tackling bigotry whilst ignoring sexual harassment.

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by dolfette, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. dolfette

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    Sexual harassment in school: From South Hadley to TV

    (thank you, petite, for the link)

    i have to say that this is pretty much the attitude my daughter encounters. the girl who was called a nigger had the incident formally recorded and reported, but girls who are called slut, slag or whore don't have this harassment recorded.

    boys will be boys? i think that's an insult to the men who don't act that way, and an implication that they're less male.

    i don't think most guys have any idea how hurtful and harmful these terms are. there have been schoolgirls committing suicide ffs! lots of girls seem worried about being perceived as slutty. it harms all the girls, not just the girls it's aimed at.

    i think that guys should ask themselves how they'd like someone using these terms against their mother, sister or daughter.

    i'm in a ranty mood.
     
  2. HiddenLacey

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    Interesting read. I don't think I have ever called someone a slut. Personally when I was in high school I was never referred to as a slut to my knowledge, but I was generally harassed by the boys about my breast size. It definitely had an impact on me in highschool and possibly part of the reason why I am who I am as an adult.

    I don't think people realize the impact their words or actions can have on others. The majority of the time I try to take a step back and put myself in someone elses shoes before I speak. Which isn't always easy since I have not experienced the same things that others have.

    In highschool being ridiculed by a group of peers is tough. Especially when your body is already changing and you are learning about your sexuality as a young adult.

    I think if teachers encounter this type of behavior something should be done about it. Even if school wide assemblies are called. Something should be done to help protect them.
     
  3. B_subgirrl

    B_subgirrl New Member

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    I used to get called a slut all the time in the late high school years (high school here goes from year 7 to year 12). Strangely, I don't think a boy ever called me anything mean. It was always the girls who picked on me. Even stranger, I hadn't had sex yet and only had one bf during those years so I don't know why they picked that name to call me. I didn't dress slutty either. Most of them wore school uniform skirts with the waistband folded over so nothing much was left to the imagination. I wore jeans and a fairly baggy t-shirt (I didn't believe in uniform policy). I never did figure out where the slut thing came from. Maybe some rumours spread by the bf I had in year 9?
     
  4. dolfette

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    i had a lot of comments on my chest and several boys claiming to have slept with me.
    so although i didn't kiss until i was 16, the assumption was that i was a slut from 14.
    i was never bullied or picked on but that assumption made me very uncomfortable, especially as i was so utterly naive about sex and such.
    i'm sure the boys thought it was no big deal and that the old 'i gave her one!' would boost their reputation.

    it kinda stole that magical feeling some girls have about their virginity being special, because when other kids talked about it i could see the 'yeah right!' look between them if i said anything.

    very uncomfortable.
     
  5. HiddenLacey

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    That is exactly how I was made to feel. I waited until I was 20 to have sex. You know the antiquated idea of no sex before marriage... I got engaged and well obviously I had sex before marriage since I've never been married.

    I hated my body. I hated the attention that I drew because I didn't really understand it at the time. I didn't have sex and I didn't want the boys thinking that I did... once again religious suppression.

    Sometimes I feel those feelings again when I'm out somewhere. I still do not dress in public to show off my chest. Most of the time I wear baggie tops that might stretch tight over my breasts but fall straight to my hips.
     
  6. dolfette

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    i know what you mean.
    at puberty i hit the anorexia.
    not for fear of being fat but for love of being almost nothing, like i might blow away. be small enough to be invisable.
    instead i was stick thin with big boobs :rolleyes:
    i still hate being the centre of attention. hate guys obviously checking me out. hate walking past groups of men...because some of them never grew out of it.
     
  7. B_crackoff

    B_crackoff New Member

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    I think that all men remember teenage girls being unremittingly cruel to them, especially as the girls spoke twice as quickly. Kids & insults - it's a difficult age.

    It doesn't help when I see 10 year olds with T-shirts emblazoned with "slut" or "Sexy".

    Sticks & stones were always a hell of a lot worse then name calling.
     
  8. HiddenLacey

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    Reading this makes me want to cry. Because that is the way I felt and still feel as well. I did the same thing and I still associate places with groups of men, like bars and clubs to be taboo for me because I am so very uncomfortable there because of those reasons.

    It's hard to explain to people sometimes how I feel and why I feel the way I do.
     
  9. dolfette

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    you know that bit where jessica rabbit says,
    ''i'm not bad. i'm just drawn that way.'
    ?

    i still feel like i can't go into clubs or pubs (i only really go to bars when i can sit outside) because the male attention makes me feel like meat.

    ...on three occassions i've had guys try to physically drag me away from the man i was with in a bar.

    i like to dress so that i feel pretty, but pretty much stick to family friendly places and daylight.

    and the last time a guy lied that i'd slept with him? less than a year ago!

    ...in some ways nothing has changed since school.
    except that now i'm more likely to attack than cry.
     
    #9 dolfette, Jul 14, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  10. HiddenLacey

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    As strange as it sounds, it's comforting to know that someone else feels the same way I do, for the same reasons.

    Believe me I have been called a "party pooper" several times by someone who doesn't understand and obviously doesn't care to because they haven't had to live with it.

    I want to feel pretty too, Believe me. But I definitely have to stop myself from down playing myself IRL.

    You have learned to attack, unfortunately I'm more likely to go in the bathroom, cry, wash my face and go back out and deal with it some more.

    It's not that I'm a doormat, it's just the defense that I have built up over time, it's the way I handle it. I always feel guilty for acting out even if the person provoked me. I'm not sure why that is:rolleyes:

    Pretending something doesn't bother me has always been my way to not call anymore attention to myself.
     
    #10 HiddenLacey, Jul 14, 2010
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  11. D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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    I was called a slag/slut at school from being about 11 yrs old.I was beathen up and had my boobs slashed with a compass and hanks of my hair chopped off,kicked between the legs,my school blouse ripped open and my bra ripped off of me and taunted as my bra wasnt the daintiest and prettiest (they wasnt in those days,more like granny bra's for F/G/H/J cups).Taunted mercilessly for not being able to go to swimming lessons and gym lessons (plus i was embarrassed).

    School did sweet FA about it.Apparently posh kids don't 'do things like that' (i went to grammar school).They accused me if slashing my own boobs,ripping my own blouse etc etc.

    Cvnts!!


    Submissive....you are VERY PRETTY!!! You have the cutest face and there is bugger all wrong with your body!!
     
  12. HiddenLacey

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    Dear Lord, Tasha what school did you go to? The girls never really bothered me. My bestfriend was the she-witch (whom I love very very much) and she was pretty much always there with me. I did get cornered by someone a few times but that just made me more careful to stay with my bestfriend or around teachers.

    And thank you Tasha you are a very pretty lady :) Not just your face or body but who you are as a person, your absolutely beautiful:biggrin1:
     
  13. B_subgirrl

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    I'm the other way. Then I attacked, now I cry.
     
  14. Wish-4-8

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    Geez, I hope none of you ladies go to Italy.


    I'll let the pic speak for itself.
     

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    #14 Wish-4-8, Jul 14, 2010
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  15. petite

    petite New Member

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    I experienced some of this in school and I saw a lot of girls treated this way. I was treated this way by both boys and girls, over and over again. I have dozens of examples of sexual harassment by students in school. I'll share just a little bit of it with you.

    There were boys who claimed to have slept with me, there were girls who retaliated by calling me a slut. There were groups of guys who yelled crude things all the time. And I didn't even get the worst of it. Boys either acted creepy alone and much too close or in groups from afar. The largest group of girls to target me was only 4 of them, although they did a number on me. Now because of the internet, there are reports of kids being bullied by groups as large as 50! I know a lot of girls who had it a lot worse than me because they were attacked by larger groups of girls. At the schools I attended, almost all girls got a little of that kind of treatment, but the worst victims were treated truly terribly. I know it affected them, because it affected me.

    When I was 12, I saw how the girl who lived across the street from me was treated. She was gorgeous, one of those girls who looks much older than she was. She began growing breasts at 9, and by the time she was 14, they were enormous. She was thin and tall, blonde, beautiful. She emulated her mother and dressed very provocatively, and unlike me, she actually was extremely promiscuous. I saw how she was treated by the other children. It's no surprise to me that she ended up dropping out of school.

    One boy called me "missile tits" the year I was 13. I grew breasts just a little earlier than a lot of other girls. He said it every single time he saw me, and he made up songs and sayings and rhymes based on the theme of how he thought my breasts looked like the tops of two missiles. He made it clear that I was just a pair of tits to him. They were new and I was flat chested the year before, but he made me wish I was flat chested again. It was an unreasonable amount of sexual harassment and there was no way that the teacher of that class didn't notice his behavior. Nothing was done about it. That kind of thing was typical at school. Lots of girls got it, and lots of girls got a lot more of it from boys than me. I wasn't an exception. It wasn't addressed at any of the schools I attended.

    When I was 14, a boy called me "lips" every single day because he wanted to know what my "pussy lips" were like. That teacher made us sit in alphabetical order by last name, so I couldn't change seats, and every day he would lean forward and whisper disgusting things in my ear, telling me he saw me walking down the street and what he thought about that, or what he thought my lips were like. Sometimes he would just hiss, "Lips" in my ear. I was totally terrorized by him. It wasn't just sexual, his behavior was threatening and he was a big guy, much taller than me, at least 6'2" tall. I never told anyone, but why would I? Sexual harassment was ignored at school. Boys and girls were allowed to do things like that. I ran into him in a bar when I was 21 by accident. I walked into one of my regular hangouts and I saw a few friends sitting at a very large table with lots of other people, I went over and they scooted over on the bench to make room for me. The boy was there, celebrating his release from prison! I was shocked when I saw him, my tormentor, but I was grown up and no longer afraid of him. He saw me and asked me if I remembered him, and right in front of everyone, I confronted him. I told him that yes, I did remember him, he was the guy who bullied me every single day and said disgusting things to me. He was silent for a moment, embarrassed, and then he said, "Maybe I just had a crush on you." My jaw dropped open. He thought terrorizing me was the right way to show me that he thought I was cute? He couldn't tell that I didn't like it, that he made me scared? I still don't know whether to believe him, because either scenario is disturbing to me. I was sure that he knew exactly how he made me feel and he liked it, and that's deeply disturbing. The idea that a boy would say things like that because he was interested in a girl just goes to show how some boys might think that sexual harassment is somehow normal, or expected behavior from men towards women, and that's disturbing.

    When I was 15, I was unexpectedly pinned in about 3 seconds by an older guy who was on the wrestling team. He just took me by surprise. He just tackled me when I wasn't looking at him. After I struggled and it was clear that I literally could not move at all, which made him smirk, he then lifted my shirt and bra and slowly licked my nipple, like he thought he might turn me on, telling me how "impressed" he was by my breasts. After saying a few raunchy things to me, he let me go, but I was sure that he was going to rape me and if I screamed, no one would hear me. But that didn't happen on school grounds, it was just an example how I was treated by a fellow student who seemed to think I was there for his personal pleasure.

    I dated the only openly bisexual guy in one of my high schools (none of the other gay or bi guys were out of the closet there). There were ridiculous rumours that we regularly had orgies with all of our friends, but I attributed that hate (and curiosity) to the fact that my bf was bisexual, which made him a stronger target than me. Nothing was ever done about that at school. The guy who pinned me kept asking me about anal sex, like he was obsessed with the idea. He obviously thought I would be willing to have it with him. I'm positive that he believed that because of the rumours and the fact that he knew my boyfriend was bisexual.

    When I was 15, I was targeted by another girl who was jealous over my relationship with the bisexual guy. She tried her best to attack me, egging my locker and my house, and doing other things like that. By that time, I had enough friends to insulate and warn me at that school, and they protected me and made it difficult for her to attack me, but the motivation again for her slut bashing behavior and immature practical jokes was the same as always, a boy. She actually apologized to me when I was 20 years old for the things she did to me in high school, after we unexpectedly ran into each other at a mutual friend's house (who didn't know we knew each other). That was shocking.

    I was beaten up by girls in middle school. One brought a gun to shoot me. She told people she was planning on killing me. I don't know if she meant it or if she just wanted to scare me, but it scared me. I've experienced that kind of girl-on-girl hate my entire life, because of jealousy (I'm guessing, I don't really know), and it altered the way I interact with women I don't know well. Violence was common at that school. Tasha's stories remind me of it, and the number one reason for girl on girl violence was slut bashing behavior. There were lots of girls who had their earrings ripped out or scarred in other ways or beaten up over jealousy and rumours of sexual promiscuity or rumours of having slept with a particular boy. Actually, I think it was the only reason for girl-on-girl violence at school. Girls who get violent at school rarely get violent over anything else. I ran into one of the girls who beat me up every day three years later, and she showed no shame. In fact, she boasted to the other girls with her about how much she enjoyed beating me up, how fun it was for her. I know she was arrested for the things she did to me, and that she went to a juvenile detention center for it. I guess they failed to reform her.

    I've also been attacked as an adult by other adults, in slightly more grown-up ways, but they're the same games. When I was 21, I was falsely accused of having an affair with an innocent man by a sexual rival, another woman that a man I was dating was also dating at the same time. The man I was accused of sleeping with was engaged to a very wealthy woman. Supposedly we had sex in a public restroom once, an absurd accusation if you knew me! How gross! Some of the facts were correct, except I was in the bathroom crying and he came in to talk to me, not have sex with me. Neither of us hid the fact that we were both in the bathroom, because it was just so innocent, and lots of people saw us leaving it together. But that rumour was so titillating and juicy that it spread like wildfire, and gained traction. She also spread rumours that I was sleeping with many other men, obviously in an attempt to end my relationship with the man she wanted to be with, but those other men's lives weren't adversely affected by those rumours, just one of them. Those rumours were very damaging to me, the fallout over such serious accusations. It was exactly like it was in junior high, except this time it ruined a grown man's life and resulted in ending his engagement with a woman he had been with for almost a decade and it made my life hell. It was a mess that took a very long time to clean up. It's not childish stuff, those kinds of accusations, that kind of jealous behavior. It's not child's play.

    The adults who have attacked me, literally physically cornering me or copping a feel or worse, and the ones who have attacked through words and gossip or rumours, I wonder how many of them wouldn't have done it if it if that kind of behavior was nipped in the bud when they were younger and they could have been taught that it is wrong to behave like that. Both sexes have their share of dangerous people, base people, cruel people, and bigoted people. It's not behavior that's isolated to one sex or another, but it's all behavior that we should seek to stop, regardless of the sex of the perpetrator.
     
    #15 petite, Jul 14, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  16. the_new_godiva

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    Been there, done that. "Ciao bella, I laoooove you! I laaoooove you!" *doppler effect vespa*

    The guys in Italy are a whole different crowd. They're very forward and upfront, and everyone knows that their methods are laughable (themselves included). It's the ones who can't find the distinction between being silly and being bigoted that worry me.

    I don't mean to downplay the girl-on-girl hate by commenting on the male-female bullying, but those posts speak for themselves and I have no such stories.

    I was actually just talking to a co-worker today about working men. Not for them in particular, but working them to gain benefit. Young women can discover their sexual sides, and then discover that it can really get them places when they are dealing with men. One example is a girl getting free drinks from a bartender or something; another would be using sexuality to get a promotion.

    To keep this short as I could go on for days on the topic: we have to put a label on this kind of behavior and brand it "bad". It only propagates the misunderstanding that women are sexual objects and nothing more. Bigotry lives on.

    Then again, hard habits die old (or something like that).
     
  17. petite

    petite New Member

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    I don't think sexual behavior like that should be tolerated at all in school! Regardless if it's good natured "silliness" or not. I suspect, now that I'm all grown up, that the boy who called me "Missile Tits" every single day thought that he was just being the class clown and making everyone laugh with his goofy antics, but making my breasts the primary target of his humor every single day was extremely inappropriate and sexually harassing and damaging to all the children in the class, IMHO. It doesn't show the other boys the appropriate way to treat women, and it makes it obvious to the girls that just having sexual parts leaves women open to daily ridicule. I didn't think it was funny at all.

    I've seen both women use favoritism to get ahead, but I honestly can't say that I think I've seen another woman use sexual attention to get ahead. I'm not saying that doesn't happen, I've just never seen it happen. Maybe it's because we're in different fields? It could be a particular profession specific behavior, that is, that there are certain professions where this might work, and others where it doesn't work at all. In some professions, being too sexy will hinder one's career!

    In fact, there was the famous case recently of a woman who was fired for being too sexy in the workplace. Her superiors would make odd requests, then retract them, like for her to stop wearing makeup, then they decided that they didn't like that, then they decided they wanted her not to straighten her hair, and then they retracted that, etc. No matter what she did, she was just drop dead gorgeous. She was eventually just fired. She's suing them, and I believe she ought to win!

    I know exactly how that woman in the photo feels, and I don't think she's enjoying their attention. When you're afraid that just one of those leering might corner you and do something horrible to you, or that somehow being the object of attention will end up making your life hell, it becomes scary, not flattering.
     
    #17 petite, Jul 14, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  18. the_new_godiva

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    There's that fine line between something that's funny, vs actual sexual harassment. Specifically, "ciao bella ciao bella ciao bella ciao bella" is hilarious to hear; "missile tits" is grade A sexual harassment. You're right though, it depends on a lot of factors and 99.99% of the time, it's degrading.

    Kids go to school and they learn to be socially complete, learning what is and what isn't appropriate. I think they should learn it at home or something. Stepping out of the house thinking that "Missile Tits" is ok to use on the busty girl should never happen. Justice was served for me when the girl who called me fat and made fun of me for wearing a bra ended up with huge, saggy and very pointed breasts a couple of years later. Mom and Dad didn't teach her right and wrong, so I guess Mother Nature had to?

    Ahhh it's all the same in my books :tongue: sexual attention is a form of favoritism, except it's the dirty kind. I wonder if it's subconscious. Do the men in the higher positions consciously decide to favor that woman because she flirts with him and strokes his ego? I'm glad you've never seen it happen - it's not as rampant as I thought it was!

    I believe it was the pencil skirts that got her fired :biggrin1:. I hope she wins, too. That's ridiculous. In that situation though, it was nothing that she was doing. I mean, I don't know her and didn't see her behavior at work, but from the sounds of it, she just did her job, did it well, and her co-workers had a problem keeping their imaginations to themselves.
     
  19. B_crackoff

    B_crackoff New Member

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    Bloody hell, the baggage we carry with us - I would just quickly say that as far as boys go, they pretty much are egalitarian in their comments, i.e they say just as bad things continually to other guys. I think it's a social positioning thing, & you are expected to have a go back!

    But all that sexually physical stuff - yikes, total creeps, & should be reported everytime.

    Btw, quite a few girls also said they'd slept with me, when I hadn't even done more than kiss them, both at school, & as an adult. And I only know about the ones whose friends I was friends with.

    I briefly dated a 15 year old when 17, & her Dad was a police superintendent. Not cool at all for her to say that!
     
  20. AlteredEgo

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    My school years were very similar to Petite's. I was tall and goofy, but my breasts came in when I was 9, and that's right about the time the bullying really got intense. In my district, you went from kindergarten through grade 8 with more or less the same 200 other students. Some would vanish from the main population for a few years if they were deemed academically gifted, but they were returned in eighth grade. While the gifted kids were away, from about third grade on, I was the target of bullies not just in my own grade, but in all grades, especially once we entered middle school and older siblings and younger siblings caught on to my low social status, and it spread from there.

    After gym, in the locker room, when it was clear that my bras were not trainers, but the pretty, lacy kind with under-wires, a couple of girls began picking arguments with me. They always won because I was very timid, and not yet funny. After they won, they'd always say that I was a slut, or a bitch.

    A lot of the other students used to pop my bra strap. There was only one other girl with large breasts. They were much larger than mine. She got way worse sexual harassment, though I was bullied in general a lot more, and a lot worse. My school was violent, and sexual harassment was usually the least of my worries.

    I remember once I was walking the halls dazed after a standardized test. It had been grueling. No one else in the entire school was finished. I was trying to find the room we were supposed to occupy when we were done, when a boy with a bathroom pass walked by. By the time I realized he'd molested me, he was all the way down the hall. I looked at him for a moment, unsure if it had really happened. He was looking back at me, and he smirked. I chased to kick his ass, and he ran (remember, girls at that age are MUCH larger and often stronger than boys the same age). He ran past a security guard, and she stopped him. She lectured him for running, and I caught up and told her how he'd fondled my breasts. She flat-out said she found that hard to believe. She said that right in front of him, and that asked him to tell her she was right. Of course he denied touching me, claiming that he had a girlfriend, as if that was relevant. She told me not to cry wolf, and sent him on his way. That was the sixth grade. I have fantasies on the rare occasions that I remember him that I see him in a bar, drug his drink, and leave him there defenseless.

    Around that time, much like a hybrid of two of Petite's stories, a neighbor of mine was muttering frightening rape fantasies to me as we walked home from the bus along the same route. I was terrified of him. He seemed to think he was entitled to any use he wanted of my body. He also wanted me to fear him. He and some other local boys once tried to lure me down a dark alley. I remember once, they surrounded me, and put a rope between my legs, and pulled it up until I was on my toes, and my clothes were tucked way into my vulva. I look at these same men today when I am back home, and wonder what they think about, what their lives are really like, and if their wives know that somewhere inside is a horrible monster. I worry about their children, and their upbringing.

    While all of this was going on, I remember the black children were very racist against black children of a different shade, and that was acceptable just like the sexual harassment. However, let one of the few whites or Jews in that school say something racist and it was world war three.

    There's a reason I'm acerbic, defensive, and willing to be extremely violent now that I'm grown, when I wasn't that way as a child. There are reasons I never let men get to close to me unless I approach them. No one ever did anything about anything that was ever done to me. I learned that abuse doesn't magically stop when people become adults, which is what I had hoped for while I was growing up. I learned that police do not bother to prosecute crimes either, not when they happen to me. So I have also learned to take care of any issues which might arise all on my onesies.
     
    #20 AlteredEgo, Jul 15, 2010
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