Taxes must rise for everyone to pay for all the new spending

[SilverTrain]

I guess if you choose to not look at facts, stick your head in the sand and squeeze your eyelids together as hard as you can, you'd come to your conclusion.

So here's a historical overview for your education:

The tax cuts of the 1920s
Tax rates were slashed dramatically during the 1920s, dropping from over 70 percent to less than 25 percent. What happened? Personal income tax revenues increased substantially during the 1920s, despite the reduction in rates. Revenues rose from $719 million in 1921 to $1164 million in 1928, an increase of more than 61 percent.


According to then-Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon:
The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people.

The Kennedy tax cuts
President Hoover dramatically increased tax rates in the 1930s and President Roosevelt compounded the damage by pushing marginal tax rates to more than 90 percent. Recognizing that high tax rates were hindering the economy, President Kennedy proposed across-the-board tax rate reductions that reduced the top tax rate from more than 90 percent down to 70 percent. What happened? Tax revenues climbed from $94 billion in 1961 to $153 billion in 1968, an increase of 62 percent (33 percent after adjusting for inflation).


According to President John F. Kennedy:
Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now.

The Reagan tax cuts
Thanks to "bracket creep," the inflation of the 1970s pushed millions of taxpayers into higher tax brackets even though their inflation-adjusted incomes were not rising. To help offset this tax increase and also to improve incentives to work, save, and invest, President Reagan proposed sweeping tax rate reductions during the 1980s. What happened? Total tax revenues climbed by 99.4 percent during the 1980s, and the results are even more impressive when looking at what happened to personal income tax revenues. Once the economy received an unambiguous tax cut in January 1983, income tax revenues climbed dramatically, increasing by more than 54 percent by 1989 (28 percent after adjusting for inflation).


According to then-U.S. Representative Jack Kemp (R-NY), one of the chief architects of the Reagan tax cuts:
At some point, additional taxes so discourage the activity being taxed, such as working or investing, that they yield less revenue rather than more. There are, after all, two rates that yield the same amount of revenue: high tax rates on low production, or low rates on high production.

I know, I know, it is unfair of me to confuse you with facts.

Not sure from whence you cooked up your "facts" (citations?).

Here's some actual analysis, with numbers, and statistics, and fun things like that. Strangely, the facts differ from yours.

Tax cuts increase tax collections

 

[B_VinylBoy]

SilverTrain's link is prettier. It has charts and mathematical calculations. :biggrin:

 

[Bbucko]

Not sure from whence you cooked up your "facts" (citations?).

Here's some actual analysis, with numbers, and statistics, and fun things like that. Strangely, the facts differ from yours.

Tax cuts increase tax collections

I'm reminded of a song from my wasted youth...

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

I guess if you choose to not look at facts, stick your head in the sand and squeeze your eyelids together as hard as you can, you'd come to your conclusion.

So here's a historical overview for your education:

The tax cuts of the 1920s
Tax rates were slashed dramatically during the 1920s, dropping from over 70 percent to less than 25 percent. What happened? Personal income tax revenues increased substantially during the 1920s, despite the reduction in rates. Revenues rose from $719 million in 1921 to $1164 million in 1928, an increase of more than 61 percent.


According to then-Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon:
The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people.

The Kennedy tax cuts
President Hoover dramatically increased tax rates in the 1930s and President Roosevelt compounded the damage by pushing marginal tax rates to more than 90 percent. Recognizing that high tax rates were hindering the economy, President Kennedy proposed across-the-board tax rate reductions that reduced the top tax rate from more than 90 percent down to 70 percent. What happened? Tax revenues climbed from $94 billion in 1961 to $153 billion in 1968, an increase of 62 percent (33 percent after adjusting for inflation).


According to President John F. Kennedy:
Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now.

The Reagan tax cuts
Thanks to "bracket creep," the inflation of the 1970s pushed millions of taxpayers into higher tax brackets even though their inflation-adjusted incomes were not rising. To help offset this tax increase and also to improve incentives to work, save, and invest, President Reagan proposed sweeping tax rate reductions during the 1980s. What happened? Total tax revenues climbed by 99.4 percent during the 1980s, and the results are even more impressive when looking at what happened to personal income tax revenues. Once the economy received an unambiguous tax cut in January 1983, income tax revenues climbed dramatically, increasing by more than 54 percent by 1989 (28 percent after adjusting for inflation).


According to then-U.S. Representative Jack Kemp (R-NY), one of the chief architects of the Reagan tax cuts:
At some point, additional taxes so discourage the activity being taxed, such as working or investing, that they yield less revenue rather than more. There are, after all, two rates that yield the same amount of revenue: high tax rates on low production, or low rates on high production.

I know, I know, it is unfair of me to confuse you with facts.

Wow a breath of fresh air here. A poster who knows economics, capital and wealth creation.

You are going to have tough time here, where these dorky progressives will argue plain black and white statisitcs as being wrong.

 

[mikeyh9in]

Wow a breath of fresh air here. A poster who knows economics, capital and wealth creation.

You are going to have tough time here, where these dorky progressives will argue plain black and white statisitcs as being wrong.

This actually almost made me fall on the floor laughing... "facts"... Jack Kemp is far from an economic brain trust... he should stick to commenting on football.

WildGuzChas... check the real statistics and facts in SilerTrain post.

 

[Ajacoid]

Well, I tried. Horse and water and all. The problem will be that in order for me to go "HA HA" and point when I've been proven right, is that it will be on the ruins of what was once the great United States, destroyed by the dumbassness of liberals. Yeah, I made that word up.

 

[SilverTrain]

Yeah, I made that word up.

Just like the rest of your "facts"!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Well, I tried. Horse and water and all. The problem will be that in order for me to go "HA HA" and point when I've been proven right, is that it will be on the ruins of what was once the great United States, destroyed by the dumbassness of liberals. Yeah, I made that word up.

All your numbers mean jack shit.
Or did you forget what happened to our economy from 2006 to early 2009?
Perhaps you did, but the rest of the world didn't. So yeah, you can live back in the 1920s. We'll stay in the present.

 

[mikeyh9in]

I think this is the closest thing we will get to an apology.

"I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling statistics and facts."

Well, I tried. Horse and water and all. The problem will be that in order for me to go "HA HA" and point when I've been proven right, is that it will be on the ruins of what was once the great United States, destroyed by the dumbassness of liberals. Yeah, I made that word up.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I think this is the closest thing we will get to an apology.

"I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling statistics and facts."

Not only that, but he's stealing credit for "dumbassness" as well. In the Urban Dictionary since 2004! Urban Dictionary: dumbassness

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Say we raise taxes on the richest 3% of Americans. The top 3% make about $600 billion/year.

Raise their taxes a full 10%. Do it like this: Extend the Medicare portion of FICA to ALL income. Right now i avoid being taxed on any monies over $100,000 by declaring it a dividend from my shell corporation. All highly compensated folks do this. Totally legal. But close that down.

Bump taxes 7% to 43% or 45%.

Net tax receipts to the money wasting liberal Democrats?: about $70 billion.

Thats it. Not even a drop in the bucket.

Taxes will have to rise for all income levels, even the poorest of the poor.

Good work Phil Ayesho and the rest of the wacko progressives.

you are such a fool... this is like your wildly misrepresentational post on california taxes where you neglected 2/3 of the entire tax structure of the state.

Look here, you skinflint avaricious nincompoop, SOCIETY COSTS FUCKING MONEY.
You want a standing military? It COSTS something.

You want a road to drive down to get to your office? You want Power to that building so you can run your business? You want Water so your property values stay high with nice landscaping and you want to be able to drop your turds down a pipe and not have to bother with the consequences?

ALL of that stuff costs MONEY.

And if you run a business, and take all your loopholes and deductions and live pretty fat and happy, guess what? You are ONLY deriving that benefit because of a society that is RIGGED in your favor, a society that has provided you with all the tools a smart, self driven fella needs to make his way in the world...
And ALL of that infrastructure was paid for from TAXES.


So, seriously, STFU about how much you suffer living high in the hog in one of the most affluent nations on earth.
You can AFFORD to pay for your share of the society.

You derive a greater benefit, you pay a greater portion. That is called FAIR PLAY.

And as to your fellow man, born into poorer circumstance, without the role models and guidance that helped you thrive, without access to the social circles and education that gave you a leg up, or, even without the resolve and gumption to take the risks you take daily in owning your own business...

Well, take some fucking ownership that THOSE ARE YOUR EMPLOYEES... that sector of society makes YOUR life possible.

And if you have to pay a little more because they aren't as productive as you, recognize that they WOULD pay more if YOU fucking PAID them more.


And as to the poor, the destitute, the mentally unbalanced or otherwise handicapped people who have a much tougher life than you or I... those folks who struggle with life... or those who struggled their whole lives and are now elderly and in need of help...

Fuck your unChristian skinflint rhetoric and attitude.

I am in the same fucking boat you are.. I earn a damn good living and I employee a raft of people and have a business that is hit by the same taxes and issues you whine incessantly about...
And y'know what?

I am proud, and happy to step up and chip in for those whose lives have been less fortunate than mine.

I take every legal deduction I can, because those were put in the tax code to try and make it MORE fair... but I pay my share, proud and happy to contribute to the society that enables me to make a good living at something I love to do.
I am happy I have the CDC keeping pestilence at bay, Happy my drinking water is the safest in the world, happy that my nation is securely defended, Happy to see workers fixing a sewer with the money I chip in.

And your idiotic whining and wildly insufficient math skills complaining about how put upon you are to be asked to pay your share is pathetic, mean, and immoral.


And BTW... where was your fucking outrage over Bush spending trillions on a bullshit war? Where was your outrage when LOWERED taxes resulted in the wholesale destruction of new Orleans because infrastructure couldn't be kept up?
And why? all so folks who are already rich, can keep a little more of the money they bank and never even spend.


Why don't you disconnect your house from the Internet ( developed with government tax dollars ) Turn off your computer ( developed as the result of government funded research into Quantum mechanics) Disconnect your house from the electrical grid ( easements and incentives for the building of which was paid for and regulated by your government- often distributing power from damns built by your government ) Disconnect your house from the water supply, ( collected, distributed and purified by your government ) disconnect your toilet from the sewer and crap in a can.
Stop driving your car on public roads, and stop buying food whose prices are low because of government subsidy...
Oh- and give up your FIDC insurance on all the money you have managed to accrue.

Put up a fence to keep out all the conservatives who will be clamoring to share in your tax free heaven, and name your own little corner of the earth the independent free nation of Dumbfuckistan.

I am sick and tired of greedy self absorbed jerks who want everyone else to pay for the government so they can get off without paying shit.

And yeah- after cutting taxes to the ultra-rich for the past 20 years... it turns out our government is underfunded.
Big surprise.

Y'know, back when Eisenhower was president and taxes on the rich were nearly 50%, the Rich were STILL rich, entrepreneurs STILL thrived, and the US was the manufacturing and economic envy of the world.

Your childish hysteria over taxes is not supported by history.
And recent history shows that cutting taxes to the rich results in usury, graft, corruption, scams and our political process bought and sold by the highest bidder.

Seriously, you sad bastards HAD your day in the sun... you had your rise to the top... and you fucked it all up.