Suicide - Does it send one to hell?

Ethyl

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Suicide is an easy way out, and is for cowards.
No. They want to end the unbearable pain or numbness deep inside. Cowards refuse to empathize and admit that such pain might exist. Putting oneself into another's shoe and reaching out to ease our neighbor's suffering should be the goal, not chastising those who are already broken and need help.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Suicide is an easy way out, and is for cowards.

Uh huh. I would dare you to attempt to kill yourself right now, but who knows you could be crazy so mebe I'll give that a miss. All I say is you obviously haven't ever been suicidal before, if you had you might understand the feelings and situations which can provoke suicidal urges.

I'm not saying im not a decent human being, and I adhere to the laws set forth in this land (albeit many polluted).
I was referring to all athiest's post's above me - They are correct. You, me or anyone who denies God, or his existence DOES NOT adhere to any kind of moral values set by any kind of religion. Personal values, codes of conduct, right from wrong are taught to us by who? and a better question - WHY? Why be a 'good' person? Cheat, steal, and do whatever you feel like, if you can get away with it, right? no God, no conscience. Logically, If you have no soul you have no conscience. Understand that we are here in by some cosmic mistake! We are just a collection of cells, just meandering along in society, souless.
what could be more sad.
First understand 'Why' to be a decent person. If there are no consequences to any of our actions here in life, other than doing what our laws tell us to do, it's party time!


This isn't logical, nor does it make any sense. I suggest you read more about the evolution of human behaviour and how moral codes and social behaviour are intrinsically a part of human nature, quite in the absence of god or religion.

Why one is a decent person is easy, human beings are animals evolved to live in complicated social groups, complicated social groups require complicated codes of conduct to survive and be effective. Its for the same reason we developed sophisticated means of communication and a wide variety of emotions which we able to communicate in a variety of ways.

God has nothing to do with why it is necessary to be a decent human being. My conscience is a part of a nexus of social and emotional instincts based on behaviours which I am genetically coded to display in response to my actions and the actions of others, and the social and cultural conditioning I have been exposed to. I process these moral instincts in my brain, I do not need a soul to do any of this.

the soul =/= the conscience.
 
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GayFrog

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We all would have considered suicide at least once in our lives; some follow through, with others, it remains but a thought.
Logically, I could never realistically consider suicide without considering the following:
  1. who will clean up after me?
  2. who's going to find me and have that scene replay in their minds for the rest of their lives?
  3. who will comfort my family when they mourn and feel the guilt of not being able to help and not being reason-enough for me to want to live?
  4. if I have any children at the time, will they ever live normal lives or will my actions set them on a path of destruction, self-hate, and totally erode away their self-worth and chances of a normal life?
  5. will my family/partner have enough money to bury me when the insurance refuses to pay?
  6. do I want all my life's work/actions to be nullified by one final act?
Looking at these questions, I do think that suicide is one of the most selfish things one can do, but the problem is that many people don't do much thinking beyond the action they're about to commit. I'm sure that most people feel deep regret just before death, and beyond into the afterlife.

In summary, suicide makes you selfish, but I don't believe you're going to hell.

At the point when someone decides to end their life, for what ever reasons. The time for what haves and what ifs has long since past. The mind is clouded and you do not think in a rational manner. Suicide does not make you selfish, it is the final act of a desperate human being. Selfish be damned; it makes you dead.
 

HappyBoi

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I wasn't "raised or taught into a religion". I had the opportunity to chose and figure it out myself.
 

FuzzyKen

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I can see circumstances where suicide could be the only option in cases of extreme suffering. We are often kinder to our pets than we are to people. Biblical teachings tend to indicate that suicide is of course a trip to condemnation. There are however contradictions as usual in this with explanations and why. Every day we as taxpayers foot the bill for individuals who are being maintained by artificial means in a state that qualifies as alive when in fact those individuals do not have what we could call "life". I am aware of a now young woman who suffered severe brain damage as a child. The parents went broke decades ago and the State of California now picks up the tab. This person and their maintenance costs over $12,000 per month. She does not have the ability to recognize anyone, she cannot feed herself, but she is able to recognize food and chew, she cannot speak, no muscle coordination and strapped into a wheel chair, and the list of things goes on. In her case I think that the cruel thing is keeping her alive. I cannot speak to the religious aspects, but to me this spirit is already in hell in life. What could be worse? In her case she cannot take her own life because she does not have the brain to do it. After the accident she suffered as a child the most cruel thing done was to save this life.
 

Autofellatio

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I personally believe in the existence of a soul - otherwise, what differentiates a cadaver from its former living state? Why aren't two humans identically minded if from a biochemical viewpoint, they are mostly the same?

On the topic of suicide, as another poster has mentioned, it probably depends on the person's state of mind - if I recall correctly Ernest Hemingway was given a Catholic burial even though he shot himself since he was deemed to be not in the right state of mind when he pulled the trigger.
 

Calboner

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I personally believe in the existence of a soul - otherwise, what differentiates a cadaver from its former living state?
You could raise the same question about an animal or a plant: what differentiates its living from its dead state? Well, the one is living and the other is dead, and if you want to know the details, you have to study biology or botany or zoology or physiology. But one thing that doesn't enter into the matter is whether something called a "soul" is to be attributed to the organism in question.
Why aren't two humans identically minded if from a biochemical viewpoint, they are mostly the same?
The answer to your question is contained in the word "mostly."
On the topic of suicide, as another poster has mentioned, it probably depends on the person's state of mind - if I recall correctly Ernest Hemingway was given a Catholic burial even though he shot himself since he was deemed to be not in the right state of mind when he pulled the trigger.
The priest, like the general public, was told that the shooting was an accident. Hemingway's widow did not disclose that he had killed himself intentionally until several years after the event. Hemingway's father, brother, and sister were also suicides.
 

midlifebear

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I knew a woman whose career as an RN was counseling patients how to "live a full and wonderful life" (her words, not mine) with a colostomy bag after having a portion of their colons cut out because of various disease issues. She developed Stage IV colon cancer and eventually was left with her own colostomy bag and all of the issues involved in caring for it and herself. She was a great woman and continued to counsel people on how to be happy and contribute to the world, considering their uncomfortable way of staying alive.

After about 18 months with her own colostomy bag she had gathered enough barbiturates to put herself painlessly to sleep to avoid her own inability to deal with her plight. I doubt she's in some inescapable hell. But her remains are in the Salt Lake City Cemetery.
 

helgaleena

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Uh huh. I would dare you to attempt to kill yourself right now, but who knows you could be crazy so mebe I'll give that a miss. All I say is you obviously haven't ever been suicidal before, if you had you might understand the feelings and situations which can provoke suicidal urges.




This isn't logical, nor does it make any sense. I suggest you read more about the evolution of human behaviour and how moral codes and social behaviour are intrinsically a part of human nature, quite in the absence of god or religion.

Why one is a decent person is easy, human beings are animals evolved to live in complicated social groups, complicated social groups require complicated codes of conduct to survive and be effective. Its for the same reason we developed sophisticated means of communication and a wide variety of emotions which we able to communicate in a variety of ways.

God has nothing to do with why it is necessary to be a decent human being. My conscience is a part of a nexus of social and emotional instincts based on behaviours which I am genetically coded to display in response to my actions and the actions of others, and the social and cultural conditioning I have been exposed to. I process these moral instincts in my brain, I do not need a soul to do any of this.

the soul =/= the conscience.

My points too, only much better put.
 

ManlyBanisters

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I cannot speak to the religious aspects, but to me this spirit is already in hell in life. What could be worse? In her case she cannot take her own life because she does not have the brain to do it. After the accident she suffered as a child the most cruel thing done was to save this life.

How the fuck do you know what state her spirit is in? She might be as happy as a pig in shit for all you know. She might be completely unaware. She might be aware enough to recognise that she exists but has no idea that her existence is not the norm. Seriously, what do you think she has to compare it to? You are seeing your life and deciding that her life is something you would not want for yourself - but, put in her position, the chances are you would not have the ability to recall or recognise the difference any more. You might be perfectly happy. And then someone like you comes along and decides you should die because he, not you, but he is uncomfortable with your existence.

People taking their own lives is one thing - euthanasia is a whole different thing, and one I'll always be against.
 

Intrigue

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How the fuck do you know what state her spirit is in? She might be as happy as a pig in shit for all you know. She might be completely unaware. She might be aware enough to recognise that she exists but has no idea that her existence is not the norm. Seriously, what do you think she has to compare it to? You are seeing your life and deciding that her life is something you would not want for yourself - but, put in her position, the chances are you would not have the ability to recall or recognise the difference any more. You might be perfectly happy. And then someone like you comes along and decides you should die because he, not you, but he is uncomfortable with your existence.

People taking their own lives is one thing - euthanasia is a whole different thing, and one I'll always be against.


In all cases? What if it can be proven that the person is genuinely suffering?? I'm not advocating I'm just playing the other side.
 

workandplay243

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No. They want to end the unbearable pain or numbness deep inside. Cowards refuse to empathize and admit that such pain might exist. Putting oneself into another's shoe and reaching out to ease our neighbor's suffering should be the goal, not chastising those who are already broken and need help.

I stand corrected.
 

workandplay243

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Uh huh. I would dare you to attempt to kill yourself right now, but who knows you could be crazy so mebe I'll give that a miss. All I say is you obviously haven't ever been suicidal before, if you had you might understand the feelings and situations which can provoke suicidal urges.




This isn't logical, nor does it make any sense. I suggest you read more about the evolution of human behaviour and how moral codes and social behaviour are intrinsically a part of human nature, quite in the absence of god or religion.

Why one is a decent person is easy, human beings are animals evolved to live in complicated social groups, complicated social groups require complicated codes of conduct to survive and be effective. Its for the same reason we developed sophisticated means of communication and a wide variety of emotions which we able to communicate in a variety of ways.

God has nothing to do with why it is necessary to be a decent human being. My conscience is a part of a nexus of social and emotional instincts based on behaviours which I am genetically coded to display in response to my actions and the actions of others, and the social and cultural conditioning I have been exposed to. I process these moral instincts in my brain, I do not need a soul to do any of this.

the soul =/= the conscience.

So you are genetically coded... by what? nature? Been over that. And... who you are and how you (your bodily tissues) behave is a summation of social and emotional instincts? Again, sad. Yea, were just evolved animals, but animals with codes and conducts. Get real.
Oh, and a bit of advice - don't believe everything you read is the truth.
 

ManlyBanisters

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In all cases? What if it can be proven that the person is genuinely suffering??

What if it can? You still need to prove beyond doubt that the person is not willing to suffer in order to survive. Otherwise it is murder, plain and simple.

And if the person is judged unfit to make a decision about the quality of his or her own existence, what then? Should the default be life or death? I think it should be life.
 

Charles Finn

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yes having made a very weak attempt at it I can tell you that yes all the person wants is the emotional pain to end and what they do not see is hope that this too shall pass.
they see no other way for the pain to end.
 

Intrigue

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What if it can? You still need to prove beyond doubt that the person is not willing to suffer in order to survive. Otherwise it is murder, plain and simple.

And if the person is judged unfit to make a decision about the quality of his or her own existence, what then? Should the default be life or death? I think it should be life.


Even at the cost of another life? Lets say a person can no longer support themselves or their family due to the exorbitant costs of said care. I'm sure there are varying degrees of this but if it is making others suffer unduly what then? I haven't had to make this sort of choice before and I hope I never do. I just wonder what I would do. Im sure if it happened to my wife I would do everything in my power to keep her alive. But I know that she wouldn't want to be a burden on me or our family, that she in that case would choose to die. What then? Is it still wrong? What jf she never told me what she would want in this situation, do I weigh her life next to the well being of the rest of the family? Hard choices. Can't say what I would do... Its def a difficult choice. I know personally that I wouldn't want to live like that, but that's just me.
 

TomCat84

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Wow, now that's a whole lotta "judgemental and highly offensive".
"sky daddy"? seriously?!
When it comes to morals and telling right from wrong, those who taught it to us, usually picked it up from religion, which is why many of us were forced to go to ‘church’ when we were younger. As much as we'd like to think that we are born with the common sense to treat everyone well, do only what is good and right, etc, we're not. This is taught to us in the way we observe our families, and by trial and error, of which consequences are a huge part.

I'd like to hear from those who have never been to church/temple/synagogue etc or had any religious influences in their lives (i.e.: religious parents/grandparents, etc). Tell me how you learnt right from wrong and all the "moral behavioural characteristics" which make you a good person.

I don't like debating with disgruntled religious-types who have become atheist or otherwise, because this is usually due to the fact that they place more emphasis on the human weakness and failings than on what they supposedly 'believe'. Face it, we're all flawed!


Getting back to the issue at hand, suicide and its one-way ticket to hell.
I believe there's some kind of afterlife, but the God that I believe in, speaks of compassion and love, so I do not believe that a "troubled soul" (yes, I believe we have a soul, too) will be forsaken and banished to a fiery pit.

We all would have considered suicide at least once in our lives; some follow through, with others, it remains but a thought.
Logically, I could never realistically consider suicide without considering the following:
  1. who will clean up after me?
  2. who's going to find me and have that scene replay in their minds for the rest of their lives?
  3. who will comfort my family when they mourn and feel the guilt of not being able to help and not being reason-enough for me to want to live?
  4. if I have any children at the time, will they ever live normal lives or will my actions set them on a path of destruction, self-hate, and totally erode away their self-worth and chances of a normal life?
  5. will my family/partner have enough money to bury me when the insurance refuses to pay?
  6. do I want all my life's work/actions to be nullified by one final act?
Looking at these questions, I do think that suicide is one of the most selfish things one can do, but the problem is that many people don't do much thinking beyond the action they're about to commit. I'm sure that most people feel deep regret just before death, and beyond into the afterlife.

In summary, suicide makes you selfish, but I don't believe you're going to hell.

This. My father committed suicide a few years ago- it wasn't pretty- neither the finding of his body nor the aftermath he forced my family to deal with.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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So you are genetically coded... by what? nature? Been over that. And... who you are and how you (your bodily tissues) behave is a summation of social and emotional instincts? Again, sad. Yea, were just evolved animals, but animals with codes and conducts. Get real.
Oh, and a bit of advice - don't believe everything you read is the truth.


Genetic coding is the result of millions of years of evolution.

You seem pretty ignorant of the material, if your maxim is "don't believe everything you read" then there's absolutely no point in us having a conversation whatsoever, people who refuse to accept real evidence placed before them or who irrationally decide to believe that evidence is false are not people one can have a reasonable discussion with.

That you don't understand the rudiments of human behavioural science and how our behaviour is directly the result of our genetically coded instincts is pretty evident. I will recommend you do some reading on the topic despite your peculiar distrust of the written word.

The fact that I'm an animal, like any other, with perhaps a slightly more useful set of adaptations which make me part of a successful species isn't sad or happy for that matter. It's just a fact that can be proved with a vast amount of reliable evidence.

I'm not sure why you think there need be more to it than that. I think you're part of a large group of people who insist on making themselves disatisfied with reality by wanting there to be some deeper meaning to their existence. Reality, and the physical universe we inhabit are so magnificent, so awe inspiring, and the mere fact that I happen to exist at all is frankly glorious enough for me. I have no need to indulge in narcissistic fantasies about how I must be haunted by an invisible ever-living spirit which places me in a special relationship with a deity who's existence cannot be demonstrated to find meaning in life.

You seem bitter about something or other too, I wont bother asking about why, I'm not all that interested.