Syria Is An Attack Justified?

vince

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Yes, agreed it is promising. The last thing we need is an escalation of the violence being perpetrated on the Syrian people. It would be very good to secure those weapons from the people currently controlling them, but it's unfortunate that it has taken the US going to the brink to get any movement out of the Assad organization. However, I don't know how those war criminals can be trusted.
 

Bardox

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I'm still waiting for the evidence that Assad ordered the use of sarin on the rebels. So far there has been nothing but hearsay and conjecture. Not acceptable evidence of anything. And I have yet to hear anyone explain how the US congress has the authority to authorize an attack on another country (which they don't) that, by the presidents own admission, does not pose a threat in anyway to the United States. Without a self defense reason or the UN authorizing a strike, any attack on Syria by the US military is a war crime.

The proposal made by the Russians, agreed to by the Syrians, and accepted by the UN is the only legal option open to the President. As it stand Assad is not guilty of CW use until the UN investigation is concluded and the security council says he is guilty. If the US attacks Syria, limited strike or otherwise, the US will be the criminals and Obama will be the one defending himself before the international community.
 
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rbkwp

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war mongering power mongering scare mongering
all 3 applicable ..

so
whats happened about the WW alert, that America would possibly be attacked, put out what, 3 weeks ago now
has this somehow put that magical declaration on hold
do they have that much power!
 

dandelion

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Because an administration capable of the cunning it would take to pull off orchestrating such a diplomatic backdoor wouldn't put itself on the hook in the first place with a constraining "red line" policy.
i find it perfectly credible that a politician does something stupid and then clears it up by something cunning involving backroom deals.

Politicians also are in the business of being able to claim credit for achievements. It does the administration no good if Kerry (as he already has done) back peddles and says that it wasn't an offer, it was just a rhetorical question.. and then Putin claims the credit.
But still Obama is saved from declaring war on syria (which he does not want to do!) Or of looking a fool when congress turns him down. (increasingly likely). Both Russia and the US have something to gain here. Russia can become more intimately involved in the syrian government, while the US can claim Syria was forced to stop using chemicals.

It's difficult to imagine the administration being diplomatically cunning on one hand as they brain themselves with the mallet of diplomatic ineptitude in the other hand.
nope. Even if the administration was one individual , even the best of us do lots of stupid things too.
Cheney was alleged to have said at some point the oil revenues would pay for the war, not sure what the validity of that remark was.
In Iraq at least an absolute fortune of oil revenue was appropriated to pay for the 'liberation' and sundry expenses.
 

nate5000

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Bush declared war against Al-Qaeda. Assads gov't is in a state of civil war against Syrian rebels. Obama fully supports the rebels. Syrian rebels intolerant of people who are not Muslims. Syrian rebels linked to Al-Qaeda. Therefore there is hypocrisy somewhere along the line. Add that Obama is a Christian in theory but Muslim in practice (theoretical).

The United States shouldnt partake in any of this, let those countries achieve their own stabilization. Being the most powerful country in the world is not synonymous to being justified... or all-knowing.
 

TheBestYouCan

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i find it perfectly credible that a politician does something stupid and then clears it up by something cunning involving backroom deals.

But still Obama is saved from declaring war on syria (which he does not want to do!) Or of looking a fool when congress turns him down. (increasingly likely). Both Russia and the US have something to gain here. Russia can become more intimately involved in the syrian government, while the US can claim Syria was forced to stop using chemicals.

nope. Even if the administration was one individual , even the best of us do lots of stupid things too.
In Iraq at least an absolute fortune of oil revenue was appropriated to pay for the 'liberation' and sundry expenses.

You're reaching awfully far for an explanation that doesn't take that much imagination.

"Asked during a stop in London whether there was anything Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's government could do or offer that would stop an attack, Kerry said that al-Assad "could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week" -- adding, "He isn't about to do it, and it can't be done, obviously."

Does that sound like someone leaving the door open for a possibility of diplomacy or a legitimate goof?

Regardless, if this was some awesome behind the door orchestration of cunning, then given it's already warm acceptance by both the Russians and the Syrians, why would Obama still be pushing for a Congressional authorization of a strike?

This is pointless to argue as it's all conjecture, all we can go off of is what we see, and what we see is a Russia that has not been warm and cozy with the US or the administration humiliating that administration by seizing on some offhanded remarks to form a real possibility that SHOULD have been offered as an alternative before a strike anyway.
 
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rbkwp

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Add that Obama is a Christian in theory but Muslim in practice (theoretical).





interesting
thanks for that refresher


i asked my brother retired minister, of religion, what his thoughts on this crisis were


typical to some degree
he said it was biblical, and we would possibly need to let it all play out, as such..
 

Eric_8

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Now Russia's offer to the US (except in Cruz's world lol) is apparently contingent upon the United States and its allies foregoing any military force against Syria.

How does everyone see this playing out? If it is all on the up and up from Russia's end (sorry Cruz, Kerry didn't initiate the concept of this deal), it seems that the US would get what it wants, in that Syria would relinquish control of its weapons stores, but Obama would not, as he would still be left to float in the wind as a result of his inane red line comments.

I see this as a potential good, but also a potential pockmark for the President. Will he be content with that?
 

B_underguy1

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Now Russia's offer to the US (except in Cruz's world lol) is apparently contingent upon the United States and its allies foregoing any military force against Syria.

How does everyone see this playing out? If it is all on the up and up from Russia's end (sorry Cruz, Kerry didn't initiate the concept of this deal), it seems that the US would get what it wants, in that Syria would relinquish control of its weapons stores, but Obama would not, as he would still be left to float in the wind as a result of his inane red line comments.

I see this as a potential good, but also a potential pockmark for the President. Will he be content with that?

The US wants the destruction of Syria to enable an attack on Iran. Israel and KSA want the destruction of Syria to thwart the Iran-Iraq-Syria NG pipeline (and to enable a US attack on Iran).

Syria would lose its only credible threat against Israeli aggression.

Nobody trusts the US, let alone Israel and KSA.

Apart from that ........
 

B_underguy1

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So are you saying Syria *will* be destroyed, even though military intervention appears increasingly unlikely? Or are you saying the overlords are not quite the overlords they seem?

They may alter the strategy, change the management even, but the overall project will remain in place.

There are reports that Israel is hatching a plan to kick a major bombing campaign off if the US can't do it.
 

michael_3165

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No. I don't believe we should be butting into the business of other people. As awful as it sounds. I mean, there will always be nutters out there, killing their own people. We pick and choose who we go to war with. You have to either stop every mad dictator or none at all.
 

Klingsor

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They may alter the strategy, change the management even, but the overall project will remain in place.

There are reports that Israel is hatching a plan to kick a major bombing campaign off if the US can't do it.

Bomb Syria, you mean (rather than Iran)? You really think Israel would launch an attack on Syria just as the international community may be reaching a (relatively) peaceful settlement?
 

Eric_8

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So are you saying Syria *will* be destroyed, even though military intervention appears increasingly unlikely? Or are you saying the overlords are not quite the overlords they seem?

Destroyed is certainly overly harsh (sadly, imo), but do you truly think intervention is becoming increasingly unlikely?

All we've heard, from the President's cabinet no less, is that the failure to act with force would only serve to embolden others thinking of committing similar atrocities. That we can't afford not to act.

Now all of a sudden we can? I'm confused.

To be fair, this assumes the report that Russia included that this deal is contingent upon the US foregoing military force.