Taxes are bad (in general)

[Ethyl]

No you don't get it. My hard work benefits someone retired right now. Thats the social contract we call Social Security. The fact that the timing doesn't favor you is unfortunate.

I understand how Social Security works. Your condescending attitude doesn't work for us. That was my point.

BTW your assault on my supposed * nouveau riche* attitude is rich, given that likely most of your clients are NR. They have the money to afford an interior designer/space planner. Your career is one of the most socially useless there is. What poor person needs an interior designer? However and please read this for what it truly means, your career adds exciting color and vibrancy that we sorely need. Why do renasaince people like you exist? Because of money grubbers like me. Been that way since the time of the Medici's and the artists, like Giotto. You need my *greed* and I value your talent. Symbiosis.

You need to stop watching so much HGTV. You obviously know much less about my profession than you think. It's not just about throw pillows and paint. Amoung the other facets of my career, i've drawn structural plans for schools, offices, and banks....things we do need in society. I don't have a problem with the nouveau riche in general and no, they are not my only clients. I have a problem with your specific attitude and the fact you mistakenly seem to think you're well-informed about all aspects of the issue at hand.

NR got that usually by working hard. It doesn't just fall into their laps. I like the NR, because i know they have worked really hard to get where they are. That hard work has benefitted a lot of people.

Of course they did. But my generation is having to work twice as hard to get to where you are today.

Your generation will be characterized by the choices you make. Good or bad

I'm beginning to think a revolt might do us some good.

 

[Freddie53]

In this enclave of progressives, I thought i would like to get some feedback.

Taxes suck. They are a necessary evil but they are bad. I realize some level of taxation is necessary in a functioning society but the higher they get, the more damaging they are to that society. Look at Europe.

Using myself as an example: I am incorporated, I pay about $2600/month in Fed tax plus about $25K in quarterly Feds. Plus state. Thats a lot of money. What do I get for it? Its not clear to me.

Now I thought I was gonna have to cough up an additional $50K by 4/17 but I had some weird losses i could carry forward. So what did I do with this money I thought I had to pay in tax? I spent it on fun stuff that I wanted. I got to spend my money in my own way.

People can only do 3 things with their own money: Save it, which is good for the economy; invest it, which is good for the economy; spend it, which is good for the economy. Its all good.

Taxes are bad and i fear that we are heading for more taxation with the newer congress we have in place. And how many here were ensnared in the Alternative Minimum Tax?

Using this site as an example I believe MercurialBliss is an interior designer. I am gonna spend that extra 50K (plus lots more) getting some fun stuff done. If the money went to MB( actually someone like her in my town, if you lived here MB I would have spent it with you ) how is that bad? How many here would have a better financial outlook if people/customers had more money to spend?

I would love some input from people in high tax countries and their thoughts.

I don't generally jump into a thread without having read all the thread, but I just read the opening post and Surfer Boys reply to it.

All people do not pay taxes. The very poor do. I would love to make enough money to pay $50,000 in taxes a year. I would rather make enough money to pay $100,000 in taxes.

I know there is government waste, but it cost money to have roads and police protection and a military that keeps other nations who want what we have from coming over here and getting it.

When middle class people are having a problem making ends meet and have to pay a lot of taxes, I realy feel for them. But when a very rich person complains about taxes and getting to spend $50,000 on just pure pleasure, I can't say I have any sympathy whatsoever. None.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

I understand how Social Security works. Your condescending attitude doesn't work for us. That was my point.

You need to stop watching so much HGTV. You obviously know much less about my profession than you think. It's not just about throw pillows and paint. Amoung the other facets of my career, i've drawn structural plans for schools, offices, and banks....things we do need in society. I don't have a problem with the nouveau riche in general and no, they are not my only clients. I have a problem with your specific attitude and the fact you mistakenly seem to think you're well-informed about all aspects of the issue at hand.

Of course they did. But my generation is having to work twice as hard to get to where you are today.

I'm beginning to think a revolt might do us some good.

I understand exactly what you do. I have watched a designer/space planner look at a box and create a design that uses the space in the absolute best way. I respect that. I respect your eye. I am talking about large commercial spaces and their highest and best use. that what i thought you did.

The attitude that your generation having it tougher is not born out by the facts. This is a time of great wealth creation.

 

[Lordpendragon]

Call that tough, we used to be woken three hours before we went to bed, work thrity eight hours down the mill......................and who'd have have thought we'd be sat here today drinking Chateaux de Chaselet.

22% Tax - Jesus you don't know you are born - try minimum 50%. I didn't even get a thank you card.

 

[YourAvgGuy]

There is a misunderstanding and likely my error. I can handle taxes. But overall taxes hurt more than help. They don't really hurt me. I have a great life and contribute even more than you to charity. I gladly do it. I have a great life. Its getting better. Its the little guy tying to move up that onerous taxes hurt. I worry for him/her.

I like being charitable. I just needed to illustrate my point in a selfish way. I really believe greed is good. Humans are an acquisitive animal. I would never want my grasp to reach my desires. that why I want to fuck lots of people!! LOL

BTW I am putting in, maybe, a distressed either pine or hickory floor. that shit is costly!!!!!

Maybe I am naive or shallow... I don't know which, but your need to illustrate your point is indeed selfish. I cannot relate. I have been blessed immensely and like many, have a wonderful life. It is not all about lush and lavish material things - but more about those humanitarian effots, those socialable connections and those relationships fostered with everyday people whom impact my life more considerably. Indeed, we are acquisitive by nature, but that does not allow us to circumvent greed with good. Total opposites I am afraid. Your need to belabour this point makes me wonder where your humanitarian postion lies.

As I mentioned, it is nice to be able to do things that you want, especially if you have worked hard for them. It is another to be a good steward of your wealth and to be accountable. Don't get me wrong... I enjoy very fine things, too... nice cars, a beautiful home, fabulous vacations and vacation home, etc., but with these "BLESSINGS" comes other responsibilities, too. Simply throwing your wealth around and giving to charity does not make you humanitarian. Your actions and your desire to implement change to help create a better system for those less fortunate and to give without grudge is the element or equation that you are missing. Taxes provide for those less priviledge and likewise, secures their ability to live. I want people to be healthy and to feel like they are contributing to our society - through whatever mechanism (taxes, arts, mentoring, academia, whatever), but they might not be able to realize those ambitions. You, on the other hand, have been afforded the opportunity to live without prejudice, fear of not being able to pay bills or fear of choosing what prescription you will do without to pay your lightbill. To spend $50K without consideration and then to harp because you might have had to pay it in taxes truly exemplifies where your priorties lay. Again, your words, I am afraid, speak the opposite of that of humanitarian.

Maybe I am wrong but the portrait you've painted here is clearly abstract from what you seem to say and how you are saying it. Maybe the articulation is confused but then, maybe that is the paradigm in which you wish for us to see you? Either way, what you compose in your statements is a far cry for any of us to support or jump on the bandwagon.

Oh, and yes, hickory floors are nice but since you are doing it up "nicely" I would suggest mahogany with inlay of fine marble or high grade slate - it will show off a more refined entrance, living or dining room area. Surely, if done right, will add that elegance of refined living that it appears you are accustomed....

And forgive me... the element of sarcasm does prevail.

 

[Blocko]

There is a misunderstanding and likely my error. I can handle taxes. But overall taxes hurt more than help. They don't really hurt me. I have a great life and contribute even more than you to charity. I gladly do it. I have a great life. Its getting better. Its the little guy tying to move up that onerous taxes hurt. I worry for him/her.

I like being charitable. I just needed to illustrate my point in a selfish way. I really believe greed is good. Humans are an acquisitive animal. I would never want my grasp to reach my desires. that why I want to fuck lots of people!! LOL

BTW I am putting in, maybe, a distressed either pine or hickory floor. that shit is costly!!!!!

All current models show that greed (or self-supporting action) vs group action is actually not a black and white. I've worked on computer simulations of interpersonal environments using evolutionary game theory and I can tell you, altruism, non-destructive self interest and collective mutual altruism is what arrives at the optimum behaviour for the largest amount of people in combination.

Taxes actually drive the economy when governments invest them wisely. Infrastructure benefits business as much if not more than the common man. The government also funds large public works projects that are out of the range of even the larger corporations to invest in. Not only that, taxes produce a social and flow on dividend by providing necessary services that can't turn a direct tangible profit without negatively impacting society.

What, do you think the government burns all your tax dollars? The government spending their tax dollars helps the economy as much as you spending yours, if not more.

The governmental structure is also oriented to protect and help the economy. The government can use your tax money to prevent a depression, as it is the only body with enough income to act on such a large scale. Keynesian theory leans towards government deficit spending in times of low inflation and poor economic outlooks.

Even the idealogical nutcases running the Bush government employed Neo-Keynesian policies to help stabilise the American economy, albeit through McNamaraesque military spending, cash injections and large contracts to corporations involved in the reconstruction of Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Maybe I am naive or shallow... I don't know which, but your need to illustrate your point is indeed selfish. I cannot relate. I have been blessed immensely and like many, have a wonderful life. It is not all about lush and lavish material things - but more about those humanitarian effots, those socialable connections and those relationships fostered with everyday people whom impact my life more considerably. Indeed, we are acquisitive by nature, but that does not allow us to circumvent greed with good. Total opposites I am afraid. Your need to belabour this point makes me wonder where your humanitarian postion lies.

As I mentioned, it is nice to be able to do things that you want, especially if you have worked hard for them. It is another to be a good steward of your wealth and to be accountable. Don't get me wrong... I enjoy very fine things, too... nice cars, a beautiful home, fabulous vacations and vacation home, etc., but with these "BLESSINGS" comes other responsibilities, too. Simply throwing your wealth around and giving to charity does not make you humanitarian. Your actions and your desire to implement change to help create a better system for those less fortunate and to give without grudge is the element or equation that you are missing. Taxes provide for those less priviledge and likewise, secures their ability to live. I want people to be healthy and to feel like they are contributing to our society - through whatever mechanism (taxes, arts, mentoring, academia, whatever), but they might not be able to realize those ambitions. You, on the other hand, have been afforded the opportunity to live without prejudice, fear of not being able to pay bills or fear of choosing what prescription you will do without to pay your lightbill. To spend $50K without consideration and then to harp because you might have had to pay it in taxes truly exemplifies where your priorties lay. Again, your words, I am afraid, speak the opposite of that of humanitarian.

Maybe I am wrong but the portrait you've painted here is clearly abstract from what you seem to say and how you are saying it. Maybe the articulation is confused but then, maybe that is the paradigm in which you wish for us to see you? Either way, what you compose in your statements is a far cry for any of us to support or jump on the bandwagon.

Oh, and yes, hickory floors are nice but since you are doing it up "nicely" I would suggest mahogany with inlay of fine marble or high grade slate - it will show off a more refined entrance, living or dining room area. Surely, if done right, will add that elegance of refined living that it appears you are accustomed....

And forgive me... the element of sarcasm does prevail.

I don't give 2 shits on how you see me. Winning praise on an internet site is faint praise indeed.

Obviously I placed some bait out there and everyone jumped in as i expected. In truth its what we do in flesh and blood that counts on that we agree. I will use Dick Cheney as an example. The guy is vilified here but he earned $8.8 million last year and he and his wife gave $6.9 million away to inner city charities, health care, education, and child services. My latest stats on Al Gore is he gave $12000 to charity. In 1996 Gore gave $412. Some talk the talk and some walk the walk.

I myself work one day and year and donate that, about $5000 to the poor and homeless and handicapped. I do charitable work for so many causes i have no more room for the plaques i get in recognition. i just store them. Me and my friends bought a school bus for kids in Uganda so they could get to school.

Thats not the point. The point is that economics is clear. Why do you think income taxes are the best way to re distribute income? When does taxation become too onerous?

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

From blocko:

>>>The government spending their tax dollars helps the economy as much as you spending yours, if not more.<<<

I don't believe this to be true. I spend money relatively efficiently. The government does not. I agree with the stuff about the infrastructure but a lot of gov spending is inefficient. The bigger the inefficiency the more the small man is hurt. Rich people aren't hurt by inefficiencies but the little man is.

 

[Lex]

I don't give 2 shits on how you see me. ..

Yes you do or you would not be here (still) responding to their posts.

...
Obviously I placed some bait out there and everyone jumped in as i expected. In truth its what we do in flesh and blood that counts on that we agree. I will use Dick Cheney as an example. The guy is vilified here but he earned $8.8 million last year and he and his wife gave $6.9 million away to inner city charities, health care, education, and child services. My latest stats on Al Gore is he gave $12000 to charity. In 1996 Gore gave $412. Some talk the talk and some walk the walk...

I myself work one day and year and donate that, about $5000 to the poor and homeless and handicapped. I do charitable work for so many causes i have no more room for the plaques i get in recognition. i just store them. Me and my friends bought a school bus for kids in Uganda so they could get to school.
...

Unlike you, I don't feel the need to judge people by the dollar amount they give to charity. Not everyone can afford to give money--some give time. Soem who can afford to give, don't. Again, not my place to judge. You gave $5000. I have given 13 years working with and on behalf of disabled students, althewhile being underpaid and giving money and items. Now who's the bigger contributor?

You finally exposed your need to bash a democrat with this topic. What about all the time and energy Gore invests in social issues?

 

[Lordpendragon]

I am not going to have a pop at you gooseygoosey - I remember one of your other posts when you talked about money - I think you said you earned around $600K per annum - good on you. Some are happy to talk about money, others including myself, don't. But for sure each to their own.

And yes, actions speak louder than words. Prince Charles was mocked for talking about the environement 25 years ago or so.

There is a point at which tax is counter productive - we have hit it in Europe IMO, but at 22% in the States, you are way behind - but it's all relative.

I would say that you should be paying more tax, maybe 30% - but hey I would be worried that you'd invade Europe with the spare cash :biggrin1:

 

[amiegrrl]

What I think is missing from this discussion is that (at least in the U.S.) the government is US - the PEOPLE. WE are the government... at least we're supposed to be. Unfortunately we choose to elect incompetant half-wits into office that, having grown up a millionaires, never had to write an actual budget themselves and spend our tax dollars willy-nilly on stupid bullshit like blowing people up.

I am a single mother, I work and pay taxes - I am also a student, earning my Pre-Med degree. Until recently I have also been the recipient of government aid. The process of receiving aid is demeaning at best, and thanks to our 6.5% unemployment rate (Michigan) in this land of 'opportunity' my young daughter and I have been nearly homeless on several occasions. If not for government aid, I would likely be putting my beautiful daughter to bed tonight in a homeless shelter here in Grand Rapids.

I am studying to be a doctor and will be making a very good living in the near future. I would gladly pay TWICE the taxes I do now if it meant having full access to the health services my family wants and needs, if it meant that everyone had access to schooling and more single mothers like myself would be able to earn a degree - teaching their children how to overcome adversity and stop the cycle of dependance. Behavior is learned - we need to find a way to HELP dependant people, not cut their lifeline. I agree that people abuse the system. I KNOW people who abuse the system. That is wrong. But PEOPLE are more important than MONEY. Greedy people live and die alone in their opulence - people by and large are repulsed by such selfishness... I'd rather have less money, surrounded by family and friends - people I've not alienated with self-serving greed.

Good luck picking out your floors, Wyldgusechaz I'm glad you didn't have to waste the money supporting us lazy welfare cases. You know, I've always been a fan of pine.

 

[YourAvgGuy]

I don't give 2 shits on how you see me. Winning praise on an internet site is faint praise indeed.

Obviously I placed some bait out there and everyone jumped in as i expected. In truth its what we do in flesh and blood that counts on that we agree. I will use Dick Cheney as an example. The guy is vilified here but he earned $8.8 million last year and he and his wife gave $6.9 million away to inner city charities, health care, education, and child services. My latest stats on Al Gore is he gave $12000 to charity. In 1996 Gore gave $412. Some talk the talk and some walk the walk.

I myself work one day and year and donate that, about $5000 to the poor and homeless and handicapped. I do charitable work for so many causes i have no more room for the plaques i get in recognition. i just store them. Me and my friends bought a school bus for kids in Uganda so they could get to school.

Thats not the point. The point is that economics is clear. Why do you think income taxes are the best way to re distribute income? When does taxation become too onerous?

Point made.. you do give a shit. If you did not you would not continue to dialogue about it. Just an observation.

Secondly, and I think Lex stated it well.... in-kind contributions are just as important as monetary. Obviously a chord has been struck with you - as per your defensiveness to the comments here. You made your claim and you spoke your piece. Sorry, fella, but others are entitled to chime in, regardless if you concur or not.

Face it, you are going to pay taxes until you die. If you dislike it, try moving somewhere else. Your status and your arrogance to those who are less fortunate as well as to those whom probably given signficantly more than you (time, effort, etc) speaks volumes. Your venon to retaliate only further negates your "humanitarian." You give a shit... If you did not you would say the hell with it all and move on.....

There... that's $1,000 worth of talk for you for a couple of seconds. I'll invoice you later. It's all about quality.....

 

[ETA123]

And while the OP continues to worry about what the new congress will do to his taxes, he ignores the hundreds of billions spent by the prior congress while reducing taxes.

See, if you reduce taxes, you have to reduce spending, unfortunately, the last congress never quite caught on to that theory.

So while you throw out complaints about Social Security, you ignore the giant debt that your children will be paying to cover the out of control spending without a corresponding increase in revenue which the previous congress engaged in.

So, yes, taxes are NECESSARY, without them, society as you know it would cease to exist. Those roads you like to drive on every day? Paid for by taxes. Those parks your children play in? Paid for by taxes. There are hundreds of examples of things YOU use every day which would not exist were it not for taxes.

What you should be asking, is not whether taxes are bad, but whether spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave is advisable when you receive a monstrous pay cut (which is, in effect, what the last congress did to the nation by spending the nation into the largest debt in its history, while cutting revenue).

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

What I think is missing from this discussion is that (at least in the U.S.) the government is US - the PEOPLE. WE are the government... at least we're supposed to be. Unfortunately we choose to elect incompetant half-wits into office that, having grown up a millionaires, never had to write an actual budget themselves and spend our tax dollars willy-nilly on stupid bullshit like blowing people up.

I am a single mother, I work and pay taxes - I am also a student, earning my Pre-Med degree. Until recently I have also been the recipient of government aid. The process of receiving aid is demeaning at best, and thanks to our 6.5% unemployment rate (Michigan) in this land of 'opportunity' my young daughter and I have been nearly homeless on several occasions. If not for government aid, I would likely be putting my beautiful daughter to bed tonight in a homeless shelter here in Grand Rapids.

I am studying to be a doctor and will be making a very good living in the near future. I would gladly pay TWICE the taxes I do now if it meant having full access to the health services my family wants and needs, if it meant that everyone had access to schooling and more single mothers like myself would be able to earn a degree - teaching their children how to overcome adversity and stop the cycle of dependance. Behavior is learned - we need to find a way to HELP dependant people, not cut their lifeline. I agree that people abuse the system. I KNOW people who abuse the system. That is wrong. But PEOPLE are more important than MONEY. Greedy people live and die alone in their opulence - people by and large are repulsed by such selfishness... I'd rather have less money, surrounded by family and friends - people I've not alienated with self-serving greed.

Good luck picking out your floors, Wyldgusechaz I'm glad you didn't have to waste the money supporting us lazy welfare cases. You know, I've always been a fan of pine.

I am not a citizen of Michigan but i know whats going on there. Jennifer Granholm is out to kill the state, period. She is raising taxes on a state where the economy is struggling. Thats what i am talking about. Taxes kill business and Michiganders need tax relief.

Good for you amiegrl in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. I applaud you. Are you in Med school now? When you get out and start dealing with welfare patients, insurance, third party billing you are gonna be in for a shock. It will be very discouraging but don't give up.

 

[Lex]

I love the way he (and so many of his ilk) ignore the cogent comments at whim.

It's funny. Not funny queer, funny HA HA.

*eyeroll*

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

I love the way he (and so many of his ilk) ignore the cogent comments at whim.

It's funny. Not funny queer, funny HA HA.

*eyeroll*

I'll bite. What did I not comment on?

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Yes you do or you would not be here (still) responding to their posts.



Unlike you, I don't feel the need to judge people by the dollar amount they give to charity. Not everyone can afford to give money--some give time. Soem who can afford to give, don't. Again, not my place to judge. You gave $5000. I have given 13 years working with and on behalf of disabled students, althewhile being underpaid and giving money and items. Now who's the bigger contributor?

You finally exposed your need to bash a democrat with this topic. What about all the time and energy Gore invests in social issues?

I judged Al Gore, not you. Gore is a voluntary public figure. He is open to judgement. And he can afford it. Same thing for a Republican.

I didn't give $5000, I gave a lot more. I was talking about something else entirely. I give one day a year to anyone that needs my service, usually around Xmas. Anyone can walk into my office, no questions asked and request up to $500 of my office services and get it. Last year about 100 people did and I would guess the dollar amount was about $5000. From me. My partners give a like amount. In total about $20K. Its strict pro bono community service.

Whose the bigger contributor, I couldn't say. Glad we both do something. Every month I help the homeless in homeless shelters and have been doing it for 26 years. I give free service, one a month to the handicapped. A community outreach program picks the person in need and sends them to me. Entirely pro bono.

As a percentage of time/talent we are likely very close.

As an aside, what is better, someone paying more taxes or someone buying an expensive pine floor?

Lets do the math. Pine floor: a landowner was paid for his tree, a lumberjack cut it down, a trucker hauled it to a mill, a millwright milled into flooring planks, the mill owner got a cut, another trucker hauled it to a jobber/warehouse, a longshoremen loaded it, a saleman took a call from MB or someone, it got loaded in a truck again, it got shipped to the job site where is was installed by a flooring contractor with his laborers. Every transaction was transparent and voluntary. Taxes were paid all along the way and the money got distributed to a lot of people. Those were efficient transactions. Where is the bad in that?

Did the exact same thing happen with tax money? Philosophically I say no. Government decisions are not transparent and they are not competitive.

BTW tax revenues right now are at their highest level ever. The top 2% of earners pay 38% of federal tax burden. I believe there is no income tax on wage earners earning less than $40000. A couple with that income level pays NO income tax.

 

[surferboy]

I am older than you so when I retire, your generation will be paying for my country club dues. Its a bullshit deal for you, but I ain't giving the money back for sure.

you don't give two shits one way as long as you have yer precious money. this is just one piece of evidence that you are a completely ignorant douche.

Its interesting that people are so uncomfortable discussing money. Why?

no one here is uncomfortable discussing money. this is just where you started getting defensive. you didn't expect to be called out.

Why should I pay 22% and you pay 10%?

it comes down to what you can afford. i'm a college student working for walgreens. do you honestly think i can afford paying 22% of my already VERY low income in taxes? didn't think so. but of course you don't see why this works. all you see is that you pay more money in taxes than the true middle class does.

There is a misunderstanding and likely my error. I can handle taxes. But overall taxes hurt more than help. They don't really hurt me. I have a great life and contribute even more than you to charity. I gladly do it. I have a great life. Its getting better. Its the little guy tying to move up that onerous taxes hurt. I worry for him/her.

again, you don't seriously give a shit about anyone else's situation but yer own. and a thing about charity: it's not how much one gives. it's the fact that something is done. and that "something" is not limited to donations, not that you would realize this, as it's obvious that the only thing that matters to you is money.

I don't give 2 shits on how you see me. Winning praise on an internet site is faint praise indeed.

exhibit b that yer gettin defensive. it's also WAY clear that you want praise over the internet. you wanted people to be all "wow, this dude has money!" and yer little plan backfired because, unlike you, money isn't the end all be all in our lives.

I judged Al Gore, not you. Gore is a voluntary public figure. He is open to judgement. And he can afford it. Same thing for a Republican.

this goes back to what i said earlier. money isn't the only way to be charitable. al gore raises a lot of awareness for issues that are actually important to the human race. but again, you wouldn't notice it because he didn't say the magic words: "money" and "profit"

I wasn't talking about possible solutions but referring to your nouveau riche attitude of "You poor schlubs are getting the shaft and you should stand up to the gov't. I know you'll be paying MY Social Security but that's your problem, not mine, and i'm glad i'l benefit from all YOUR hard work." It's precisely this attitude that's paved the road for my generation. If you are truly empathetic, you'd understand that.

quoted for truth



so, all in all, as i said earlier, it all comes down to the fact that you created this topic not to like, debate taxes or anything. no; you created this topic as a way to brag about how rich you are (monetarily, of course. you certainly don't have any class), thus proving that you are an ignorant douche.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The economy has never been better.

For the mobile-wealth investor class, yes indeed.

Yet the number of Americans (wage earning families with children in particular) without any form of health insurance has been rising steadily since GWB took office. Their number is approaching 50 million.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

you don't give two shits one way as long as you have yer precious money. this is just one piece of evidence that you are a completely ignorant douche.

You know little about politics. Social Security can never be labeled as welfare. If I gave the money back, that means it becomes welfare to those who accept it. I would certainly give the money away but SSI can't ever look like welfare. thats politically unpalatable.1






no one here is uncomfortable discussing money. this is just where you started getting defensive. you didn't expect to be called out.

I wanted to be called out. You could not be more wrong. I want to provoke discussion. I posed a topic to generate thoughts and feelings. I don't expect agreement. It would be a very boring world if we all agreed.





it comes down to what you can afford. i'm a college student working for walgreens. do you honestly think i can afford paying 22% of my already VERY low income in taxes? didn't think so. but of course you don't see why this works. all you see is that you pay more money in taxes than the true middle class does.

I hope you don't have to pay any tax.





again, you don't seriously give a shit about anyone else's situation but yer own. and a thing about charity: it's not how much one gives. it's the fact that something is done. and that "something" is not limited to donations, not that you would realize this, as it's obvious that the only thing that matters to you is money.

I care deeply about everyone's situation. You think taxes are the way. I think the free market is the way.





exhibit b that yer gettin defensive. it's also WAY clear that you want praise over the internet. you wanted people to be all "wow, this dude has money!" and yer little plan backfired because, unlike you, money isn't the end all be all in our lives.

this is the internet. I don't care what a faceless person thinks of me. I could be lying what would it mean? I don't get strokes from anonymous posters. i do like to provoke thought and get opinions.





this goes back to what i said earlier. money isn't the only way to be charitable. al gore raises a lot of awareness for issues that are actually important to the human race. but again, you wouldn't notice it because he didn't say the magic words: "money" and "profit"

That rings hollow to me. Another do as i say not as i do.





quoted for truth



so, all in all, as i said earlier, it all comes down to the fact that you created this topic not to like, debate taxes or anything. no; you created this topic as a way to brag about how rich you are (monetarily, of course. you certainly don't have any class), thus proving that you are an ignorant douche.

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