tackling bigotry whilst ignoring sexual harassment.

dolfette

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a 16y/o boy had to be removed from his work experience placement at the PE dept in my kid's school recently, because he was telling the girls (10-13) how sexy they looked in their gym kits.

the (female) teacher had him kicked off school property so fast his feet didn't touch the ground. i was impressed by that.
 

B_subgirrl

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Petite and Altered Ego - Holy fuck! I would have been utterly terrified if I were in either of your situations. Your teenage selves have my sympathy (I know your adult selves don't need it :smile:).
 

Riven650

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It was this kind of bigotry that made me hate school from the very start. I remember boys trying to buddy up to me at nursery school with the baffling line "We don't like girls do we?" Well, actually, I did. My best friend was a girl. My sister was a girl. My mother was a girl. And I loved them all. So what's with all this 'we don't like girls' shit? My stance on this topic set me apart from the other boys instantly. At primary school and then secondary school it went from bad to worse. I was ashamed to associate with so much racist and sexist hatred and harassment. By the time I was 15 I'd disassociated myself from most of the boys, the vast majority of whom were by that time skin heads with a liking for gratuitous violence. It was 1970. I'd grown my hair long and I'd taken to wearing flared trousers and a black leather jacket, and I became the target of threats and ended up in some nasty 'situations'. Those I could just about cope with, but then I became the target of jeers from a bunch of girls a year younger. They'd snigger as I walked passed and call me "Poof". That was really depressing. I wasn't in the least insecure about my sexuality, so I didn't care too much if someone who didn't know me thought I was gay, but it made me wince just the same, as I could imagine what that scornful label could feel like to a boy who was gay. It showed those girls up to be nasty bigoted bullies and just made me feel a bit sick.

My older and younger sisters both went to a girl's grammar school. Years later I learned that they, particularly the younger, were badly bullied for being sexually knowledgeable (we had a lot of books in our house) and were called slag, whore, etc. by their peers. A little later when my elder sister was at art school she discovered feminisim and came home to try it out on the family at weekends, where she did her best to teach our mother and younger sister to turn on me and my dad. My mum wasn't about to start hating anyone, but big sister showed little sister how to go for the men's jugulars. Dad's, mostly behind his back, where she'd try to convince mum that he was a male chauvinist pig and suppressed her (which couldn't be further from the truth as he was selflessly supporting the family and enabling and encouraging her to explore her interests), and I was regularly stood up as an example of a sexist bastard on account of my having a dick, a sex drive, and a bunch of girly magazines under my bed. I was kind of caught red-handed and there was no defense. I could only absorb the emotional body blows and hope it wouldn't last too long. I am still wary of my sisters.

The work place proved to be no better than school, and I wasn't happy until I became self employed as a photographer, through which medium I explored sexuality and fetishism. I eventually ended up in publishing and book selling, specialising in titles that dealt with tattooing, body piercing, fetishism, gender issues, etc. That's all quite a long time ago now, and these days I'm working on music projects when I can.

The post feminist era has been interesting. It was good to see girls in boys shoes (I never have liked what stilettos do to women's feet). 'Girl Power' was a good slogan. We (men) had it coming to us. So the 90s was a time of healing. Teachers and employers were at last being encouraged not to tolerate bigotry. But men had had a kicking and I guess it was inevitable to see the backlash when rappers started singing about their bitches, who mince about in high heels and lap up the glamour. Was that post-feminist backlash, or just a newly released wave of sexism from a culture that had never really been affected by feminism? But it's rot and the attitudes have seeped into the mainstream. Both men and women (and some of them seemingly intelligent) seem to think they're so clever and 'street' these days when they use the term 'Ho' for a woman, or when they describe a car, or colour, or whatever, as being 'a bit gay'. Oh shit, me thinks, here we go again.
 

dolfette

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But men had had a kicking and I guess it was inevitable to see the backlash when rappers started singing about their bitches, who mince about in high heels and lap up the glamour.
this is something i think about a lot.
and porn, which has gone from being just sex & nudity to degradation and dehumanisation.
 

Riven650

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this is something i think about a lot.
and porn, which has gone from being just sex & nudity to degradation and dehumanisation.

That disturbs me too dolfette. (BTW what on Earth are we doing awake at this time of the morning? ;o)
 
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D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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Dear Lord, Tasha what school did you go to? The girls never really bothered me. My bestfriend was the she-witch (whom I love very very much) and she was pretty much always there with me. I did get cornered by someone a few times but that just made me more careful to stay with my bestfriend or around teachers.

And thank you Tasha you are a very pretty lady :) Not just your face or body but who you are as a person, your absolutely beautiful:biggrin1:


I went to a posh grammar school.The other girls all had lawyers,doctors etc etc for parents where as mine were divorced,dad lives in U.S,mum in a council house,she had a cleaning job and with dad being well off he paid my fee's.I was still called the scholarship girl......as i didnt have a posh voice etc etc.

Teachers did nothing as i was victimised and cut.....see some of the teachers were pals with some parents so buried their heads in the sand.

My twin sister went to a different school and one day she skived school and waited for the bullies who hurt me and kicked their ar$es into the middle of next week hehehe!!

Awww you say the sweetest things Dolly,bless ya!:kiss:
 

B_subgirrl

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My twin sister went to a different school and one day she skived school and waited for the bullies who hurt me and kicked their ar$es into the middle of next week hehehe!!

That's exactly what sisters should be for :smile:. Yours is another school I'm glad I didn't go to. I'm beginning to feel extremely lucky . . .
 

helgaleena

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Frank Zappa did exactly what ought to be done with his two songs, 'A Fine Girl' and "Sexual Harassment in the Workplace" IMO. He was more of a feminist than Riven's sisters I think.

My lucky and sheltered life included a grandmother who was an MD and a mother who was feminist and into gay rights early on. In order to be a rebellious teen I would have had to become either a bigot or a victim, and chose the latter. But getting dumped on gets old. I grew out of that and became a full-blown misanthropist. Soylent Green, anyone?
 

HiddenLacey

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I went to a posh grammar school.The other girls all had lawyers,doctors etc etc for parents where as mine were divorced,dad lives in U.S,mum in a council house,she had a cleaning job and with dad being well off he paid my fee's.I was still called the scholarship girl......as i didnt have a posh voice etc etc.

Teachers did nothing as i was victimised and cut.....see some of the teachers were pals with some parents so buried their heads in the sand.

My twin sister went to a different school and one day she skived school and waited for the bullies who hurt me and kicked their ar$es into the middle of next week hehehe!!

Awww you say the sweetest things Dolly,bless ya!:kiss:

Lol, your sis sounds like my bestfriend. She could have people shaking in their shoes. The two of us together are an odd pair, so alike yet so different. I'm glad you had your sister there to look out for you:wink:
 

D_Barbi_Dahl

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Oh my God. I'm
Horrified reading about the cruelty you all have endured. You're all awesome women and true survivors. I feel lucky to have never endured anything like that.

Having a 13 year-old son, I talk to him about treating girls in a respectful, appropriate way. If I find out he's acting otherwise, I'll unleash the wrath of RED on him.
 

dolfette

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Having a 13 year-old son, I talk to him about treating girls in a respectful, appropriate way. If I find out he's acting otherwise, I'll unleash the wrath of RED on him.
i'm with you there. he, like riven, is repulsed by misogyny.
 

Sergeant_Torpedo

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I had hoped to contribute to this thread, but I see that the perception and the reality are far apart. Any school principal who tolerates bad behaviour should be challeneged and with some cogency. And parents who defend their abusive brats should be told to remove the kid from school.
 

D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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That's exactly what sisters should be for :smile:. Yours is another school I'm glad I didn't go to. I'm beginning to feel extremely lucky . . .

I couldnt wait to leave and as for the posh lot......all pillocks! I got on far better with the working class family girls my sister went to school with.I wouldnt have got through my last 6 months of school without my sister giving them lasses a damn good hiding:biggrin1:

Lol, your sis sounds like my bestfriend. She could have people shaking in their shoes. The two of us together are an odd pair, so alike yet so different. I'm glad you had your sister there to look out for you:wink:

That was the thing i liked best....the fact that my twin sister looks so very different from me gave them girls a right old shock when all 4ft 10 dress size 4 of her turned up and kicked off HAHA!!! They hadnt a clue who she was but they soon found out hehe!!!


Oh my God. I'm
Horrified reading about the cruelty you all have endured. You're all awesome women and true survivors. I feel lucky to have never endured anything like that.

Having a 13 year-old son, I talk to him about treating girls in a respectful, appropriate way. If I find out he's acting otherwise, I'll unleash the wrath of RED on him.

Same with my 16 yr old son,he is polite and respectful to others especially females.....well he wouldnt get away with anything else having 5 older sisters lol! I'm a fair parent but strict on manners and respect.
 

AlteredEgo

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Petite and Altered Ego - Holy fuck! I would have been utterly terrified if I were in either of your situations. Your teenage selves have my sympathy (I know your adult selves don't need it :smile:).
You would have been terrified, but you would have found a way to cope. You'd still have turned out just fine.
 

B_subgirrl

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You would have been terrified, but you would have found a way to cope. You'd still have turned out just fine.

I'm not sure if I would have been able to be as strong as you guys. I was bullied a lot at the first high school I went to and didn't cope well at all. Luckily my mum and dad let me change schools. Things didn't go bad at my next school until the final few years. Even then, it was only a few girls and I was stronger and had friends who helped me cope (ie. threatened to bash them if they ever came near me). If I'd had to deal with it all through high school I don't think I would have made it through. I reckon I would have had a mental breakdown or asked mum to home school me or something.
 

AlteredEgo

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I'm not sure if I would have been able to be as strong as you guys. I was bullied a lot at the first high school I went to and didn't cope well at all. Luckily my mum and dad let me change schools. Things didn't go bad at my next school until the final few years. Even then, it was only a few girls and I was stronger and had friends who helped me cope (ie. threatened to bash them if they ever came near me). If I'd had to deal with it all through high school I don't think I would have made it through. I reckon I would have had a mental breakdown or asked mum to home school me or something.
I just told myself it would all be over when we were adults. I figured I was tougher than anything temporary. Then in high school I was incredibly popular. It seemed to be turning around. I had only one bully in high school, and I will never know what his problem was. He used to send me very disturbing, sexually graphic, threatening letters. School officials did try very, very hard to make him stop, but they did not suspend him. So he was met after school one day by a very large group of some of my closest, leather-jacketed friends. I never heard another peep from him. I have often wondered if he'd tried befriending me and I didn't notice or something. I figured his nasty letters could not have come from no where. We were not in the same clique, but he could have sat with us any time he wanted. We never shunned anyone, as long as they could be nice. High school was mostly like a wonderful dream.

Anyway, you never know what you can handle until you have to. When it's time to either sink or swim, I think most people figure out how to swim, and I'm sure you're one of them.
 

B_subgirrl

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I just told myself it would all be over when we were adults. I figured I was tougher than anything temporary. Then in high school I was incredibly popular. It seemed to be turning around.

Glad to hear it got better for you :smile:


I had only one bully in high school, and I will never know what his problem was. He used to send me very disturbing, sexually graphic, threatening letters.

This made me think of a guy I knew in high school. From year eight or nine until year eleven when I left, he used to call me bondage girl, always accompanied by a leer. This all started because he found out I liked horse riding (whips, leather). I didn't mention it before because at the time I had no idea what he meant so it didn't bother me in the slightest. I found him annoying, but wasn't upset or offended. In retrospect it's something he should have been reported for, but I didn't even know it had sexual connotations! Maybe he was psychic, coz it turn out that I was into BDSM :smile:


School officials did try very, very hard to make him stop, but they did not suspend him. So he was met after school one day by a very large group of some of my closest, leather-jacketed friends. I never heard another peep from him.

This seems to be the answer more often than not, going by the stories in this thread. The only way I could control the girls who bullied me in late high school was by me and my friends being more intimidating than they were.


I have often wondered if he'd tried befriending me and I didn't notice or something. I figured his nasty letters could not have come from no where. We were not in the same clique, but he could have sat with us any time he wanted. We never shunned anyone, as long as they could be nice. High school was mostly like a wonderful dream.

My group at school was like this. We accepted anyone who came along, as long as they were nice. Because of this we ended up being known as the 'nerdy group'. We had all sorts in our group including gay guys, self titled computer nerds, pot smokers, animal lovers and sluts (that was supposedly me :smile:).
 

AlteredEgo

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Glad to hear it got better for you :smile:
And I am glad you had friends who could help you defend yourself.


...at the time I had no idea what he meant so it didn't bother me in the slightest. I found him annoying, but wasn't upset or offended.
They say what you don't know can't hurt you, right? LOL


This seems to be the answer more often than not, going by the stories in this thread. The only way I could control the girls who bullied me in late high school was by me and my friends being more intimidating than they were.
Yes. The only way to stop a bully is to kick its ass. My mother was right all those times she told me to just pick someone and hand them their ass in a sling.


My group at school was like this. We accepted anyone who came along, as long as they were nice. Because of this we ended up being known as the 'nerdy group'. We had all sorts in our group including gay guys, self titled computer nerds, pot smokers, animal lovers and sluts (that was supposedly me :smile:).
Yes, mine was like that too, but everyone in my high school was a little nerdy. It was a specialized science school. The only way in was competitive examinations. A lot of the black and hispanic kids had learned how to pass as non-geek in their junior highs, and some of them kept that front through high school. However, you could easily pick out kids from my school on the subway or bus home for the most part. I was glad to not have to pretend to be stupid for the first time in my academic life. The result of finally being myself was I figured out who myself was, made friends easily, and developed a sense of humor. And it was nice to be able to stand up to bullies. I could go up to some asshole pushing some unpopular kid around, and use my physical stature and social standing to end that kind of thing. It was a real rush taking on bullies once I didn't have any of my own.
 

B_subgirrl

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They say what you don't know can't hurt you, right? LOL

What I'd like to know is how the hell did HE know about that stuff?


Yes. The only way to stop a bully is to kick its ass. My mother was right all those times she told me to just pick someone and hand them their ass in a sling.

My mum always told us using your fists was the best way to stop a bully, but she also taught us to be polite. So it took me a while to learn the value of fists for myself. Should have just listened to mum in the first place :smile:.


Yes, mine was like that too, but everyone in my high school was a little nerdy. It was a specialized science school. The only way in was competitive examinations.

Mine was a public school but one of the more middle class ones in our area. It was in a pretty snobby suburb so most kids had money and were totally up themselves. It was also right near a beach so most of the girls had the beach blonde look. I was quite proud of myself when the 'popular' girls asked me to join their group on my first day at the school (I had blonde hair so fitted the 'look'). I was even more proud of myself when I said 'no thanks' and joined the nerd group instead. It was weird though. You'd think being smart would be a bad thing at that school. Nope. It got some of the highest academic results in the area, and popular kids were as likely to be in the top as the bottom classes.


The result of finally being myself was I figured out who myself was, made friends easily, and developed a sense of humor. And it was nice to be able to stand up to bullies. I could go up to some asshole pushing some unpopular kid around, and use my physical stature and social standing to end that kind of thing. It was a real rush taking on bullies once I didn't have any of my own.

Isn't finding yourself fantastic! I didn't really do it until my mid to late teens but it was great when I did. Post depression, I had to learn how to love myself all over again, but I'm well on my way, and it feels just as good the second time around.

And go you for taking on the bullies for other people! I've always had HUGE admiration for someone who is willing to do that :smile:.