Tax hikes now? Can this be accurate?

KTF40

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Right, so either get a car, pay insurance, OR be homeless. *sigh*
And what case are we talking about we here? This is strictly a hypothetical. I mean just doing a quick google search, the average for car insurance premiums in 2009 was $1,736. So you're telling me that the person in our hypothetical couldn't take that money to pay rent somewhere?

The point is we are running in circles. This is all hypotheticals. The bigger picture here is car insurance is a choice, this new health insurance is not. That's the major difference and really the point to why I think the whole car insurance/health insurance comparison is flawed.
 

KTF40

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Your rabid belligerence to maintain your beliefs prevent you from viewing reality. When someone is born poor and into a cycle of societal and generational poverty, they DON'T have the same access to choices even if they are "free". I'm not saying this about unabear09 as I don't know his situation, but you really have NO IDEA what you're talking about. The fact that you would associate car ownership to financial stability is also laughable, especially when you consider that many people who do go homeless wind out living out of them.

Stop while you're already behind.

You can rant and rave all you want, but no one forces you to buy a car no matter how poor you are.
 

B_VinylBoy

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You can rant and rave all you want, but no one forces you to buy a car no matter how poor you are.

You're right... nobody forces you to buy a car.
But when your only options for adequate services is more than a two hour commute by public transportation, then owning a car becomes more practical. That is, unless you think it's worth the emotional sacrifice and health risk to add 4 hours of travel time a day to one's already hectic schedule just for the sake of saving a few dollars in gas? Hypothetically speaking of course... or am I?

Again. Stop while you're behind. :rolleyes:
 

KTF40

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You're right... nobody forces you to buy a car.
But when your only options for adequate services is more than a two hour commute by public transportation, then owning a car becomes more practical. That is, unless you think it's worth the emotional sacrifice and health risk to add 4 hours of travel time a day to one's already hectic schedule just for the sake of saving a few dollars in gas? Hypothetically speaking of course... or am I?

Again. Stop while you're behind. :rolleyes:

You just made my point. You have options. You have choices. Some options are better than others. Perhaps in this case, owning a car is your best choice. Perhaps your best choice is moving to an area closer to these "adequate services". The point is, you have a choice. With mandated health insurance, there is no choice.

Highlighted the key part in your post.
 

TomCat84

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You just made my point. You have options. You have choices. Some options are better than others. Perhaps in this case, owning a car is your best choice. Perhaps your best choice is moving to an area closer to these "adequate services". The point is, you have a choice. With mandated health insurance, there is no choice.

Highlighted the key part in your post.

With healthcare, you SHOULD NOT have a choice. You should have to be adequately covered, so that taxpayers won't have to bail you out every time you need to go to the ER.
 

B_VinylBoy

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You just made my point. You have options. You have choices. Some options are better than others. Perhaps in this case, owning a car is your best choice. Perhaps your best choice is moving to an area closer to these "adequate services". The point is, you have a choice. With mandated health insurance, there is no choice.

Such a simplistic mindset for a complex problem.
If a person is poor, then where can they move to?

Trust me, I know your frivolous and dismissive point. And if you pay attention to the complete context of my statements, nothing I say will ever back it.
 

KTF40

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Such a simplistic mindset for a complex problem.
If a person is poor, then where can they move to?

Trust me, I know your frivolous and dismissive point. And if you pay attention to the complete context of my statements, nothing I say will ever back it.

If a person is poor, how do they have enough money to buy a car and pay their premium? See how stupid these questions are getting.

I'll say it again, you have a choice. Even your post before last said so. It's funny because when you say, "But when your only options..." you are clearly in agreement with my point. Yet you can continue to act like you disagree with me. There is a disconnect here.

With healthcare, you SHOULD NOT have a choice. You should have to be adequately covered, so that taxpayers won't have to bail you out every time you need to go to the ER.

Ok great. That's your opinion. I'm not going to try and change your mind.

^Also, you HAVE TO buy something to cover your body with. You have no choice. You can't just walk around naked.

True.
 

TomCat84

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Ok great. That's your opinion. I'm not going to try and change your mind.

Well, try- what other choice do we have? Like I said earlier, we could change the law to allow hospitals to turn away patients if they can't pay. Do you think that would be an acceptable solution?
 

Mr. Snakey

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In just six months, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect. They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves on January 1, 2011:
(N.B. This version of the document contains even more tax hikes than the original version did)

First Wave: Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief

In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families. These will all expire on January 1, 2011:

Personal income tax rates will rise. The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed). The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent. All the rates in between will also rise. Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as higher marginal tax rates. The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

- The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%
- The 25% bracket rises to 28%
- The 28% bracket rises to 31%
- The 33% bracket rises to 36%
- The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Higher taxes on marriage and family. The “marriage penalty” (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level. The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.

The return of the Death Tax. This year, there is no death tax. For those dying on or after January 1 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.

<EDIT : Post truncated to comply with ToS>

Thats true. Heres one they slipped into the Health Care Bill. ABC News.
REVEALED: Secret Gold Coin Tax Slipped Into Health Care Law...
 
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B_VinylBoy

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If a person is poor, how do they have enough money to buy a car and pay their premium? See how stupid these questions are getting.

You make this way too easy. Here's just a few of the problems that dwell within your careless though process: You assume that a person buying a car is getting a NEW ONE. Also, you assume that their monthly premium is high when this will variate depending on their driving history and location. States with Lowest Car Insurance Rates in 2010

You also assume that everyone who owns a car is also paying a premium. Many people in this country drive without any form of car insurance. Did this go into your assessment as to how "stupid" my questioning is, or do I have to explain to you how poor people have to constantly forego other necessities in order to support the few that benefit them the most? Uninsured Driver Statistics : ROAD & TRAVEL Magazine

Again, associating financial stability with car ownership is foolish. For people who have no real options but to use a car, this becomes a necessity and not a symbol of luxury and prosperity. See how ridiculous you look when you don't think out a scenario thoroughly and rush to quick judgements?

I'll say it again, you have a choice. Even your post before last said so. It's funny because when you say, "But when your only options..." you are clearly in agreement with my point. Yet you can continue to act like you disagree with me. There is a disconnect here.

Because I do disagree with you. Pay attention.
The only disconnect that is being displayed here is your unwillingness to realize that some people's "choices" are not any better than what they're already doing. To sit here and say that "everyone has a choice", implying that everyone can do the same thing and have access to all of the same opportunities and quality of options because they're free American citizens is ignorant. Poor people can't simply pack up and move to where all the jobs are as you imply. Also, they can't give up on some necessities without subjecting themselves to other hardships which could make their lives even worse. You either don't realize this, which makes you incapable to discuss this issue like an adult... or you do understand and don't give a sh**, which makes you insensitive and incapable to discuss this issue like an adult. Take your pick. Either way, you don't look good.

Considering your actions of ineptitude on an issue regarding car ownership and the poor, what makes you think anyone should be listening to you in regards to nationwide health care? Let me know if you want to keep playing, because we can do this all day. :rolleyes:
 

KTF40

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Well, try- what other choice do we have? Like I said earlier, we could change the law to allow hospitals to turn away patients if they can't pay. Do you think that would be an acceptable solution?

Nah, not really interested in trying. I understand your point of view and could probably say nothing to change your mind. Plus, this kind of debate would require way too much time and energy and I just don't have the passion for it over an internet forum. I usually stick to topics I know I'm right on. Just look at my original post in this thread that simply stated Obama has already begun tax hikes (which isn't even debatable, it's a fact) and has somehow spiraled into this debate about people trying to convince me that poor people are forced to buy cars. I can only imagine what other kinds of ridiculous conclusions people would come up with if I engaged in this discussion.
 

TomCat84

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Nah, not really interested in trying. I understand your point of view and could probably say nothing to change your mind. Plus, this kind of debate would require way too much time and energy and I just don't have the passion for it over an internet forum. I usually stick to topics I know I'm right on. Just look at my original post in this thread that simply stated Obama has already begun tax hikes (which isn't even debatable, it's a fact) and has somehow spiraled into this debate about people trying to convince me that poor people are forced to buy cars. I can only imagine what other kinds of ridiculous conclusions people would come up with if I engaged in this discussion.

Whatever dude. You don't know what you're talking about, you don't wanna have to try and take your POV to its logical conclusion, or debate the merits of what I said, so you refuse to do so. Fan-fucking-tastic :rolleyes:
 
D

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^ yes as usual they bail when the facts get in the way. the discussion is black and white, one or zero. otherwise overload overload overload, get the fire extinguisher. she's gonna blow.
 
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KTF40

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You make this way too easy. Here's just a few of the problems that dwell within your careless though process: You assume that a person buying a car is getting a NEW ONE. Also, you assume that their monthly premium is high when this will variate depending on their driving history and location. States with Lowest Car Insurance Rates in 2010

You also assume that everyone who owns a car is also paying a premium. Many people in this country drive without any form of car insurance. Did this go into your assessment as to how "stupid" my questioning is, or do I have to explain to you how poor people have to constantly forego other necessities in order to support the few that benefit them the most? Uninsured Driver Statistics : ROAD & TRAVEL Magazine

Again, associating financial stability with car ownership is foolish. For people who have no real options but to use a car, this becomes a necessity and not a symbol of luxury and prosperity. See how ridiculous you look when you don't think out a scenario thoroughly and rush to quick judgements?



Because I do disagree with you. Pay attention.
The only disconnect that is being displayed here is your unwillingness to realize that some people's "choices" are not any better than what they're already doing. To sit here and say that "everyone has a choice", implying that everyone can do the same thing and have access to all of the same opportunities and quality of options because they're free American citizens is ignorant. Poor people can't simply pack up and move to where all the jobs are as you imply. Also, they can't give up on some necessities without subjecting themselves to other hardships which could make their lives even worse. You either don't realize this, which makes you incapable to discuss this issue like an adult... or you do understand and don't give a sh**, which makes you insensitive and incapable to discuss this issue like an adult. Take your pick. Either way, you don't look good.

Considering your actions of ineptitude on an issue regarding car ownership and the poor, what makes you think anyone should be listening to you in regards to nationwide health care? Let me know if you want to keep playing, because we can do this all day. :rolleyes:

Oh. My. God. :facepalm:

Do you not realize that you are agreeing with me? How fucking stupid do you have to be?
 
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KTF40

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Whatever dude. You don't know what you're talking about, you don't wanna have to try and take your POV to its logical conclusion, or debate the merits of what I said, so you refuse to do so. Fan-fucking-tastic :rolleyes:

Just for kicks and giggles, what according to you is my point of view that need to be taken to a logical conclusion?
 

B_VinylBoy

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Oh. My. God. :facepalm:

Do you not realize that you are agreeing with me? How fucking stupid do you have to be?

Apparently not stupid enough to see that you're stuck on a small and meaningless factoid about "having a choice", when I've told you in several different ways that for some people their other choices aren't feasible ones at all. For these people, metaphorically speaking, they DON'T have a choice.

You're a little slow, aren't ya? :rolleyes:
 

KTF40

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Apparently not stupid enough to see that you're stuck on a small and meaningless factoid about "having a choice", when I've told you in several different ways that for some people their other choices aren't feasible ones at all. For these people, metaphorically speaking, they DON'T have a choice.

You're a little slow, aren't ya? :rolleyes:

Regardless of whether their other choices are feasible or not, they have a choice. So, for the extreme case that you continue to go with, either buy a car or choose an option that may cause great hardship. That's a choice.

When it comes to mandated health insurance, you have no choice except to pay money out of your pocket.
 

KTF40

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No, I'm not going to play your game until you review the posts and respond to my question.

Lol! The truth is you don't have any idea what my pov on the matter is because I haven't said it in this thread other than I'll wait for the courts to decide the matter because that is all we can do.