Talking points on health care.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_spiker067, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    There is not one country in which the socialist part of its health care system is not running in the red despite paying less for the medication and the health care workers that the market would ordinarily bear.


    Other developed countries' health care costs are subsidized by the American consumer. Americans, for one example, pay more for their American made drugs than do Canadians. If it were simply because the drugs were Canadian government subsidized, then Americans would not have been allowed by Canada's government to cross the border and buy their medication. This is true across the board for medication and health care related products. A law can be made to change this and thereby lower prices for Americans by having the other developed nations pay their fair share. We pay more for Swiss made drugs than the socialized Swiss do. We pay for their research and care costs.


    The un-insured in this country are being gouged by hospitals. You could for example walk in to the hospital as an un-insured individual and be billed for $1,800 for services insurance companies would only be billed $800 for. A law could be passed that did not allow price differentials greater than some percentage (say 10%).


    There are three types of medical care: 1) primary; 2)chronic and 3) catastrophic. Insurance should only be covering catastrophic care. Americans citizens should be shopping for their care in order to keep prices down and yet be able to pay for cutting edge developments in medication, procedures, and devices.


    Health Saving Accounts (HSA's) are the only way the above mentioned can be addressed economically and fairly.


    HSA's should be 100% completely tax free. If an family were to make $80,000 in a year and put $20,000 directly into an HSA. account, their taxes should start at $60,000. HSA's should roll over year to year without penalty and should be only used to buy health care, catastrophic insurance, and possibly pay for tuition. Furthermore, funds from one HSA could be transferred to another for charity cases w/o penalty. Dying with funds in your HSA would require that those monies be applied towards a Medicare-Medicaid fund.


    The shopping for care paradigm is proven to work in medical industries that do no fall under the umbrella of insurance coverage - such as plastic surgery and lasik eye surgery which do very well.


    Employers paying $15,000 – 18,000 would still pay that amount for health, but instead they would simply put it in an employee's HSA. From there the employee could purchase catastrophic care insurance and use the balance for primary/chronic care. Thus, the overhead of insurance companies that could be as high as 17-18% (plus 6% profit) would now go to the employee to spend directly on medical care.


    Shopping for care has to be a universal experience or prices can't be lowered or controlled. Shopping will allow the great medical advances to continue and shopping is the ultimate in portable experience. Medicare-Medicaid could ultimately be retained with enough capitalism in the system to support them.
     
    #1 B_spiker067, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  2. Industrialsize

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    #2 Industrialsize, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  3. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    It was simply an example of a two income household and taking money off the top and thereby avoiding taxes on $20,000 (and it does not preclude an employer putting into the HSA instead of paying for insurance). Pretty straight forward. The amount could be variable. You could at a young age stock it away and have it saved and then not need to put away as much later.

    Plus, being able to use it for tuition incentivizes people to put money into the system for themselves or children.

    Your counterpoint is weak.
     
    #3 B_spiker067, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  4. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    ^No, your arguments are weak.
     
  5. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Hahaha. You're even weaker with the, "I know you are but what am I," type retort.
     
  6. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    So what does a family of FOUR making 40,000 dollars a year do? How about a single person making 20,000 dollars?

    http://www.cbpp.org/research/index.cfm?fa=topic&id=76
     
    #6 Industrialsize, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  7. SilverTrain

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    LOL, it's that "sitcom family" world in which the dad works part time as a high school football coach, the mom has a cooking show on local access teevee, the family of five lives in a 6-bedroom/5 bath 3500 sq ft custom home with state-of-the-art appliances, fixtures and built-ins, on a leafy half acre in the nicer end of Encino, they all wear clothes from designer shops on Rodeo and/or Melrose (except Dad, who sticks with Old Navy casual and Polo suits), the fridge is stocked with gourmet food cooked by an invisible chef whose sister is the invisible housemaid, and the only strife is whether little Johnny is going to do the right thing when his math test is misgraded from an 85% to a 100%, allowing him a free ride to Stanford (instead of the free ride to USC).

    I'm moving there, when my number comes up in the Secret Republican Lottery.
     
  8. Industrialsize

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  9. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Good link. But the point is that everyone would have to shop for primary/chronic care. A universal shopping experience were providers are required to post prices on site and on the internet controls costs.

    The poor could be supplemented and/or receive charity funding. Since they would have to manage the money the 23% overhead that goes to insurance companies would be saved and applied to actual care costs. With fraud in Medicare their overhead starts at 10%.
     
  10. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Because it is not a universal experience. The fact that insurance covers so much is what drives prices up. Insurance coverage caused the problems.
     
  11. SilverTrain

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    And you think there's a lot of heated opposition to the current proposals.

    Just wait....
     
  12. midlifebear

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    SilverTrain: That "sticom" response was far too funny. Loved it. Just looooved it.
     
  13. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    We are going broke on this system. We will go towards bad coverage and also broke on Obama's plan.

    This is the ONLY true long term solution.
     
  14. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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  15. SilverTrain

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    Sounds like you're all set to go get it whisked through Congress.

    Ready, set, go.
     
  16. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    and the middle class?........
     
  17. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Prices WILL drop and they will receive funds from their employers.
     
  18. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    What's your alternative?
     
  19. SilverTrain

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    Maybe you could bring in Hank Paulson and Harvey Pitt as advisors since they've been there/done that with the whole "the market will guide things to their rightful place" thang.

    Go, man, go.
     
  20. Industrialsize

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    And what about people who don't get insurance through their employer and yet make too much to qualify for assistance? and throw in a few pre-existing conditions. Where do their FUNDS come from?
     
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