Talking
- Thread starter twoton
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I'm pretty poor at socializing and have little to no skills(couldn't start a conversation to save my life) so maybe take what I say with a grain of salt.
The explanation for the reason why they continue talking is probably within that conversation they had(or tried to have) with you.
I do not think there is a single answer since you are talking about women(plural) and most likely the conversations were different rather than the exact same topic. Also the only constant was you, so you are the only one here besides those women with the most insight as to why those events went the way they did.
You could always just ask them. Though maybe you should choose what/how you say more carefully before doing so. The way you put it currently I think probably comes off antagonistically and gives off an impression that you think they are unintelligent, not worth listening to, that you don't really respect them, as well as you view them as all basically the same. While that may or may not be true, that's how it will widely be interpreted if you stick to your current format.
:| If you browse even the internet you can learn a lot about what catches flak. Though at least on the internet you can never go wrong with good ol' parenthesis to further explain your point (like I'm not saying this to pick on you but rather to help you and anyone else similar) <- like that. Explain things that may be misunderstood whether it is tones or flat out what you said.
I know some people hate them but
emotes can help convey emotion that's lost in text but normally present in real life.
The explanation for the reason why they continue talking is probably within that conversation they had(or tried to have) with you.
I do not think there is a single answer since you are talking about women(plural) and most likely the conversations were different rather than the exact same topic. Also the only constant was you, so you are the only one here besides those women with the most insight as to why those events went the way they did.
You could always just ask them. Though maybe you should choose what/how you say more carefully before doing so. The way you put it currently I think probably comes off antagonistically and gives off an impression that you think they are unintelligent, not worth listening to, that you don't really respect them, as well as you view them as all basically the same. While that may or may not be true, that's how it will widely be interpreted if you stick to your current format.
:| If you browse even the internet you can learn a lot about what catches flak. Though at least on the internet you can never go wrong with good ol' parenthesis to further explain your point (like I'm not saying this to pick on you but rather to help you and anyone else similar) <- like that. Explain things that may be misunderstood whether it is tones or flat out what you said.
I know some people hate them but
emotes can help convey emotion that's lost in text but normally present in real life.
You say the conversation had “effectively ended”, but apparently that was just your opinion. Just because you’re done listening doesn’t mean someone else is done talking. I also don’t think this is a gender issue. You might think so because you’re a married man and work with a lot of women - you might have a little confirmation bias going on there.
Anyway, conversations don’t necessarily end because one person thinks they do. (At times unfortunately.) It’s kind of a mutual thing. “She” didn’t stop talking because she wasn’t finished. So let her finish or end the conversation by saying:
1. Babe, I hear what your saying, but can we continue this in the morning? I literally cannot keep my eyes open.
2. Honey, I’m too old to drive like a human being and listen to you the way I want. Can you hold that thought until dinner?
3. (Just nod through dinner and eat - geez, who cares if someone talks?! I also fold great origami out of napkins. See YouTube for info.)
4. Etc. Etc.
I’ve discovered that most people don’t get heard enough. Shut up and listen. One mouth and two ears, you know. Listen twice as much as you speak. Makes you seem smarter, too.
Just my nickels worth.
Anyway, conversations don’t necessarily end because one person thinks they do. (At times unfortunately.) It’s kind of a mutual thing. “She” didn’t stop talking because she wasn’t finished. So let her finish or end the conversation by saying:
1. Babe, I hear what your saying, but can we continue this in the morning? I literally cannot keep my eyes open.
2. Honey, I’m too old to drive like a human being and listen to you the way I want. Can you hold that thought until dinner?
3. (Just nod through dinner and eat - geez, who cares if someone talks?! I also fold great origami out of napkins. See YouTube for info.)
4. Etc. Etc.
I’ve discovered that most people don’t get heard enough. Shut up and listen. One mouth and two ears, you know. Listen twice as much as you speak. Makes you seem smarter, too.
Just my nickels worth.
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To be fair to Twoton, my wife and I have the same miscommunications (we had one just this morning in fact), I just didn't want to come across as griping about my wife because there's too much of that around here as it is.
I think it boils down to different understandings of what the problem is.
We had some errands to run today. My wife asked what time I wanted to start on them (Admiral Ackbar was not around to warn me that this was a trap). I said after lunch, so 1pm. My wife got upset because it would hold up some housework she needed to do.
Then a lecture started about how we don't start this stuff until too late in the day, meantime I keep trying to get up and go get showered so I can start this stuff earlier than 1pm but she won't let the argument drop even though I'm trying to get moving.
In my mind, it's a small issue: We have errands to run today. If she wants them in the morning then all she needed to do was ask. Her continuing to talk after I'm trying to get up and moving is counterproductive because she's making the errands start later by continuing to talk after I've already said it's fine and I'm trying to go.
In her mind, I think, it's a bigger issue about late starts to errands and she wants me to understand the impact it has on the rest of her schedule. It's not about today's errands, but the bigger picture of scheduling errands and she's trying to solve that with a discussion.
I'm looking to solve the immediate term, she's looking to solve the longer term, so she's looking to continue a conversation that from my perspective should've ended as soon as she let me know what time she wanted to leave. We're on different pages of the same book
I don't know if any of that is Twoton's situation or not, but it sounded similar (and a pit we fall into with some regularity).
That is simple gaps in communication style.
When my guy and I make plans, we have learned to say, “my tasks are not moveable” or, “I have about two hours of (paperwork, calls, whatever) but I can move them around.” We both run our own businesses, and have a mix of set and flex times.
I’ll suggest a range and a preference of which end of it. He’s sort of a time a or time b guy.
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Thank you!
That’s a perfect line. I also solve problems, and my guy decomps with me regularly. I’m still trying to decide when I’m an ear and shoulder and when he’s seeking insight/ outside take.
When do you ask?
AlteredEgo
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I mentioned earlier in this thread a dude I have to hang up on a lot. We spoke today. I tried to explain a situation to him. Not only would he not let me finish outlining the problem, he kept trying to solve the problem he hadn't fully heard about. Once I got him to LISTEN to me, he learned I already solved what portion was mine to resolve, and that most of it was just needing to vent about how someone else's problems are impacting me. If I don't drive Uber, and my housemate feels anti-social, I can go days without speaking out loud for more than a few minutes. So, when I'm talking, sometimes I really need the listener to just let me. This friend wasn't always like this. I think, even though we are young, that this, and a new tendency to repeat himself, point to dementia. He won't agree to talk to his doctor about it, and I am... afraid of his wife. Anytime I talk to her, she abuses him, so I say nothing. I'd really like to talk to her about these symptoms, though, if it seemed safe.
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If he is suffering early onset, and she’s abusing him, it goes up in legal severity.
I don't get this at all.
I'm more concerned with people (not specifically men or women) who clam up at the first sign of disagreement instead of talking it out like an adult.
AlteredEgo
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She doesn't mean to be abusive, but she is. She doesn't realize that she is continuing the cycle of abuse that has warped her sense of what is appropriate communication.
He routinely chooses to be monogamous with women who mistreat him one way or another. He married her because he is dying, he loves her, and he wants someone he loves to inherit his money and his amazing rent controlled apartment.
She doesn't like when he shares intimate details about himself with female friends. She also doesn't appreciate female friends taking care of him in any way. This was made clear when I called her at work one day because he wasn't coming to the phone. He'd been particularly sick, but didn't want her to leave work early. He did want to go to the hospital as soon as she did get home. He and I arranged that I would call him every chance I got. If he didn't answer the phone, I would give him a set amount of time to get back to me. On maybe the sixth check of the day, he failed to return my call. He'd been asleep, then took a shower in preparation for going out, without seeing the missed call. She had been starting to warm up to me, but hasn't been willing to casually chat with me ever since. Supposedly the issue was that I knew more than she did about just how ill he was that day. In her mind, it means we're going to have sex behind her back.
I don't know if I can talk to her about what I've observed without her going ballistic and then yelling at him, being withholding (emotionally, and sexually) trying to insist that we end our friendship, all while berating and belittling him. For now, I just observe.
Oh! I though leaving the house for more that 15 minutes justified that conclusion.
Early in the conversation—as early as possible.
NCbear (who’s not always able to head off an argument via this method <wry smile>)
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And my man and I have a shorthand for "I want to be alone for a bit": "I want my five minutes."
We had to discuss some misunderstandings for quite some time (months? years?) before we hit on this. Part of the issue is that he's an extrovert--he genuinely recharges by being around others or doing something active--and I'm an introvert--I recharge by being by myself and (usually) silent or nearly so.
So he said he'd understand if I said that. And then he realized he sometimes needed to say it too. So now we just go ahead and say it, no judgment, no hurt feelings, and things work.
NCbear (who's not a marriage therapist, really--I'm just another flawed human living on this rotating green/blue/beige/brown/white/black ball who's figured out a few things but not all)
We had to discuss some misunderstandings for quite some time (months? years?) before we hit on this. Part of the issue is that he's an extrovert--he genuinely recharges by being around others or doing something active--and I'm an introvert--I recharge by being by myself and (usually) silent or nearly so.
So he said he'd understand if I said that. And then he realized he sometimes needed to say it too. So now we just go ahead and say it, no judgment, no hurt feelings, and things work.
NCbear (who's not a marriage therapist, really--I'm just another flawed human living on this rotating green/blue/beige/brown/white/black ball who's figured out a few things but not all)
