Sucking a hung co-worker

canon

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Bottom line for me is that you used your mental capabilities to force yourself on someone that is in a medically defined vulnerable and treated condition. Definitely a poor reflection on your character in my opinion. You will find out the affect on him when/if you want to back out of the relationship with him. Not sure he will be pleased so prepare yourself. It could be a rough ride.
 

wnjcwjkk

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A person is not a label, we all have the right to sexual expression. Each life is complex.

Social/Sexual Awareness | Autism Research Institute

From an article by Geri Newton, not specifically relevant but insightful:

Many of my clients have told me that having sex with someone is the only time they feel normal. They have a job that they know a "normal" person would not have. They cannot drive. They are not free to go where they want, when they want. They always have to tell someone where they are and who they are with. They feel like they are treated like a child. Yet when they are sexual with someone, they are just like everyone else--a grown-up. I have received this same message from people with identified IQ's from 30 to 70, verbal and nonverbal.


That is a very good point.

The problem is, how do you know if you're crossing the line of manipulating somebody?

I mean, the reason it's illegal for an 18 year old to have sex with a 16 year old, is because you have to draw that line somewhere, and the consensus is that the 16 year old isn't mentally or emotionally developed enough to make that decision.

The problem when you bring mentally challenged people into the equation is, how do you know where to draw the line? As long as they are of age, is it fair game?
 

wnjcwjkk

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And everybody might jump on my back for this, and I might deserve it:

This is a double standard I know, but I feel like if it is a male pressuring an autistic female, or a male pressuring an autistic male, it comes off a little sleazier.

Like did this guy identify as homosexual or heterosexual before you made your advances?

I totally get that autistic people have the right to explore their sexuality, but I feel like the line should have been drawn when he was resilient to the initial advance. I just imagine this guy saying "No" and the other guy being like "C'mon, you know you want it. Trust me, you're gonna enjoy this."

And maybe you were right, maybe he did secretly want it, he enjoyed it, and he wants more. But the fact that he initially rejected it, and you knew he was autistic, could be read as being manipulative and taking advantage
 
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Jarizzi

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I suppose some people might see it that way, but I don't see anything wrong with it. He never identified as gay or straight before we started messing around. He does watch straight porn with me, so I believe he likes women. But I know that he likes hanging out with me.

And I'm not embarrassed at all that people know we are friends. If he wanted to stop the sexual activity, I'd still hang out with him. There was a point where I did try to back off and keep our friendship non-sexual. But when you hang out with a guy and he basically initiates everything by showing you porn and whipping his cock out and jerking it and waiting to get sucked, it's pretty obvious that he wants it.
 
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-Has he ever offered to return a sexual favor?

-Does he focus on the women in straight porn or the men?

-Have you had discussions with him about why you like to give him blowjobs, but other men might not?



This is a tough call.

If he is gay, then your sexual relationship might be a uniquely positive experience and something that will help him understands that like him you too are an outsider in today’s culture. Your big challenge is making it end well if/when that should occur.
 
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handcuffsfan4

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I suppose some people might see it that way, but I don't see anything wrong with it. He never identified as gay or straight before we started messing around. He does watch straight porn with me, so I believe he likes women. But I know that he likes hanging out with me.

And I'm not embarrassed at all that people know we are friends. If he wanted to stop the sexual activity, I'd still hang out with him. There was a point where I did try to back off and keep our friendship non-sexual. But when you hang out with a guy and he basically initiates everything by showing you porn and whipping his cock out and jerking it and waiting to get sucked, it's pretty obvious that he wants it.
this really does sound like abuse to me now. If he rejected your advances at first and you kept pushing your way on him then it is definitly abuse. if you were a young man who isnt exposed to sex and many social interactions, but then an older male accepts you and then wants to watch porn and suck your dick, what do you think you would do? Id want his acceptance and the new feeling of sex, but would I understand that not all male friends don't do this together? What if he makes younger male friends in the future and thinks that it is normal to do what you are doing? Does he understand the full effect of what sex is and what monogamous relationships are?
 

handcuffsfan4

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-Has he ever offered to return a sexual favor?

-Does he focus on the women in straight porn or the men?

-Have you had discussions with him about why you like to give him blowjobs, but other men might not?



This is a tough call.

If he is gay, then your sexual relationship might be a uniquely positive experience and something that will help him understands that like him you too are an outsider in today’s culture. Your big challenge is making it end well if/when that should occur.
I definitely agree
 

Fastmatt

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Sorry. This is a no brainer. You are a health care worker and took advantage of one of your patients. You have crossed the line. I don't care if he is interested in gay or straight, porn or not. He relies upon you for his well being and you took advantage of him. This is no different than the psychiatrist who says his 22 year old female patient was hot for him. You are in the wrong. End it!!!!!!
 
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ConanTheBarber

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Sorry. This is a no brainer. You are a health care worker and took advantage of one of your patients. You have crossed the line. I don't care if he is interested in gay or straight, porn or not. He relies upon you for his well being and you took advantage of him. This is no different than the psychiatrist who says his 22 year old female patient was hot for him. You are in the wrong. End it!!!!!!
Is this true, Fastmatt?
I don't see any mention that Romalotti is caring for the younger man. Aren't they colleagues working at the same company?
 
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wnjcwjkk

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I feel like if the had a different thread title, more people would be joining in. It's an interesting discussion.


Have you ever tried to have a conversation about it with him about it, or is it something that just happens from time to time, and y'all don't really talk about it?
 

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Phil Ayesho has it pretty much right I think; I'm blown away by his articulate analysis, as always.

I think to suggest that no autistic person can manage their own sexuality is rather strange; it's actually deeply prejudiced in itself.

I would imagine most of us have done or said things to try to overcome an initial reluctance. It's a matter of degree, provided the person is never intimidated or ignored. Buying someone flowers, taking them out on a date, telling them jokes isn't "rape"... It is, however, persuasion ...

So. I think it's about monitoring the situation. Making sure the autistic man has enough control. And could always end the arrangement if he wanted to. And if he doesn't want to, I don't see how anyone else should have a view on it...

:confused:
 
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keenobserver

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This is a case for The Washington Post rule. The Washington Post Rule was explained to me many years ago when I was working for government agencies based in the large area the Post covers. The Rule was simple. Every action an individual working for or with a government agency could wind up in The Post as a headline or story. Act as though everything you do will be read there. If you would have no fear of reading about yourself in The Post, your actions are probably okay - legally and morally. If you don't like the idea of reading about it in The Post, you probably should not be doing it.

It served me pretty well over the years.
 

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This is a case for The Washington Post rule. The Washington Post Rule was explained to me many years ago when I was working for government agencies based in the large area the Post covers. The Rule was simple. Every action an individual working for or with a government agency could wind up in The Post as a headline or story. Act as though everything you do will be read there. If you would have no fear of reading about yourself in The Post, your actions are probably okay - legally and morally. If you don't like the idea of reading about it in The Post, you probably should not be doing it.

It served me pretty well over the years.


Good-ish point.

I'd refer to the philosopher Kant's "Categorical Imperative" but it's similar.

The trouble with referring to a newspaper is that some journalism still depends on bias, sensationalism, opinion ...

:)
 
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hypolimnas

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Phil Ayesho has it pretty much right I think; I'm blown away by his articulate analysis, as always.

I think to suggest that no autistic person can manage their own sexuality is rather strange; it's actually deeply prejudiced in itself.

I would imagine most of us have done or said things to try to overcome an initial reluctance. It's a matter of degree, provided the person is never intimidated or ignored. Buying someone flowers, taking them out on a date, telling them jokes isn't "rape"... It is, however, persuasion ...

So. I think it's about monitoring the situation. Making sure the autistic man has enough control. And could always end the arrangement if he wanted to. And if he doesn't want to, I don't see how anyone else should have a view on it...

:confused:

Should we deny everyone with an intellectual disability (if that is what we are actually talking about here) the pleasure of a sexual relationship because we are too ignorant to become informed, and too scared of grey areas, that are complex, and have to be worked out in each specific, and changing situations?

Everyone who isn't a virgin has had to weigh up the benefits and advantages of engaging in sexual relationships, and manage the consequences. It is part of being human. This guy probably has plenty of people (professionals and family) interfering in his life, "supporting" him, and "managing his lifestyle". There will be people around him, genuinely supporting him, meeting and reporting monthly.

In the end the relationship such as it is - is between two people who have, and they will need to keep communicating about what they feel comfortable doing. I would be more concerned if the guy was engaging in receiving gang bang anal sex, or was being used as a prostitute. Or if the OP conducted himself with no self awareness of the relevant questions this situation has generated.

I just think he won't be the first straight guy who has no access to pussy to take advantage of a gay guy who presumably doesn't have any better current options either. At the moment both parties are vulnerable in different ways but essentially both are safe.

The situation may become increasingly complex over time. Each person will have to balance the joy of sex with all the other expectations, and pressures, of daily life, but that is what living in a community and being human are about after all.
 
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keenobserver

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Good-ish point.

I'd refer to the philosopher Kant's "Categorical Imperative" but it's similar.

The trouble with referring to a newspaper is that some journalism still depends on bias, sensationalism, opinion ...

:)

Point taken, however you could easily substitute television, the internet or any highly public posting place for The Washington Post. The overall point would be would anyone want any of their actions so highly publicized? When faced with a dilemma as the op listed here, how would he feel about his actions being made known to the community as a whole? If he honestly had no qualms about that, then he should not have to ask himself or anyone if it is okay to pursue the path he choose. If he would not want it known then he should stay off that path. Any affair with a co-worker can go south and become public - at least within a workplace. In most of them the co-workers would be considered grown ups, and free to make their private life choices - no pain, no penalty. Would this relationship withstand the same scrutiny? How would the op feel if his autistic friend came to work on Monday and told everyone what they did in explicit detail Saturday night? Would he calmly stand there and say, "I did not do anything wrong?" I'm not so sure.

It used to be, long ago in a galaxy far away that we relied on our inner voice - often called a conscience - to guide us in these things. That seems to be gone. Now we measure it social shaming - how does it look on Facebook or Twitter? Maybe that is our new conscience - what would others think if they knew? Can the action honestly be defended in the light of day?

I'll have to look up the Kant reference - if I knew it, it has slipped my mind.
 
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Phil Ayesho

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Bottom line for me is that you used your mental capabilities to force yourself on someone that is in a medically defined vulnerable and treated condition. Definitely a poor reflection on your character in my opinion. You will find out the affect on him when/if you want to back out of the relationship with him. Not sure he will be pleased so prepare yourself. It could be a rough ride.


His "mental capabilities" ? Like, what, he's a super genius or some kind of Svengalli?

Are you suggesting that the autistic are "stupid" or mentally incapable?


Once more- just pandering to the mythos that the disabled are "lesser" beings who must be sheltered from the 'burden' of physical pleasure or close human contact because, what? they might get their hearts broken?


The autistic and other disabled people SUFFER for lack of human love. The idea that they are 'off limits' is just You imposing your biases on a whole group of people... many of whom you wouldn't be able to even IDENTIFY as being 'autistic' were you to meet them.

But here's the truth... this person with autism has to FUNCTION in a society where the entire culture is trying to manipulate him.... everything from pop up ads on his smart phone, to employers who underpay and overwork their staff.

Yes, he might get his feelings hurt ( tho that can be debated given autism's symptoms. )
But who in this life DOESN'T take that risk?

A young man I know just had his first breakup with a woman who turned out to be his first experience of a psycho-bitch.
It ended up with her dramatically ( tho not life threateningly ) pretending a suicide attempt- spraying blood all over his apartment and him having to take her to the hospital.
And SHE tests as perfectly normal and capable.

The disabled have to LEARN to deal with peer pressure, their own hormones, and negotiating their own assent or dissent to a myriad different manipulations that ARE ordinary daily life in a society.

JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

And just as the physically disabled have to learn to cope with a world that might be more difficult because of their particular impairment... so too must the mentally impaired learn how to cope with life. Thru hard experience.

And its unfair to ask them to cope with their sexuality, entirely alone, by telling everyone else it's immoral to so much as ask them.
 
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Point taken, however you could easily substitute television, the internet or any highly public posting place for The Washington Post. The overall point would be would anyone want any of their actions so highly publicized? When faced with a dilemma as the op listed here, how would he feel about his actions being made known to the community as a whole? If he honestly had no qualms about that, then he should not have to ask himself or anyone if it is okay to pursue the path he choose. If he would not want it known then he should stay off that path. Any affair with a co-worker can go south and become public - at least within a workplace. In most of them the co-workers would be considered grown ups, and free to make their private life choices - no pain, no penalty. Would this relationship withstand the same scrutiny? How would the op feel if his autistic friend came to work on Monday and told everyone what they did in explicit detail Saturday night? Would he calmly stand there and say, "I did not do anything wrong?" I'm not so sure.

It used to be, long ago in a galaxy far away that we relied on our inner voice - often called a conscience - to guide us in these things. That seems to be gone. Now we measure it social shaming - how does it look on Facebook or Twitter? Maybe that is our new conscience - what would others think if they knew? Can the action honestly be defended in the light of day?

I'll have to look up the Kant reference - if I knew it, it has slipped my mind.




From the fifty thousand foot level it appears that your public life space has been driven by what others think and how the conventions of the day would judge you (I live in the same world). While comments made by hypolimnas are focused on the private benefits/challenges faced by the OP and his friend.

Frankly I think both perspectives should have equal bearing. Most gay people (in my day) were well practiced in thinking from both views.

I have been gay all my life and in a committed relationship for over 30 years. Most of my professional life, educational opportunities, and extended family life would have been destroyed if I were gay first and a total individual second.

Early on I determined to own who I was and (like you) deployed what you referrer to as the Washington Post strategy. (It is still deployed to some degree.) By doing so I have protected those around me and myself. It allows me to influence what others do and think. There is no reason irrational phobias and ignorance should rob me of that.

As a professional, my job was/is to do the work of the agencies I represent and not distract with my personal interest. On the other hand I am an individual with a gay perspective who has a right to ethically participate in all aspects of human experience.

For anyone who might think that living “undercover“ as a gay person in a straight culture is being dishonest (not being down for the cause), I disagree. Some people need to wave the flag, and lead the marches, but there is a place for many others who can work in the system and help cause change.

The big challenge for me has been to manage these parts of my life so that I did not limit my opportunities or compromise my friends. It often involves questions/learning from a unique perspective. I think this is what the OP is doing with this thread.

He is asking questions to an audience which, in most cases, seems to know who they are and have experience in negotiating similar blind spots in our culture.

Unfortunately, the best advice comes with the greatest detail, and much of that is missing.
 

keenobserver

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From the fifty thousand foot level it appears that your public life space has been driven by what others think and how the conventions of the day would judge you (I live in the same world). While comments made by hypolimnas are focused on the private benefits/challenges faced by the OP and his friend.

Frankly I think both perspectives should have equal bearing. Most gay people (in my day) were well practiced in thinking from both views.

I have been gay all my life and in a committed relationship for over 30 years. Most of my professional life, educational opportunities, and extended family life would have been destroyed if I were gay first and a total individual second.

Early on I determined to own who I was and (like you) deployed what you referrer to as the Washington Post strategy. (It is still deployed to some degree.) By doing so I have protected those around me and myself. It allows me to influence what others do and think. There is no reason irrational phobias and ignorance should rob me of that.

As a professional, my job was/is to do the work of the agencies I represent and not distract with my personal interest. On the other hand I am an individual with a gay perspective who has a right to ethically participate in all aspects of human experience.

For anyone who might think that living “undercover“ as a gay person in a straight culture is being dishonest (not being down for the cause), I disagree. Some people need to wave the flag, and lead the marches, but there is a place for many others who can work in the system and help cause change.

The big challenge for me has been to manage these parts of my life so that I did not limit my opportunities or compromise my friends. It often involves questions/learning from a unique perspective. I think this is what the OP is doing with this thread.

He is asking questions to an audience which, in most cases, seems to know who they are and have experience in negotiating similar blind spots in our culture.

Unfortunately, the best advice comes with the greatest detail, and much of that is missing.


You make some excellent points. I do not think a gay person who for any number of valid reasons must live undercover is a liar or engaging in some kind of deliberate fraud. I have seen the need for closets diminish in some places, but not others. To focus on the op it is a given that his actions would be condemned by the any-gay crowd in general, and used to frame him as a predator at the same time. However, even within the smaller gay community his actions are suspect, based on what he himself has posted. More information would be helpful, but it is not forth coming. Autism covers a wide spectrum so being autistic in and of itself is not the issue, but the co-worker described SEEMS borderline mentally disabled and possibly easily exploited. That is the issue to me. The op raised the issue and gave us what we have to chew on, so there it is.
 
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