Support Grows for U.S. Ban on Male Circumcision

GottaBigOne

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Freedom of religion does not mean the right to do whatever you want inthe name of god. It is not okay for people to sacrifice virgins to god, so it is not alright for them to violate others' bodies in order to please a god either.
 

bigsam

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Dr Rock said:
there are few better ways of supporting people than attacking organizing religion. if people don't learn that it's stupid, how are they ever gonna be free of it?

Then take it to an atheism website...I didn't come to THIS website to have religion attacked.

Constructive debate and discussion and statement of one's opinions is one thing, attacking another's beliefs is another.

Maybe some people LIKE having an organized faith. Maybe some people's faith is guided by but not ruled by the organizing principles. Maybe...just maybe, your not right on the topic?

There is tautalogically just as little evidence for the lack of g-d as there is for the existence of g-d.

If someone asks you your opinions, and asks you why they should or should not believe in g-d thats one thing, but when someone asks you to respect their BELIEFS thats a really nice thing to do for a person.
 

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bigsam said:
Then take it to an atheism website...I didn't come to THIS website to have religion attacked.
oh, that sucks

Constructive debate and discussion and statement of one's opinions is one thing, attacking another's beliefs is another.
no it isn't - see my last post

Maybe some people LIKE having an organized faith.
maybe. I suspect the vast majority would like it better if they knew there was an alternative, though.

Maybe...just maybe, your not right on the topic?
oh, i doubt that very much :rolleyes:

There is tautalogically just as little evidence for the lack of g-d as there is for the existence of g-d.
oh for fuck's sake, why is this always the first nonargument you clowns always resort to? here, i'll make it easy for you: with any theory, the burden of proof is on the proponent. if there's no observable evidence, then the theory is not viable. I might believe that red is really blue, and that we only think it's red because we have "no evidence" of it actually being blue: and who the fuck would take THAT kinda drivel seriously either?

when someone asks you to respect their BELIEFS thats a really nice thing to do for a person.
you may have noticed by now that i'm not a very "nice" person. there are plenty of nice and reasonable folks here who will respect your right to be wilfully stupid even though they think it's nuts. I ain't one of them - i've seen too much shit already in my life to just sit back and watch something as fundamentally destructive and virulent as organized religion.
 

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Dr Rock said:
you may have noticed by now that i'm not a very "nice" person. there are plenty of nice and reasonable folks here who will respect your right to be wilfully stupid even though they think it's nuts. I ain't one of them - i've seen too much shit already in my life to just sit back and watch something as fundamentally destructive and virulent as organized religion.

'willfuly stupid'? Yes perhaps that's how it can be viewed.

What I, as a poster here, have less tolerance for is someone being 'willfully' unkind.

As it happens Dr. Rock I agree with you about organized religion. However, I think dismissive unkindness is, well, unkind.

It's just as offensive as stupidity.
 

GottaBigOne

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bigsam said:
Then take it to an atheism website...I didn't come to THIS website to have religion attacked.
Then you have to learn to deal with the fact that people have the right and ability to talk about whatever they please and that you can't control them and make them say what you like to hear. Can't you respect that???

bigsam said:
Maybe some people LIKE having an organized faith. Maybe some people's faith is guided by but not ruled by the organizing principles
And maybe some people LIKE believing that blacks are inferior to whites and should be enslaved and killed. Should their beliefs go unquestioned or unattacked???

No one should ever respect another's beliefs without judgement. Heinous ideas are perpetrated and tolerated that way. People should have their right to hold beliefs respected, but the actual beliefs are fair game. If your beliefs can not withstand attack, then they are weak and probably deserve to be chucked in favor of stronger ones. Believe me, we do people a favor by attacking their beliefs. I know that when people attack mine, and fail, they make my beliefs stronger. And when they attack my beliefs and succeed, I get the opportunity to re-think myself and find a better way.
 

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I'm circumsized. Personally I think uncircumsized penises look gross. And I'm glad that I don't have to worry about cleaning out the foreskin or potential infection there.


[edit] also, wanted to add this: people today are too focused on physical pain. They worry about a few minutes of pain that a baby goes through during a circumcision. They worry about convicted murderers on death row being in pain for the 10 seconds they are in the electric chair before they die or the 2 second pin stick when they are lethally injected. As if somehow that little bit of pain really means anything next to the fact that these people are being executed. They get all upset about dairy cows getting shocked by electric fences to keep them on the ranch. People are such wimps. Life is pain, get used to it.
 

GottaBigOne

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My problem with circumcision is not that it causes the baby pain, it is that it removes a part of the baby, for non medical reasons, without the baby's permission. It would be just as bad if you gave the baby anesthesia(sp?) and lopped its leg off. It ouldn't be better because the baby didn't feel pain, it would still eb bad because you still violated its right to its body. Now, the foreskin isn't that big of a deal, it is not the same as losing a leg, so I am not really upset about circumcision. But it is still wrong. Same as piercing a baby's ears. Not a big deal, but still wrong.
 

ucpap

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athough I'm naturally biased since I'm uncut, I do feel that if America is the land of the free and we respect the rights if the individual to make choices for themselves that the choice of the individual should be represented in the circumcision arguement.
Babies have no choice, it is made for them. Argueably, would you allow someone to make a choice like that for you knowing what it would entail. For example, if you were just sitting in a hospital and someone that you didn't know tell a doctor to perform an operation on you and the doctor took you and did it, would you blindly go without a complaint? Probably not, and in essence that is what is happening to children. While there is a difference between circumcision and say heart surgury, the example isn't about degree: it's about choice. While we all, as parents or not as parents, want what's best for eachother and especially our children, there is proof that there is considerable pain and there is also a lot of people who wish that the choice wasn't made for them - even if their parents or doctors made it for the same reasons that pro-circumsion people make.
Another avenue to explore is the reasons why hospitals want to continue this as a routine surgury. Many articles have come out on hospitals being able to bill circumcision for twice as much to insurance companies as it would to pay for it out of your own pocket. On top of that articles have also come out about hospitals selling the skin to research companies where they use it to try and clone and develop organs or skin for burn victims. The hospitals doubtfully give the skin away for free, so they are making money two fold on this simple (and what many consider to be insignificant) operation.
 

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real question....who cares? honestly people get a hobby...go fishing...make model airplanes...if you want your child uncut then dont have him get cut...it's that simple...as for human rights...there cannot be a global view on human rights because lets face it all people are assholes and believe in different things/religions which affect the view on women, children, old people. as for the whole mutilation thing...let's not be so dramatic..its unnecessary skin...and if you try and pull that "it helps guys learn to masturbate more instinctively" card i'm going to punch you in the face because all guys learn to jerk off someway or another so that's just silly. PERSONALLY, i think there should be no full circumcision....i think doctors should circumcise boys like me because i have a loose/partial circumcision and i get the best of both worlds i say....i have plenty of skin to go around, still have my frenulum and inner foreskin...plus i have the superficial american pretty look. so in that regard i cannot speak for the "cut" group because i'm somewhere in the middle...anyway if the 5 star government bans circumcision it's going to lead to protest about a parents choice...yea yea no childrens choice but since when do children get a choice...never....as for europe doesnt cut....i am from germany and was cut there...i dont mean to come across caustic or frustrating but everyone's making such a big deal about something so unimportant. i mean if everyone is the same it's boring circumcision adds diversity. and stop using the mutilation word..its circumcision..not the movie saw. i think i have said enough for most of lpsg to hate me but i love to have lively debates and am willing to chat...later everybody....let the hate mail begin
 

medic007

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It's pretty simple, as Madame Zora put it so eloquently:

madame_zora said:
If someone chooses to be circumsised when they're an adult, that's fine, but any other type of body modification is restricted to adults, and this should be as well.
See, nice and simple! :tongue:

And not to be a bitch (I am skilled at it though) I hate to point out in the case of
bigsam said:
Then take it to an atheism website...I didn't come to THIS website to have religion attacked.
that this is neither an atheist, nor a Judaisim, Christianity, or otherwise website. Supposedly this website is about penises, not religion. Therefore, to discuss circumcision is appropriate, but to drag God, kicking and screaming into the fray, is inappropriate. (though, I digress I am somewhat surprised at the use of the word tautology, but I think you misused it...could be wrong though, I'm a chemist not an english major)
 

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slayer04 said:
real question....who cares? honestly people get a hobby...go fishing...make model airplanes...if you want your child uncut then dont have him get cut...it's that simple...as for human rights...there cannot be a global view on human rights because lets face it all people are assholes and believe in different things/religions which affect the view on women, children, old people. as for the whole mutilation thing...let's not be so dramatic..its unnecessary skin...and if you try and pull that "it helps guys learn to masturbate more instinctively" card i'm going to punch you in the face because all guys learn to jerk off someway or another so that's just silly. PERSONALLY, i think there should be no full circumcision....i think doctors should circumcise boys like me because i have a loose/partial circumcision and i get the best of both worlds i say....i have plenty of skin to go around, still have my frenulum and inner foreskin...plus i have the superficial american pretty look. so in that regard i cannot speak for the "cut" group because i'm somewhere in the middle...anyway if the 5 star government bans circumcision it's going to lead to protest about a parents choice...yea yea no childrens choice but since when do children get a choice...never....as for europe doesnt cut....i am from germany and was cut there...i dont mean to come across caustic or frustrating but everyone's making such a big deal about something so unimportant. i mean if everyone is the same it's boring circumcision adds diversity. and stop using the mutilation word..its circumcision..not the movie saw. i think i have said enough for most of lpsg to hate me but i love to have lively debates and am willing to chat...later everybody....let the hate mail begin

LOL What do you get out of this? I'd love to know. I guess it depends on *who* you are.
I'm feeling........deja vu
 

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slayer04 said:
....i have plenty of skin to go around, still have my frenulum and inner foreskin...plus i have the superficial american pretty look.


I was just looking at your pics-- VERY nice...but...there is no frenulum on that penis...it looks like a full circ
 

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Pye said:
I was just looking at your pics-- VERY nice...but...there is no frenulum on that penis...it looks like a full circ

It's amazing how self-delusional people become when it comes to circumcision.
 

slayer04

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from what my doctor told me this is a frenulum.....am i wrong? also...how am i delusional...ill informed perhaps i'll give you that but delusional....hardly
 

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slayer04 said:
from what my doctor told me this is a frenulum.....am i wrong? also...how am i delusional...ill informed perhaps i'll give you that but delusional....hardly

well-- that is the remains of a frenulum-- usually it is attached like a string to the underside of the glans-- now when you run your finger over that-- lots of pleasure-- now doesn't it make you think abot how much of it is gone?
 

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Stronzo said:
There's a rather substantial difference in the female variety and the male.... Indeed the phenomenons, to me, are entirely non-analagous.

While infibulation has the most devastating health consequences, it is not the most common form of female genital mutilation (FGM), Sunna circumcision is, and it is directly analogous to male genital mutilation (MGM), except MGM removes more actual tissue.

See clitoridotomy at this wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision