TEA PARTY - how to build a phony movement

[Industrialsize]

You obviously don't know what free speech is. Shouting down the opposition? Elected officials went to their own townhalls and got an ear full from their constituents. That's freedom of speech. Nearly derailed the healthcare bill? A majority of the American people still don't support Obama's healthcare reform, 19 States are fighting its constitutionality, and there are other efforts to repeal and replace it because it was forced down the throats of the voters who said NO in townhalls as you freely admit, voted against it by electing Scott Brown and repeatedly said NO to Obamacare in poll after poll. That's free speech. The kind of free speech Obama and the Democrats want to suppress because it doesn't fit into their agenda.



You've got to be kidding...Obama and the Democrats gave up on civil and honest information along time ago. Misinformation is Obama and the Democrats. And a majority of the American people now know it and are no longer buying the teleprompter rheteric hook line and sinker.

Can't let go of the teleprompter can you......

 

[houtx48]

''Nearly derailed the healthcare bill''............lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll How did that work out? Facequeen is calling.

 

[B_curiousme01]

I do not fault you for your choice. Where you are mistaken is in thinking that the nastiness and hatred comes equally from both sides. It does not, though that's what the politicians and the commentators from the right would lead you to believe. Quote

*** Be honest...this is what you want me to believe no matter my own opinion.

Quote: The media is complicit as well, in promoting conflict and controversy in order to make interesting television. Quote.

More negativeness. I cannot understand why you feel the need to tell me this out of the clear blue sky. Please don't explain. Thanks.

Just because there are two sides to an issue does not mean they are equally valid or equally bad. Furthermore, most issues are more complex than can be described by a simple black or white view. The Republican party has a stated agenda of obstructionism against this administration at all costs. They've made no secret of it, and they employ very underhanded tactics to achieve their goals.
*** ummmmm...hmmmmmm... More of the same. It does bother me that you think I am in need of your political this, that and the other. I am not a child. Quite simply, I may have a different opinion than you and since you don't like it, you go on and on about whatever.

Quote: I'm just telling you the truth. It's up to you whether or not you accept it, consider it with an open mind, or brush it aside. [/COLOR][/B]

****I think you are over the top with your own truth. Like I said, politics is ugly business with no light in sight. All done visiting the political threads.

 

[midlifebear]

Yeah, the He/She and Holy It is fixated on teleprompters. Eisenhower used the first generation teleprompters, Kennedy used, them Nixon depended upon them, Ford used them, the peanut farmer used them, Reagan needed them, Ford used them, Bush the Elder used them, Bush the Younger used them (but couldn't read), and so now the He/She and Holy It pulls out a Faux News talking point from before the last presidential election that Obama is somehow addicted to them? The longer it presses that Obama is dependent upon teleprompters the longer it thinks it will magically become the truth. Q: Who is the biggest make it up and never let it go liar on this site? A: The He/She and Holy It. Frank Luntz? Lundts? Putz? It's time to get new material. For some reason the He/She and Holy It wnats everyone to believe the Obama Presidency is a failure. It hasn't failed thus far.

 

[maxcok]

More negativeness. I cannot understand why you feel the need to tell me this out of the clear blue sky. Please don't explain. Thanks.

I have already explained, and like it or not, I will respond to your post. You don't get to make a statement about my motives and then call an end the discussion. That's not how 'free speech' works.

It was not "out of the clear blue sky". You posted an opinion on a political forum, and I responded, very thoughtfully I might add. You expressed dismay over the tone of the political forum, and by extension your frustration with the rancor and vitriol in the national political debate. It is a frustration I share, as I said, one that most reasonable people share. I tried to explain, as simply and as gently as possible, the reasons for this deplorable state of affairs. As far as your perception of "negativeness", I read that as defensiveness on your part. The truth is not always simple and pretty - in the real world it's not always fluffy clouds and rainbows, and everybody doesn't sing in perfect harmony, much as we might wish. If you find this upsetting I will not be held responsible, so long as I am being reasonably sensitive and speaking the truth.

I think you are over the top with your own truth.

Naturally it is from my own perspective, but my perspective comes from being a free-thinker, very well-informed from a wide variety of sources and carefully considering all sides before coming to a conclusion. I don't tow any party line, and I have been plenty critical of the president and the Democrats in this forum and elsewhere. I agree with them far more often than not though, not because of any party loyalty. I agree with them because more often than not they are by far the more rational, by far more tolerant and forward looking, and have more the interests of the people at heart.

I am an American and think they have a right to Free Speach just like every other American.

As do you. As do I.

What is wrong with agreeing to disagree? Or maybe trying to understand a different opinion without being visicious?

I could turn that question around and ask you if you have honestly considered my opinion. Have you?
I perceive you as very sensitive emotionally. I hope you appreciate that I have made every effort to be as gentle and civil as possible here. Again, I would encourage you to take a look - with an open mind inasfar as you are capable - at where the true visciousness originates. It is not equally distributed, not by a long shot. To roll over in the face of verbal attacks is to succumb to tyranny, and the country and all of us will suffer, you as well. The right-wing has already won more than half the battle by convincing people like you that the left is just as bad. Nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, I fault the president and the Democrats for not standing up to face this strongly enough.

I have read through some of the Political threads here and they can be very ugly and depressing. Constructive debate with give and take has always worked fairly. 'My way or the highway' is selfish and detrimental to society.

I completely agree with that last statement. However, "constructive debate" isn't possible when one side is intent on shouting down and derailing any honest discussion. "Give and take" hardly exists anymore in the national political arena, unless it is the Democrats giving ground and the Republicans taking. This forum is simply a reflection and a microcosm of that. The ugly truth is that "my way or the highway" is precisely the tactic openly and blatantly employed by the Republicans at the moment. The truth may be uncomfortable to bear, and you are free to ignore and reject it. Unfortunately, many do, for a variety of reasons.

Like I said, politics is ugly business with no light in sight. All done visiting the political threads.

You're right about the ugly business, and these days it's maybe as ugly as it has ever been in my lifetime. If you are too sensitive to be engaged, I completely understand. I am tempted to disengage myself, but I know things will not improve if I bury my head in the sand. So for now at least, frustrating and upsetting as it is, I remain connected.

*** Be honest...this is what you want me to believe no matter my own opinion.

I am always honest. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, and only you can change your opinion. I'm only stating my opinion and offering you my insight from what I know to be well-informed and well-reasoned analysis. Do with it what you will. As I already said:

I'm just telling you the truth. It's up to you whether or not you accept it, consider it with an open mind, or brush it aside.

In conclusion I will ask you, and you don't have to answer to me, only to yourself: Why are you a Republican? and is it a valid reason?


p.s. I think your avatar is charming. Thumbelina?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Can't let go of the teleprompter can you......

Trinsanity is just mad that a black man knows how to read. That's all.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

My party is not better than yours. Your party is not better than mine. Instead of working together

There's nothing to 'work together' on with Republicans until they either literally all drop dead from old age, or reject their current ideology and realign it with reality.

Republicans cannot lead, cannot balance a budget and absolutely cannot be trusted to keep their word on any issue (especially natl defense). If they don't like the fate they have made for themselves here in America, then perhaps all of the loons can move to Costa Rica with Rushy poo.

 

[Levi]

Obama is a centrist Democrat????

That has to be the funniest thing I will read all day.

Yeah the trouble is angry white wingnuts like yourself have not the slightest idea what communism is, or socialism for that matter.The reason Marx for example was a highly respected historian and philosopher is because he had a brain and he used it, which is something you might try once in a while.

 

[maxcok]

You obviously don't know what free speech is. Shouting down the opposition? Elected officials went to their own townhalls and got an ear full from their constituents. That's freedom of speech.

Is this democracy? Is this civil discourse and "free speech"? Are these really "constituents"?

Rachel Maddow reports on the "town halls gone wild" that industry backed astroturf groups like Americans for Prosperity are involved in disrupting.

"This is orchestrated outrage. There is a script for this stuff that was written before these events happened and that appears to be instructions to people to shut down these efforts at civic discourse. The web site Think Progress obtained a leaked memo from a group that calls itself Right Principles. The three page memo details how protesters should behave at town hall events. Under the heading "Inside the Hall" it says:

You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early. If he blames Bush for something or offers other excuses -- call him on it, yell back and have someone else tallow-up with a shout-out. The goal is to rattle him.
When the formal Q&A session begins get all your hands up and keep them up.... The balance of the group should applaud when the question is asked, further putting the Rep on the defensive.
​

Who's giving these rent-a-mob instructions like this? Well that memo was written by a man named Bob MacGuffie. Bob McGuffie is associated with an organization called Freedom Works. Freedom Works is a Washington DC lobbying firm, run by former Republican Majority leader Dick Armey. Corporate lobbyists are organizing far right hooligan tactics to disrupt civic meetings about health care reform. This is the organized use of intimidation as a political tool in the United States, and I don't mean intimidation euphemistically. I mean literal intimidation.

This type of tactic, this type of intimidation is a deliberate choice. And it appears to be stoked and organized by corporate lobbyists. And it is not something that is happening in a vacuum. This is well paid lobbyists doing this as a strategy. It's the same thing with the deathers. These scare your grandmother myths that the whole point of health care reform is secretly to kill old people. This patently, patently false rumor about health care reform as we talked about earlier on this show was started by a woman who sits on the board of directors of one of the nations biggest medical device companies."

"This is orchestrated, mob mentality intimidation. This is called hooliganism."

Rachel Maddow on GOP Thugishness....How To Fake A Protest: Right-Wing Media

Wingnuts disrupt Democratic congresswoman....Hard Ball - MSNBC - August 17,2009- Weapons

Tampa Town Hall On Health Care Reform....Bernie Sanders on AstroTurf Health Care

There are so many examples I could post, this is just a cross section. Disturbing, but important I think.

 

[maxcok]

The video in that Rachel Maddow link is not working for me at least, so here's an alternate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlBqx4JKv1s​

 

[B_curiousme01]

I responded to the title of this thread...what I found it and how it is representative of politics in general. It's now turned into an ugly rant about who is right about whatever and why. My Party vs. Yours. My opinion vs. Yours. This President vs. That one. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Now even skin color has been thrown in and teleprompters?? Not one of the original issues related to the original topic has been actually debated here. Debate not hate. It's impossible to have a positive and respectful discussion about politics.

 

[B_curiousme01]

Maxcok: Thumbilina? Ahahahahahahaha! Thanks for making me laugh! Whew! I literally have teary eyes over that. Good one. Actually, my avatar is Alice in Wonderland. And to finish out, I am allowed my opinions just like you are. I did not try to change your mind. I respect it as it is. I may not agree, but why can you not offer me the same courtesy? I appreciate the effort, but you really don't need to teach me anything. I can read and write (sorta). Anyways, everything I said before and hope to see you in a non political thread. I'm off to the Gallery. Although, I may have to look through the political forums to see if there is somewhere to post something political that is on my mind. I might be "emotionally sensitive", but it appears I am also a glutton for punishment.

 

[maxcok]

I responded to the title of this thread...what I found it and how it is representative of politics in general. It's now turned into an ugly rant about who is right about whatever and why. My Party vs. Yours. My opinion vs. Yours. This President vs. That one. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Now even skin color has been thrown in and teleprompters?? Not one of the original issues related to the original topic has been actually debated here. Debate not hate. It's impossible to have a positive and respectful discussion about politics.

Actually, my post to Trinity could not be more about the topic of the thread.
As was my first post in the thread, as was my first post to you.
If you don't see that, you are having a problem with comprehension.

Maxcok: Thumbilina? Ahahahahahahaha! Thanks for making me laugh! Whew! I literally have teary eyes over that. Good one. Actually, my avatar is Alice in Wonderland. And to finish out, I am allowed my opinions just like you are. I did not try to change your mind. I respect it as it is. I may not agree, but why can you not offer me the same courtesy? I appreciate the effort, but you really don't need to teach me anything. I can read and write (sorta). Anyways, everything I said before and hope to see you in a non political thread. I'm off to the Gallery. Although, I may have to look through the political forums to see if there is somewhere to post something political that is on my mind. I might be "emotionally sensitive", but it appears I am also a glutton for punishment.

Well, your avatar could easily represent Thumbelina, so I don't know why you're laughing at me, especially when I offered you a compliment, but it's okay. Actually, I love Alice, and had I looked more closely the pinafore should have been a clue. That book and 'Through the Looking Glass' are among my favorite books, and much more 'adult' than people generally realize.

I absolutely did extend you the courtesy of respecting your opinion. How do you not see that? I'm not going to repeat it for the third or fourth time. As far as 'teaching', I think 'inform' might be more apt. Personally, I make it a practice to try to learn from anyone I possibly can. But again, you are free to do as you see fit. It matters not to me. Au revoir.

p.s. If you think this thread is rough, you might want to consider very carefully before hanging out in the political forum.

 

[B_curiousme01]

I wasn't laughing at you over the question of my avatar and did not mean for you to think that. I apologize. I really found it entertaining. You made me smile and my thanks was sincere and without an ulterior motive. You are right about visiting other political forums though. I just got back from the gallery and am feeling happy. Being happy is good for me so I will take your advice on that one.

 

[maxcok]

^ Thank you, Alice. Be well, be happy, and beware the Jabberwock.

 

[Northland]

Naysayers beware, for the tea party shall rise higher than the highest ant hill and it shall have believers flocking around it more than the flocking found at Garibaldi's Lamb Coat Factory.

Seriously, the Tea Party has a chance- slim it may be; but, a chance it still is, to grow into something of greatness. All political parties began somewhere and that's just the way it is- check your history if you have doubts. No, not just the young history of the United States of (North) America; but, history going back many centuries, look at all of it and learn.


Curiosity draws people in, some are taken with the ideas and join, others, are disgusted by the values the Teapers have and rant loud and long- which of course draws media attention and gets more people interested and hence more who join. It's a vicious cycling circle of crescendoing proportions. Then again, all political actions begin somewhere and go up and down, down then up and appear stagnant at times like the growths on the floors and hanging from ceilings in caves (don't be fooled by the appearance, there is growth even there).

The Democrats have retooled over time, as have the Republicans, which has spawned Independent and Green and Libertarian parties, which while weak, have their roots growing deep and steady.

The Tea Party is learning what is appealing and what is vile to the public and are building upon that- don't be surprised as their strength grows. Don't be surprised as they add to their 'minority' base.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

The Tea Party is learning what is appealing and what is vile to the public and are building upon that- don't be surprised as their strength grows.

There's nothing appealing to the tea party movement at all. It's all a bunch of misplaced anger and paranoia, generated by corporations and the wealthy, disguised to look like civilian concern. With enough money, you can make ANYTHING seem bigger than it really is. And it's pretty apparent that these entities will spend whatever it takes to get their message across.

Don't be surprised as they add to their 'minority' base.

We won't be surprised because it isn't going to happen.
You don't win over a minority base by telling them that they're just like everyone else, then propose legislation that suggests otherwise. It also doesn't help when at every rally, cameramen have to scramble for minorities in a crowd like it's some game of "Where's Waldo". For too many decades, we have seen people of this ilk preach equality and then do everything in their power to make sure things stay more polarized. That kind of sentiment doesn't magically go away just because a bunch of people are holding up a sign calling Obama a Socialist.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Maxcok: Thumbilina? Ahahahahahahaha! Thanks for making me laugh! Whew! I literally have teary eyes over that. Good one.

If your were literally in tears from laughing at that rather dumb joke, you seriously need to lower your dosage.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Seriously, the Tea Party has a chance- slim it may be; but, a chance it still is, to grow into something of greatness. All political parties began somewhere and that's just the way it is- check your history if you have doubts. No, not just the young history of the United States of (North) America; but, history going back many centuries, look at all of it and learn.

Except there's one problem... The old white people who generally comprise the teabaggers are dying off faster than they can be replaced.

The teabagger phenomenon isn't the beginning of a new non partisan political movement, it is the death throe of the failed hyper-partisan conservative movement that was defeated in 2006 and again in 2008.

Old people don't change, they're set in their ways. This is merely their last gasp at political relevancy before they are carted off to the nursing home, and nothing more.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Except there's one problem... The old white people who generally comprise the teabaggers are dying off faster than they can be replaced.

The teabagger phenomenon isn't the beginning of a new non partisan political movement, it is the death throe of the failed hyper-partisan conservative movement that was defeated in 2006 and again in 2008.

Old people don't change, they're set in their ways. This is merely their last gasp at political relevancy before they are carted off to the nursing home, and nothing more.

18 percent of Americans identify with the teaparty. not 18% of voters 18% of Americans. they have higher than average income 56% make more than $50,000 ,they're better educated 37% are college graduates and 58% have guns at home.

The reality is that if you truly believed this all just a joke you wouldn't even waste your breath on it.