Talking points on health care.

[SilverTrain]

What's your alternative?

Clinton and Obama were on the right track with their reform proposals, until the special interests (i.e. insurance companies, their lobbyists, and the congressman paid by the lobbyists) started waging war on health care reform.

Universal coverage with a public option sounded pretty darn good to me. Obviously, rough edges would have to be honed over time. As with any massive institutional undertaking. You wanna make an omelet, ya gotta break some eggs...

 

[Industrialsize]

Good link. But the point is that everyone would have to shop for primary/chronic care. A universal shopping experience were providers are required to post prices on site and on the internet controls costs.

Ah, the Free market......how well is the Free Market controlling costs now?

 

[B_spiker067]

And what about people who don't get insurance through their employer and yet make too much to qualify for assistance? and throw in a few pre-existing conditions. Where do their FUNDS come from?

You simply want free health care.

Somebody has to pay and it has to be you in the end.

Those with pre-existing conditions (for catastrophic care) can be taken care of by requiring Insurance companies to take 70% of pre-existing conditions. They would go out looking for the best with pre-existing and lure them with lower prices. The remaining 30% would be put on medicaid/medicare and taxes on insurance company profits could go towards paying for that in part.

 

[SilverTrain]

We are going broke on this system. We will go towards bad coverage and also broke on Obama's plan.

Is there a more important thing to spend money on then our health?

In a family, do you blow off going to the doctor when little Christine has a medical problem, so that you can

go buy guns?

invest in some novel long-term opportunity?

have a frivolous shopping spree?

trade in the Nissan mid-size for a Hummer?


No.

 

[B_spiker067]

Clinton and Obama were on the right track with their reform proposals, until the special interests (i.e. insurance companies, their lobbyists, and the congressman paid by the lobbyists) started waging war on health care reform.

Universal coverage with a public option sounded pretty darn good to me. Obviously, rough edges would have to be honed over time. As with any massive institutional undertaking. You wanna make an omelet, ya gotta break some eggs...

Not true. There isn't a single socialized medicine country that isn't running in the red or living off of the American consumers.

 

[B_spiker067]

Ah, the Free market......how well is the Free Market controlling costs now?

There isn't free market when insurance covers all of health care and insulates the consumer from the prices.

That is what caused the problem.

 

[B_spiker067]

Is there a more important thing to spend money on then our health?

In a family, do you blow off going to the doctor when little Christine has a medical problem, so that you can

go buy guns?

invest in some novel long-term opportunity?

have a frivolous shopping spree?

trade in the Nissan mid-size for a Hummer?


No.

This totally doesn't make sense to me.

 

[SilverTrain]

Not true. There isn't a single socialized medicine country that isn't running in the red or living off of American consumers.

We're not making money on our military either, so let's just forget it.

Our highway system is just one big financial drain, such a waste.

Etc...

 

[B_spiker067]

We're not making money on our military either, so let's just forget it.

Our highway system is just one big financial drain, such a waste.

Etc...

Apples and oranges. Straw man arguments. I'm talking about how health care should work to lower prices, create portability, and still be able to fund cutting edge research.

 

[Industrialsize]

You simply want free health care.

Somebody has to pay and it has to be you in the end.

Those with pre-existing conditions (for catastrophic care) can be taken care of by requiring Insurance companies to take 70% of pre-existing conditions. They would go out looking for the best with pre-existing and lure them with lower prices. The remaining 30% would be put on medicaid/medicare and taxes on insurance company profits could go towards paying for that in part.

Now did i say anywhere i want free health care??? HSA's only work for the wealthy(and they get a tax break for using them).......for the rest of us??? Not so good.

 

[SilverTrain]

This totally doesn't make sense to me.

Priorities.

You seem dead set on coming up with a perfect system that will not cost anything. Not going to happen.

Health care costs money.

But it's important.

MORE important than guns, butter, et. al.

 

[Industrialsize]

There isn't free market when insurance covers all of health care and insulates the consumer from the prices.

That is what caused the problem.

I BUY my heath care on the FREE MARKET. I don't get it through an employer. I pay 803 dollars a month plus copays which last year came to over 2000 dollars on top of my monthly payment.

 

[B_spiker067]

Now did i say anywhere i want free health care??? HSA's only work for the wealthy(and they get a tax break for using them).......for the rest of us??? Not so good.

You keep asking who is going to pay.

AGain, listen. You're avoiding the point that if nobody can buy insurance that covers primary/chronic care it will not benefit only the rich. It will benefit everyone.

Rich people pay for cutting edge medicine development.

 

[SilverTrain]

Apples and oranges. Straw man arguments. I'm talking about how health care should work to lower prices, create portability, and still be able to fund cutting edge research.

Is it apples and oranges, or is it a straw man?

And you were the one who started bringing up the lack of "profitability" in other countries' systems.

I then analogized to other "essential" aspects of our society that don't turn a profit.

 

[B_spiker067]

Is it apples and oranges, or is it a straw man?

And you were the one who started bringing up the lack of "profitability" in other countries' systems.

I then analogized to other "essential" aspects of our society that don't turn a profit.

Defense is what the Fed is actually supposed to concern itself with. Defense is 6% of GDP. What is health care?

Profitability isn't the problem. The problem is not being able to afford it because there is no natural cap on demand.

 

[B_spiker067]

I BUY my heath care on the FREE MARKET. I don't get it through an employer. I pay 803 dollars a month plus copays which last year came to over 2000 dollars on top of my monthly payment.

The reasons it costs so much for you is because others have insurance that insulates them from their costs. That isn't a free market.

 

[SilverTrain]

Defense is what the Fed is actually supposed to concern itself with. defense is 6% of GDP. What is health care?

Profitability isn't the problem. The problem is not being able to afford it because there is no natural cap on demand.

LOL, are you just cutting over to the next coordinating point on your talking points grid, whenever you bump into a challenge?

The natural cap on demand now is a corporate avarice so profound that people die in hospital foyers for lack of affordable coverage. We could trade that out for something like, oh, responsible triage.

 

[B_spiker067]

LOL, are you just cutting over to the next coordinating point on your talking points grid, whenever you bump into a challenge?

The natural cap on demand now is a corporate avarice so profound that people die in hospital foyers for lack of affordable coverage. We could trade that out for something like, oh, responsible triage.

You didn't answer me. What percent of GDP is health care.

You were talking apples and oranges after all. Thanks for playing.

 

[Industrialsize]

The reasons it costs so much for you is because others have insurance that insulates them from their costs. That isn't a free market.

Getting health care through an employer does NOT insulate anyone from the costs. They may be unaware of the cost of their insurance, but when the employer's costs go up, they will notice the lack of raises, decrease in benefits, etc. An employer's escalating health care bill is passed onto it's employees in many ways.

 

[B_spiker067]

Getting health care through an employer does NOT insulate anyone from the costs. They may be unaware of the cost of their insurance, but when the employers costs go up, they will notice the lack of raises, decrease in benefits, etc. An employer's escalating health care bill is passed onto it's employees in many ways.

Exactly. But it did at one time and it is what got us here.

That is why prices have to be brought down with everyone having to shop for their everyday non-catastrophic care.