Suicide

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Paul Vincent, Nov 12, 2005.

  1. Paul Vincent

    Paul Vincent <img border="0" src="/images/badges/member.gif" wi

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NW England
    Well I'd like to know your views. On another forum, there is a post about suicide. My response, and my view was summarily this:

    Truly suicidal people don't post on forums; they are already dead.

    The people who fail at killing themselves are just attention seekers, trying to get the spotlight on them in one of the worst ways. Basically:

    *If you want to kill yourself, you kill yourself*

    Anyway I got a lot of 'flaming' or backlash for my view/comment. I don't think it was deserved, the forum is also made up of a lot of teenagers and it was mostly girls replying.

    I was also accused of telling people to kill themselves which I did not do. Neither implicitly or explicitly. All I was trying to do was to stop immature people from doing dangerous things, that achieve nothing and harm more than they heal. It seems a lot of people disregard what they hear if it's not what they want to hear. Or they believe because my view is different to theirs that mine has no merit...

    So anyway, what are all your views on suicide?
     
  2. Dr Rock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    I'm not sure whether you want views on suicide or views on attention-seeking. a "view" on suicide is pretty much a waste of time, since nobody who kills themselves is gonna be terribly interested in anyone else's "view" of it.
     
  3. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    Since I've never *been* suicidal I know i'm not very empathetic about it. If someone is going to kill themselves, it has nothing to do with me nor is it my problem, unless I have a particular reason for wanting them to be alive, which is true in only an extremely few cases.

    I dislike droning on and on about it. Do it or don't, but leave me out of it. I resent the HELL out of weak people trying to make their problems my problems.
     
  4. Onslow

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    3
    Suicide--the final revenge.

    Years back I had a friend (yeah it has happened occasionally) and his love interest of the time was threatening to off himself. The bottom line was the guy planning to do himself in was starting it off as a sympathy ploy. The never popular "love me or else" behavior. Well he didn't kill himself although he did disappear for a few days scaring the hell out of my friend who thought it had actually happened--that his boyfriend had committed the act of self-pity.
    That said there are those who are seriously depressed and find life to be a meaningless waste and really do want to end it all. A few years back, I was in a low point in life (can't imagine why) and I thought about good bridges with raging rivers and drug and booze over-doses but it never occurred to me that I might want to write a note. If a person is serious they probably aren't going to bother telling anyone who might somehow talk them out of it.

    I can see some extreme reasons for considering suicide; such as extreme health issues as in terminal illness with no chance of recovering, but for crying out loud just fucking do it and leave people out of the whining.
     
  5. GoneA

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    5,176
    Likes Received:
    1
    Interesting. I don't think I have any views on suicidal people. I guess, to a certain extent, it would be a waste of mental energy.



    goodbye cruel world.
     
  6. Dr Rock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    well, i find life to be a meaningless waste, actually. in fact i always figured that was its only redeeming feature.
     
  7. Rikter8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,488
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    51
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MI
    I dont know if its a "Ploy for attention"

    People that are suicidal have more going on in their head than what people percieve.

    Some people are "Trapped" in their own minds, want to commit suicide, but Cannot for external reasons, and so they live on in complete misery.

    Its easy to say "Oh just do it - and leave me out of it".

    I laugh at these people, because IF they developed those thoughts, those issues running amok in their heads, I seriously doubt they could take the pressure.
    Weak Madam? Hardly - you have to be a very strong person to continue on, or have the courage to end it early.

    Those "Shoes" are nice - care to try on mine?
     
  8. B_Hung Muscle

    B_Hung Muscle New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,174
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC but never stop traveling
    This is a really complicated subject. Diagnosing mental health conditions is much more complicated than even the trickiest physical ailment. Partly because of oversimplication and trivialization of the issues involved (which the original post here is fraught with), we are way behind in the science. It's good to see WHO taking on the issue of mental health especially in developing countries as a priority. People who attempt suicide are not all "attention-seekers" nor are they all "weak." What ridiculous, 19th century statements.

    And, in any case, suicide technically also includes escape from unbelievable suffering. I have seen too many cases of pediatric cancer to know that some suffering is not worth the life that sustains it. Is it "immature" to want to -- or actually -- end that life at your own hands?
     
  9. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2005
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ireland
    Suicide is a personal thing with people..I dont like people talking about suicide daily.. A friend of mine was at a low point of his life afew years back and use to talk about it everyday.. Im not friends with the person anymore because of this reason, he used the word " suicide" as a means of attention, to get his own way and make people notice him and feel sorry..
    Anyone who is serious about suicide doesnt normally talk about it.. its a case of the parents saying, " I had no idea he was feeling so low"..

    I feel that suicide is the easy way out and the people that do it dont concider the people they are leaving behind..

    Advice to anyone who is even concidering it, talk to people first, problems can be sloved, sometimes they are small silly things...

    Shaun..
     
  10. MsLulu

    MsLulu New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Of course there is an attention factor to it, but I don't think it's a positive thing. In truth, perhaps the person claiming they will commit suicide is kind of doing a "closing time" inventory of their life to see if anyone really does care. They could be thinking "ok, if nobody cares, then I'm going to go ahead and do it." Maybe they just need one person to say "no, please don't."

    I've never goaded someone threatening suicide, I guess I see all human life as precious. I don't care if they want attention.... they're obviously hurting deep down if they're willing to take their own life.

    That said, it's a hard call. I was with a friend when he found his mother's body. (She had put a gun in her mouth.) He was never the same. She was suffering from clinical depression that could never be fully treated. I saw how it effected those left behind and needless to say, I was a bit angry about it.

    I guess that is what I would try to convey to the person considering it: think of those left behind. And, what if? What if your life turns around? You'll never know if you give up now.

    I know I sound naive, but I guess I would always want to try and stop someone.

    A friend of mine dated a guy who threatened suicide every time she tried to break it off. He was very unstable. Sticky situation. He finally got some help and they broke it off, but the guilt and pressure placed on someone.

    It's a tough thing all around.
     
  11. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    I must have one of those faces or something. I've had untold numbers of people trying to make me responsible for whether they live or die, and I just won't tolerate it anymore- not at all, not for any reason.

    I'm actually not completely against suicide. Only the person involved can know if it's the right decision for them. My only point it that it has nothing to do with ME. I don't let people dump responsibility for THEIR mental state on me. If someone wants to talk out their emotional issues, I'm cool with that (with friends, not strangers), but as soon as it turns into "You better talk to me now or I'll kill myself", well, they're as good as dead.
     
  12. steve319

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    From what I've read, there are two general categories here: those for whom talking about suicide (or even going ahead with an attempt) is a "cry for help" (and one that should be taken seriously) and those who don't talk about it and just do it--often successfully. I think we have at least some responsibility to try to get people the help they need. If I were in that sort of desperate situation, I'd like to think someone would step up to the plate and make the tough choice there.

    I agree, though, that the matter of self-preservation has to play a big role in the equation as well. I, too, have talked with lots of friends and students who were toying with the idea, and I've learned that it isn't healthy for either party for me to try to be that one thing standing between that person and the precipice--learned that the hard way in college. NEVER again will I promise not to tell. I do feel that we, as a society, have a larger responsibility to take action. I have my standard "Before you say anything further, you should know that I can keep anything in total confidence unless you tell me that you are going to hurt yourself or someone else" speech ready at all times.

    Standard policy in professional situations is that if a student reveals that he or she is considering suicide, we must report it--no if's, and's, or but's. That person needs intervening help, and we are obligated to make an effort to see that he or she receives it. I'm not a counselor, therapist, or physician, and I'm not equipped to provide the sort of care that will make a difference, but I can make an effort to see that this person is connected with those options. I've learned that this is the responsible path to take with friends/acquaintences too.

    Talking about it, acknowledging that suicide is something one has considered is usually healthy as a means of talking through the reasons NOT to do it, I think. But if someone I know is seriously considering suicide as a "next step" option, I'm going to be sure that he/she seeks professional help or I notify adult services and possibly that person's family. If suicide is a cry for help, then I'm not going to ignore that cry. Better I lose a friend through trying to help her than by standing idly by while she removes herself from the picture.

    Yeah, I know, it's not that easy most times. There's the fact that I do heartily believe in our right to "die with dignity" and I'm not so sure that suicide is always suicide, if you know what I mean. Plus there's the fact that there are obstacles in the way of getting quality mental health care in this country. In many ways, it is in even worse shape than our medical care system: soaring costs, limited care options, money-oriented management systems, insurance falldowns--it's much harder to get the kind of care today that was available just ten years ago, and we have many people suffering because of that fact.

    But quality mental health care (run by conscientious professionals) IS out there, and I believe in making the effort to help others make that connection. It's our responsibility. I can't "save" you (no one can if you don't want to be helped), but I can try to hook you up with trained professionals who can arm you with the tools and understanding to help you turn this boat around.
     
  13. MsLulu

    MsLulu New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Steve, I think you have a point there. When my friend's mother committed suicide, she had never attempted to do so before. She was always depressed, then suddenly the week before she took her life, she was blissful and happy.

    The psychologist told my friend that sometimes when someone who is so depressed finally makes all the arrangements and plans to DO it and has made up their mind, it's such a huge relief that they're actually happy before it happens.
     
  14. Lisbet

    Lisbet New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally, I don't see what suicide has to do with this forum on big cocks.
     
  15. Matthew

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,374
    Likes Received:
    160
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    This thread is in "Et Cetera, Et Cetera," which is the section of LPSG where we discuss subjects beyond big dicks. There is life beyond big dicks, right?
     
  16. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    Please don't tell me that or I'll commit suicide.
     
  17. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    Several good points made, but keep in mind that a true desire to "end it all" (whatever "all" means in a given case) is one thing. Those suicide attempts are usually successful. The ones that aren't usually fall into two catagories - the aforementioned "trying to be the center of attention," and the "cry for help." Those two aren't the same thing.

    I can understand the end-it-all philosophy. I have been plagued for almost 20 years with what was first diagnosed with migraine headaches, the doctors later called it "chronic daily headache syndrome," then changed it once again to "atypical migraine." After seeing numerous neurologists, shrinks, and pain management specialists, I was especially frustrated. I had an angiogram (not pleasant), an EEG (also not pleasant), MRI, CAT scan, was put on many different medications with disabling side effects, no one could find a cause or effective treatment until a VA doctor used an unconventional pain treatment (it worked.) If you have never had a migraine, you cannot comprehend what it is like. My main two symptoms are visual disturbances, and pain that feels like an "ice cream headache" that won't go away for days at a time. The visual disturbance is almost complete loss of vision in the lower 1/3 of my total field of vision, it just goes black or looks like static on a TV screen. It also affects my balance and muscle coordination, and I can't organize thoughts. It affected every aspect of my life for 12 years, until that one doctor actually LISTENED to me, and worked out a treatment plan that was actually functional. I have my life back now, but after I dealt with so many years of that, and medical "specialists" who either said "we can't treat it, so just live with it" or accused me of faking, or accused me of "drug-seeking behavior," I did have thoughts of "If I lose one more job because of this, I just don't want to live any more with the pain or worries of whether or not I will be able to pay rent."

    Advertising to the world, with a dramatic flail of the hand, that you are going to kill yourself - just to get attention - is pathetic. It is sad, though, that some people do have issues in their life that they think can only be resolved by suicide. My headaches are now well managed, but if I had not found the right doctor after 12 years of hell, I probably would not be alive today, and I had to go through 4 primary care docs, 3 neurologists, 2 "headache specialists," and 2 pain management specialists. That's 11 doctors. Odd that doctor number 12 was the first one to say "Hmm, no drugs in your bloodstream, but your pupils are not light-reactive today, maybe that's a clue..."
     
  18. AMikkell

    AMikkell New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Upstate New York
    I suppose my oppinion changes with my mood. Sometimes I think we'd be better without them, both the suicidal and the attention seekers. Other times, I feel sorry that they are feeling such things. I suppose that, ultimately, I feel that it doesn't matter, as dying now isn't really any better or worse than dying later.
     
  19. MsLulu

    MsLulu New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    omg bad zora.
    /spank
     
  20. MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK

    MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    28,012
    Likes Received:
    725
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    the pain behind your eyes
    Then I'll commit suicide.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted