do you mean waiting staff or do you mean your date wanted to get stuff for you? And what's wrong with that either? Not a damn thing. You can equally do the same for him - it isn't sexist or an assault on your independance - it's another new-fangled concept we have called 'courtesy'. Amen! Lest we forget the man in question was her date for the evening. Dating protocol dictates it would have been in bad manners for him not to offer to buy her a drink. I don't believe the behaviour you are outlining is independance. No she is acting like a child raised by wolves. :frown1::redface:

I don't want to hijack but you said something that rung pretty true to me, women are made uncomfortable by gentlemanlike behavior.

 

[TheRob]

Independence is a good thing to have, but I think what you're referring to is whether or not you feel comfortable with allowing a gentleman to do something for you. I personally have no problem with it, and I can do for him too. Maybe in the future think of it as allowing him the opportunity to show that side of him. I'm in my 40's, so maybe it is more of a generational thing...but I think men admire independent women yet still have the need to protect us.

you hit the nail on the head, for me anyway
that girl I mentioned earlier, I love her independence but I am not interested in having her do something dangerous and or dumb w/out me telling her it is not safe

 

[TheRob]

Fuck you. I didn't ask your opinion on what I did wrong. I don't drink beer thank you, and I have enough class to not take everything I'm offered. I was quite chilled out thanks. And yes I do make enough money to support myself.. but thanks for assuming you know fuck all about my life. I buy everything I want and need.

Don't you call me dumb. Reading what? What the hell are you talking about?!


I declined to let him buy me a drink cause he's 14 years older than me. And I had bought my own.


Dating protocol? Okay lets remember one thing here... I don't date. Raised by wolves, bitch you have some nerve! Sorry I wasn't taught dating etiquette in private school... Sorry I don't feel the need for men to wait on my every whim. If I wanted to hear you're opinion on what I did wrong I would have asked for it. I asked about independence... lets stick to the topic eh.


I don't feel comfortable around men at all. I was abused badly by the only guy in my life that I was close to. My dinner date was 14 years older than me.. I've never been on a date, I don't date because I don't like to be around men. I was under the impression I was going for fun and as a dinner date.. then it got turned around as a date.


I'd be nervous too... it was an office christmas party and everyone was acting like he was taking me home. Solidarity.. as in I'm not getting married and I don't want to live with a partner.

telling someone 'fuck you' then insisting you have class is a VERY good argument. Often I throw the N word about whilst insisting I am not a racist as well, it almost always works.

however having a drink already is a good reason to decline one being bought for you

I'm not quite sure what your problem is in the next point, you asked if you are too Independent. They say you did something wrong, they dont' call it Independence but you do. So the point is you asked if you can be too Independent, you did understand whenyou did that there was a chance someone would post a "Yes" responce right? Cus that is what you are bitching about.

you were under the impression you were going on a dinner date to have fun, but instead it turned into a date. because he wanted to buy you a drink or poor the wine? a dinner date is a date. and you do go on them to have fun. but I'm curiuos if you are uncomfortable around all men why would you think you would have fun with this one? I mean if you felt that you found something special in him and could trust him that's good, but the part of him that you like so much is also the part you didn't want anything to do with. Women are funny that way.

it isunfortunate that you were abused by the only man you where ever close to but the rest of us didn't do anything to you
if you are uncomfortable around all men the problem is 100% definatly YOURS andyou need some therapy.

what everyone else is thinking or acting like has nothing to do with you and him

 

[TheRob]

No.
TK: I'm with you. I'm constantly getting critiqued that perhaps if I was a little less independent men would be more attracted to me.

Yeah and when the penis flees who do you have?

Yourself.

There is, however, a big different between being independent and being downright stubborn, ya know?

thatis what I'm talking about
and your far too hot for guys to be any more attracted to you

 

[TheRob]

I think, like anything, a balance is needed to be healthy. It is possible to overdo anything, patience, courtesy, independence...

As long as you are not hurting yourself or others, directly or indirectly, you are fine.




njqt- you have been unnecessarily harsh to TK. I know you are the type to say what you are thinking but I am wondering how this topic has obviously rubbed you the wrong way? Must be something personal?

I'm guessing she has had very little contact with gentlemen in her life
women who don't get a lot of contact with us get really upset when they see one ofus misstreated
it's not that TK was necessarily rude, but she was unreceptive of simple niceness

 

[TheRob]

Um, I don't know about that in this case.

If I'm reading this right, it was a company/office party, and the guy offering her drinks was nearly MY age (she'd be underage if she were in the US). Plus, other people were expecting him to try taking her home, or at least they were joking about it.

I'd like to hear from TK on Monday after she gets back to work. If it's like any other office, I'll bet that her coworkers have some gossip about the guy.

ok lets further extrapolate
TK is a loner, so at the office party she was
A.) with everyone laughing and enjoying herself
or
B.) sitting alone quietly looking uncomfortable

so this EVIL OLD MAN came up and offered her a drink and some company (remember she dosn't have Loner writtenon her forhead for him to know better) and so he was out of line?
give me a break

further you would let her use OTHER PEOPLE'S actions to condem him?
wtf do what OTHER people say have to do with anything

 

[LeeEJ]

I can't believe how utterly clueless so many of you are.

A man in his thirties who offers a drink to a 19-year-old -- at an office party, fer chrissakes -- is being creepy.

That's it. It's really that simple. I've KNOWN guys who do this (or at least they try), and they're all loser fucks who have a pedophile streak.

I had a marching band director in college who was the subject of a running joke amongst the band members. They used to say to the freshman girls, "Oh, look out for him, he likes the young ones!" Wouldn't you know it, but several years after I left that school, the guy was arrested for soliciting sex from a minor via online chat.

TheRob, those other people that you don't give a fuck about are, I'll bet, more knowledgeable than KT about what this guy does and how he treats women.

So... LIKE I SAID BEFORE...

I'd like to hear what KT says after she comes back from work Monday. I'll bet she'll have some more scoop on this guy.

 

[Ed69]

I can't believe how utterly clueless so many of you are.

A man in his thirties who offers a drink to a 19-year-old -- at an office party, fer chrissakes -- is being creepy.

That's it. It's really that simple. I've KNOWN guys who do this (or at least they try), and they're all loser fucks who have a pedophile streak.

I had a marching band director in college who was the subject of a running joke amongst the band members. They used to say to the freshman girls, "Oh, look out for him, he likes the young ones!" Wouldn't you know it, but several years after I left that school, the guy was arrested for soliciting sex from a minor via online chat.

TheRob, those other people that you don't give a fuck about are, I'll bet, more knowledgeable than KT about what this guy does and how he treats women.

So... LIKE I SAID BEFORE...

I'd like to hear what KT says after she comes back from work Monday. I'll bet she'll have some more scoop on this guy.

My parents have 17 years difference in age between them.So does that make my father creepy?He married my mother with five children that were not his and spent more than 30 years providing for us.So tell me is that creepy?

Edit:My mother gave birth to the first of us at 16 so she was young when dad met her.

 

[LeeEJ]

My parents have 17 years difference in age between them.So does that make my father creepy?He married my mother with five children that were not his and spent more than 30 years providing for us.So tell me is that creepy?

Edit:My mother gave birth to the first of us at 16 so she was young when dad met her.

Yup, that was creepy, and illegal in many (but not all) states.

At my age, I would get kicked out of the military for fucking a 16-year-old like your dad did. I know guys who have.

 

[Ed69]

Yup, that was creepy, and illegal in many (but not all) states.

At my age, I would get kicked out of the military for fucking a 16-year-old like your dad did. I know guys who have.

Reread and try again!My mother had five kids before dad met her.Don't shoot your foot off trying!

 

[LeeEJ]

Reread and try again!My mother had five kids before dad met her.Don't shoot your foot off trying!

He still fucked her when she was 16, right?

Or am I correct in seeing that you just can't write worth a fuck?

Or was your mother just a teenage slut that was never told about birth control?

Rewrite your family history -- who met whom, and when?

The best that I can figure out is that your mom & dad met when she was 16, and that's when she had the first of five babies that were born of someone else's sperm.

You'd better think again about talking back to me when your statements are as unclear as that.

 

[Ed69]

Nothing was unclear,you're just to dense to get it.

 

[Osiris]

I have to ask this of Think_Kink and Notthe7.

The more I am reading this I think that what you don't like is being doted on or smothered. Would that be a more accurate description of what was going on at the office party TK?

I hate guys that OVER dote. I see them all the time in restaurants and bars trying so hard to "lay claim" to their woman that it borders on the ridiculous.

I find myself wanting to scream...

"SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T WANT A DRINK THE FIRST TWENTY TIMES YOU ASKED IN THE PAST TEN MINUTES!"

 

[rawbone8]

Yup, that was creepy, and illegal in many (but not all) states.

At my age, I would get kicked out of the military for fucking a 16-year-old like your dad did. I know guys who have.

I'd say you have the reading comprehension problem and might well consider apologizing to Ed. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Um, I don't know about that in this case.

If I'm reading this right, it was a company/office party, and the guy offering her drinks was nearly MY age (she'd be underage if she were in the US). Plus, other people were expecting him to try taking her home, or at least they were joking about it.

I'd like to hear from TK on Monday after she gets back to work. If it's like any other office, I'll bet that her coworkers have some gossip about the guy.

She was on a date with him. Not accepting small gifts that don't even cost much is kind of rude in nearly all cases. In her particular case (I was being general in the post you quoted) I don't think it's rude because she already had a drink. The age difference is irrelevant because she was already on a date. TK seems to differentiate between "dinner date" and date. There is no such distinction of which I am aware. Then again, I'm closer to her date's age than to hers at this point.

 

[AlteredEgo]

My parents have 17 years difference in age between them.So does that make my father creepy?He married my mother with five children that were not his and spent more than 30 years providing for us.So tell me is that creepy?

Edit:My mother gave birth to the first of us at 16 so she was young when dad met her.

Emphasis added.

She had her first of five children when she was 16. She then had four more, making her age 19 (at a minimum) when she met Ed's father. Even if she gave birth for the first time on her birthday, she'd be at least 19 years, and 8 months on this planet. She then met Ed's father who was 17 years older than she was.

None of the rest of us needed any clarification. I hope you write Ed a nice, sincere apology especially after your ridiculous remarks about his mother's character. Next time read slower, shut the fuck up, or both.

 

[Gillette]

My parents have 17 years difference in age between them.So does that make my father creepy?He married my mother with five children that were not his and spent more than 30 years providing for us.So tell me is that creepy?

Edit:My mother gave birth to the first of us at 16 so she was young when dad met her.

He still fucked her when she was 16, right?

Or am I correct in seeing that you just can't write worth a fuck?

Or was your mother just a teenage slut that was never told about birth control?

Rewrite your family history -- who met whom, and when?

The best that I can figure out is that your mom & dad met when she was 16, and that's when she had the first of five babies that were born of someone else's sperm.

You'd better think again about talking back to me when your statements are as unclear as that.

Lee has failed reading comprehension 101.

She had the first of five kids at age 16, had the other 4 before meeting the husband.

True, Ed could have said stepfather in place of father and still young when they met, but you are seriously jumping to conclusions here.

*Edit

I see Altered Ego has beaten me to the explanation. (And done a more thorough job of it.)

 

[ManlyBanisters]

He still fucked her when she was 16, right?

Or am I correct in seeing that you just can't write worth a fuck?

Or was your mother just a teenage slut that was never told about birth control?

Rewrite your family history -- who met whom, and when?

The best that I can figure out is that your mom & dad met when she was 16, and that's when she had the first of five babies that were born of someone else's sperm.

You'd better think again about talking back to me when your statements are as unclear as that.

Whoa - way to be an insulting asshole, asshole!!

Nothing was unclear,you're just to dense to get it.

Agreed - everybody else who read it seems to have got it just fine.

Plus LeeEJit seems to have completely misread TK's various posts on her date with this guy so he obviously has general comprehension problems. Oh well - no accounting for eejits, is there?

 

[lafever]

Let`s all sing Rebas song Fancy.

lafever