Taxes Reach Historic Low

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ColoradoGuy, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. ColoradoGuy

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    The Orange County Register reports that federal taxes are the lowest since 1955 for a family of four...

    So, how do we reconcile that with the demand for tax cuts?
     
  2. houtx48

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    I have no data to back this up but it seems that when taxes are higher people bitch more but work harder and create more work making the economy better.........Now don't go all ballistic on me.
     
  3. B_VinylBoy

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    Sadly, you can't.
    Taxes have been forever labelled as being "evil" in the minds of civilians so regardless of their current position they'll always "boo" when someone suggests that they be raised and "yay" when someone suggests that they be lowered. It's like the computer game Sim City from many years back. Every time you tried to adjust taxes up or down, the same exact thing happens. Back then I thought it was just a little "easter egg" to the game just for humor. But I grew up to realize that it was exposing more truth about our society than intended.

    The only way to combat this is to educate and hope that the logical can break through to some people. Taxes eventually have to be raised in order for any state or country to generate revenue. Alas, considering the current state of politics in our country where beliefs are valued more than facts with the emotionally illogical, it's hard to remain optimistic.
     
  4. mrsatisfier

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    Theres more bitching now than there was when taxes were sky high. Not only are the "low taxes at any cost" types screaming louder than ever even though taxes are at historic lows... But now the people who were never in favor of cutting the American quality of life to save a few dollars on taxes are screaming louder than ever now too.

    The thing is though, only way the "low taxes at any cost" types would ever shut up about taxation is if the country literally disintegrated, and there was no level of govt left of any kind. (this is a stated goal for a number of them) Only pure, untaxed anarchy will fully satisfy them. So, I say we give them what they want... Flat out 100% shut down the govt, full stop. No more military, schools, hospitals, police, fire, no NOTHING... Then, those of us who are really, really sick of dealing with these ignorant, self serving sociopaths, can freely go about exterminating them. With no govt to create laws and enforce them, we will be free to solve the fundamental problem eating away at our society; there are elements among us who do not believe America should exist, unless they are in control of it. These two opposing ideals fundamentally cannot peacefully coexist. We can't have 80% of America ready to move forward together, and 20% of America dead set determined to make all Americans slaves to their wholly self serving agenda, and if they can't do it, then they want no part of America and prefer to destroy it. That's no way to live, and it's no way to lead a society of 310 million people.

    America's fight isn't about taxes, it's about those who believe America exists to serve all citizens equally (as is blatantly stated in the Constitution), and those who believe America only exists to serve themselves, regardless of the harm their whims cause to other citizens.
     
  5. Drifterwood

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    List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is interesting, if out of date. It is easy to sort by amount. The Middle Eastern countries currently going through democratic change also have very low taxes which suggests quite a lot.

    But with regard to the US at 28% or so, I would say that that is just about right or perhaps a little low. I would have expected it to be around 30% in normal times and perhaps a few extra measures now to cover wars and financial crises.

    Overall though, a fair but lower taxation system is economically preferable, as after a point of fiscal efficiency, people are better at spending or saving their own money than government.
     
  6. ColoradoGuy

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    Well said... I believe the American ideal is about all citizens working together to ensure life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all citizens. Thanks for that moment of clarity, mrsatisfier.
     
  7. Domisoldo

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    - The Federal Income Tax is only 1 piece of a whole, one that an obscenely high percentage of Americans (47%) don't pay at all, to the detriment of the other half, which is responsible for delivering their US government for free. A recent poll shows that one half of America finds its tax burden "fair". Guess which one?

    - The tax burden from other levels of government has risen in many parts of the country (higher state income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, fee galore, ...).

    - Public awareness of the odious amount of waste the central government can generate is also on the rise. Yes, this also applies to the sacro-sanct DoD.

    - While the mainstream media rightly highlight the uneven distribution of income and wealth in the US, they also fail to note that no other advanced nations so heavily rely on top earners, wealth producers to finance the government.
     
    #7 Domisoldo, Apr 19, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  8. hud01

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    As soon as people start paying to have their own roads plowed and police salaries paid for this statement might hold water
     
  9. B_VinylBoy

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    That's not a fair assessment.
    Most of the people who make up the high percentage of Americans that don't pay Federal Income Tax are also the poorest people in this nation. I doubt that they think the current tax system is fair by any stretch of the imagination. However, since the few pennies they make throughout the year just to live aren't taken away by taxes on April 15th I could see why they may be in favor of it. Because if it was any worse, they would be homeless.

    To be honest... if there was a more sensible tax system in place, one that isn't notoriously manipulated by the top earners in order to secure excessive profits to begin with every single year, then our nation would be just like every other "advanced nation" out there. As it stands now in America, all federal, state and local taxes combined are a lower percentage of per-capita income than at any time since the 1960s. The highest income-tax bracket is its lowest since 1992. At 35 percent, it's well below the 50 percent mark of much of the 1980s and the 70 percent bracket of the 1970s. This has much more to do with why our economy is in such shambles, even more than those on the bottom rungs that "don't pay taxes".

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/-117079-ocprint--.html
     
  10. Drifterwood

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    That is what I meant by fiscal efficiency. Your country, you decide where that point is. But I would say from the Euro experience that you should be mindful of having services delivered through the public sector that would be better delivered by the private competitive sector. The public sector is a monopoly ultimately and monopolies have never been good value for money.
     
  11. Domisoldo

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    ...and to be fair, there are bloated private-sector monopolies too, but even they are more accountable to shareholders than government services are to taxpayers.
     
  12. Domisoldo

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    :confused: Non sequitur, anyone?

    The man is alluding to the rational allocation of resources between the public and private sectors.

    Besides, if we must wallow in demagoguery, a more apt illustration would be the long-dead police officer's widow's pension, and the now-retired firefighter's health care bills, which are far more responsible for bankrupting municipalities, counties and states than compensation for the active forces.


     
  13. SilverTrain

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    So much rhetoric.

    And yet no one is addressing the point of the OP: that while taxes are at an historic low, the drumbeat continues to the tune that it's the high rate of taxation that is holding the economy back. Which is just balderdash.

    The issue of public vs. private delivery of certain essential services is a commonly employed diversion of this topic. But the fact remains that the very reason these services (such as the provision of water, electricity, etc.) are delivered through the state is that they do not represent viable profit opportunities for private business. Only if the cost of such services was increased dramatically would they become "profitable". And no one wants to pay more for these services do they?

    Back to the OP: taxes are low, the economy is in the dumper. Correlation? Only the wealthy (or their mindless foot soldiers) have the gall (or the ignorance) to argue that there is no correlation.
     
  14. ColoradoGuy

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    The OP's point exactly. Thanks, SilverTrain.
     
  15. Drifterwood

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    My bold. I don't know what you count as essential, but a lot of the services that are provided by the State in Euroland are not essential, and could be provided better and cheaper by the private sector. Besides which I am not sure that anyone would disagree that you could cut 10% say from your military budget and still be just as effective.

    In fact, if you have any experience of running a big organisation, you would know that cutting costs adds exponentially to the bottom line compared to increasing revenue. This is especially true in the public sector.

    You can go for revenue growth in an expanding market, but the irony is that in a succeesful established western democracy, a reduction in reliance on the State is a measure of growth and success. Increasing taxes is a clear sign of failure, which I suppose is true of our economies at the moment and why I said previously that I would expect your taxes to rise as ours are.
     
    #15 Drifterwood, Apr 20, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  16. sargon20

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    :lmao::lmao::lmao:At this point in the decades long propaganda effort to sell that lie one can only laugh as we look back on the trillion dollar bailout the private sector received from the public sector a couple years ago in country after country. This is the kind of 'opinion' writing conservatives have been using for years without ever having to actually prove anything. Meanwhile an industry that was once not-for-profit and was meant to benefit the public is now for-profit is now for the benefit of shareholders.
     
    #16 sargon20, Apr 20, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  17. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    I'm curious to know... just which services that are now provided by our government would be provided "better and cheaper" by private sectors? No sense in anyone saying that over and over again, without providing any specifics.
     
  18. sargon20

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    That's how it works VB, you don't have to provide proof. Proof is for sissies. If you see a snake you shoot it, you don't form a committee to study it. It's dangerous you kill it.
     
  19. Domisoldo

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    Didn't you know? In the course of the 20th century, a handful of nations experimented with the All-Public-Sector model, complete with central planning bureaucracies.

    The jury is still out as to whether the experiment was a mere debacle, a "Hot Mess" or a Cluster Fuck From Hell.
     
  20. Drifterwood

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    1. I gave you the benefit not to judge how you do things, yet you seem incapable of considering a different country's alternative experience.

    2. There is a difference between the State paying for something and the State providing it.

    3. There are countries that have 15% tax and fully free health care. Guess how?

    4. Break down where your tax dollars are actually spent and who actually benefits.

    5. I am bored already d'uh d'uh d'uh............ good song that.

    6. I believe you are from Atlantis
     
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