Ten most corrupt politicians for 2009

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Neil Kinnock
Patricia Hewitt
Geoff Hoon
Stephen Byers
Peter Mandelson
Neil Hamilton
Various EU peeps...

....and anyone who isn't scrupulously wary of / prepared for all the pitfalls that can trip you up. :/
 

SilverTrain

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Idiots...last I checked "Conservative" wasn't a political party.


Conservative =/= partisan.

oxford dictionaries.com definition of partisan

partisan (par·ti·san)

Pronunciation:/ˈpärtəzən/

noun

1 a strong supporter of a party, cause, or person

2 a member of an armed group formed to fight secretly against an occupying force, in particular one operating in enemy-occupied Yugoslavia, Italy, and parts of eastern Europe in World War II

adjective

prejudiced in favor of a particular cause:
newspapers have become increasingly partisan



I mean, really. As if the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are not used continuously around here (and elsewhere) as a shorthand connotation of partisanship? Come on.
 

B_VinylBoy

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The sheep are lining up on this one.

As of yet, no one has refuted any of the material presented in the list. As per protocol on this forum, bashing the source/cite is the only argument anyone can come up with.

Forget that the organization is comprised of attorneys, and the list of most corrupt in '07 and '08 included a number of republicans.

Sorry folks, facts is facts.

The misdirection, scandals, hoodwinking and outright law-breaking have been researched, identified and substantiated by a credible source.

So keep attacking the OP and attacking the source, but completely ignore the material and the topic.:rolleyes: Everybody is use to it.

The sad thing is, sweetie, is that NOBODY is ignoring the content. It doesn't matter that their list of corrupt politicians included some Republicans in previous years, or the fact that a few Republicans were included on the current one (yes, I did see that already). But to show you just how deep this goes (and to bring to light things that YOU don't even know about that site), let me show you how it's pretty easy to demonstrate the lack of nonpartisanship this "Judicial Watch" site really has. Now, pay attention and let this "blind liberal" destroy your credibility even more.

1. The site was founded by a person named Larry Klayman in 1994. If you don't know who that is, he ran for the United States Senate in Florida but lost in the Republican primary. Larry Klayman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. The Judicial Watch attained notoriety through the initiation of 18 civil lawsuits against the Clinton Administration, and subsequently, an unsuccessful lawsuit against Vice-President Dick Cheney in order to obtain information about the White House's energy task force (which just happened to be a group created by George W. Bush. Kinda ironic knowing all that we know now that back then they couldn't find a thing wrong with Cheney).

3. The organization received financial support from prominent Clinton critics, including $7.74 million from conservative billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife. Scaife is known for his financial support of conservative and right-wing public policy organizations over the past two decades. He has provided support for conservative and libertarian causes in the U.S., mostly through the private, nonprofit foundations he controls: the Sarah Scaife Foundation, Carthage Foundation, and Allegheny Foundation, and until 2001, the Scaife Family Foundation. Scaife also helped fund the Arkansas Project, which ultimately led to the impeachment proceedings of President Bill Clinton. Richard Mellon Scaife - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4. And I'm sure you remember what the Arkansas Project was, right? If you need a reminder, it was a series of investigations (mostly funded by businessman Richard Mellon Scaife) that were initiated with the intent of damaging and ending the presidency of Bill Clinton regarding a possible sexual harassment of an Arkansas state employee Scaife spent nearly $2 million on this anti-Clinton project.

5. Judicial Watch is also heavily funded by the John M. Olin Foundation, Inc, a grant making organization that has disbursed over $370 million in funding, primarily to conservative think tanks, media outlets, and law programs at influential universities. John M. Olin Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That includes, but is not limited to, the following "think tanks": American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, Center for Equal Opportunity, Center for Individual Rights, Eagle Forum, Free Congress Foundation, Heritage Foundation, Hoover Institution at Stanford University, Hudson Institute, Manhattan Institute for Public Policy Research, National Association of Scholars, Palmer R. Chitester Fund, Philanthropy Roundtable.

And every time I see universities and academic organizations involved, I can't help but sense a real problem. So, I investigated some of the schools and individuals that may have benefitted from the John M. Olin Foundation's generous contributions. It eventually lead me to a person by the name of Heather Mac Donald, a John M. Olin fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor to City Journal who canvassed a range of topics including homeland security, immigration, policing and "racial" profiling, homelessness and homeless advocacy, educational policy, the New York courts, and business improvement districts. She also wrote a notorious book called Are Cops Racists which is supposed to investigate the workings of the police and downplays the controversy of racial profiling. It also tries to explain how the anti-profiling lobbies are supposedly harmful to black Americans. Quoted from her book, as listed in a review from Amazon: "The anti-profiling crusade thrives on an ignorance of policing and a willful blindness to the demographics of crime." Hmmmmmmm... where did I see some of this bullshit before? :rolleyes:


But I digress, of course...
How about we look at some of the more recent actions of the Judicial Watch:

• Suing the town of Herndon, Virginia to stop a "day laborer" program on the grounds that it may provide employment for illegal aliens.

• Suing the U.S. Senate to disallow the filibuster in their debates over confirmation of judicial nominees, coinciding with proposed efforts by Republican Senate leaders to internally do the same thing.

• Initiating a request to the Naval Inspector General for an investigation into the "legitimacy and propriety" of the awards John Kerry received for his service in Vietnam.

• Criticizing the U.S. Navy for securing a public relations firm to encourage Puerto Ricans to vote to keep a Naval testing range at Vieques, Puerto Rico.

• Investigating fund-raising activities relating to the 1996 United States campaign finance controversy. Otherwise known as "Chinagate".

• Rejecting the formal judgement of innocence of David Rosen, who served as campaign finance director for Democrat Hillary Clinton's campaign for the U.S. Senate and had been indicted for filing false reports.

• Condemning as murder the death of Terri Schiavo, who lived for 15 years in a diagnosed persistent vegetative state and whose husband wished to allow to die. Her parents wished that she be kept on life support, and were joined in their pursuits by prominent Republicans.

• Filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Secret Service for denying Judicial Watch’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for access to Obama White House visitor logs from January 20 to August 10, 2009.


Unlike you, a conservative leaning instigator who purposely omits selective words in statements and adheres to a "look, they got some Republicans too" mentality in order to sneakily suggest that a source is supposed to be "unbiased", I DO MY DAMN RESEARCH. I stand by my statement that your so-called source is FAR from being nonpartisan. All one has to do is follow the money trail and you can ALWAYS find the real motives of people.

Now please, star... get to work counterpointing these findings. That's if you even got a pair. I know the truth hurts. :rolleyes:
 
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Qua

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Again, they may sponsor a Tea Party convention while still being non partisan. Why? Because, in spirit if not in practice, the Tea Party is an ideological movement. It may be only one step removed from partisan, but that's almost always the case with these supposed "non partisan" groups.

And apologies for the idiot comment, but Vinyl posted a dictionary definition under which Judicial Watch fit the notion of non partisan.

It's like "aha! Gotcha! A conservative group claiming to be non partisan!" Well, yeah...there are other conservative parties and groups out there than the Republicans.


Though my belief that the Reps and Dems are really one and the same doesn't really give much credence to their claim on non-partisanship, I will admit.

Honestly, in this day and age non-partisan really just means a lack of official endorsements, and most importantly, a lack of funding from or to a party. Which isn't insignificant.
 

Pitbull

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This thread went from a posting of a "Top Ten List" or corrupt politicians to criticism of Judicial Watch with claims of bias.

Anyone care to comment on the list itself?

Anyone care to suggest those who should have made the list and why they are more deserving?

I did not think hard.
Guessed who might be there
Came up with Pelosi and Ensign
Thought Blagojevich would be on it - but I guess he doesn't qualify as "Washington"
Would not have thought of Holder and Geithner because I don't think of the Cabinet as a political body since they are not running for anything.
I think Obama is deserving of this "honor" (unlike his Noble Peace Prize) but I thought he would be cut slack. Guess I misjudged.

This should just be a discussion topic.
Kind of like "Who are the 10 best NFL Quarterbacks of All Time"
If someone gets mentioned - probably a great QB but the lists will differ.

So if someone is on this list - the possess some pretty good corruption credentials.
I know that some highly partisan folks do not wish to admit their heroes might actually be corrupt.
 
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...
As of yet, no one has refuted any of the material presented in the list. As per protocol on this forum, bashing the source/cite is the only argument anyone can come up with.

Just take a look at some of the points on Obama:

Consider just a few Obama administration "lowlights" from year one: Even before President Obama was sworn into office, he was interviewed by the FBI for a criminal investigation of former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich's scheme to sell the President's former Senate seat to the highest bidder.
So the FBI talked with him about a scheme that apparently he had nothing to with. Did anything more turn up? How is this a low point for him?

President Obama has installed a record number of "czars" in positions of power.
from Czar Search | FactCheck.org:
Q: Does Obama have an unprecedented number of "czars"?
A:"Czar" is media lingo, not an official title. But our research shows that George Bush’s administration had more "czars" than the Obama administration.
Under the President's bailout schemes, the federal government continues to appropriate or control — through fiat and threats — large sectors of the private economy ... Government-run healthcare and car companies, White House coercion, uninvestigated ACORN corruption
...attacks on conservative media and the private sector, unprecedented and dangerous new rights for terrorists...
Really? Still beating these dead horses?

There may be some wheat there, but a cursory glance shows way too much chaff for this to be worth spending any more time on.
 

B_talltpaguy

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This thread was all well and good with the discussion, then this sort of thing gets posted. Again, this is the kind of thing the mods are encouraging the membership to cease.

Remember - it is possible to disagree with things without the need for resorting to statements such as the above.
If members are no longer allowed to say words like 'horseshit', then I haven't seen the rule. Can you point me in the right direction please?

Furthermore, if members are permitted to troll this forum with any manner of source, no matter how biased, and will be protected by the mods in doing so, then that's A-OK with me... I've got all kinds of stuff I can post.

It's good to know that when that material is posted and pisses off a bunch of people, I won't be getting in trouble, but the people who object to it will.
 

flame boy

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If members are no longer allowed to say words like 'horseshit', then I haven't seen the rule. Can you point me in the right direction please?

Furthermore, if members are permitted to troll this forum with any manner of source, no matter how biased, and will be protected by the mods in doing so, then that's A-OK with me... I've got all kinds of stuff I can post.

It's good to know that when that material is posted and pisses off a bunch of people, I won't be getting in trouble, but the people who object to it will.

You can claim it's because of that, if you wish, but the reason your post was singled out was to convey the point that posts like that (ie they add zero to the discussion) are something we are interesting in curbing. The simple fact was your post did nothing but attempt to "bait" another member, you added nothing to the discussion. Simple.

The source may be from a "conservative" point of view, but a source was provided and while it may not be a site we all wish to visit it was still valid for the discussion in hand (considering they produced the list).

The mods are not protecting anyone. I have no interest in the subject matter of the thread, merely the responses that are provided by our members. You can by all means disagree - but disagree like adults. Is there an echo in here?
 

B_talltpaguy

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^Fair enough.

When people complain about my threads, I'll be sure to report them and will expect just as vigorous protection of my "right" to post openly biased material here that incites discord among the forum's participants.
 

B_VinylBoy

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This thread went from a posting of a "Top Ten List" or corrupt politicians to criticism of Judicial Watch with claims of bias.

Anyone care to comment on the list itself?

Anyone care to suggest those who should have made the list and why they are more deserving?

I did not think hard.
Guessed who might be there
Came up with Pelosi and Ensign
Thought Blagojevich would be on it - but I guess he doesn't qualify as "Washington"
Would not have thought of Holder and Geithner because I don't think of the Cabinet as a political body since they are not running for anything.
I think Obama is deserving of this "honor" (unlike his Noble Peace Prize) but I thought he would be cut slack. Guess I misjudged.

This should just be a discussion topic.
Kind of like "Who are the 10 best NFL Quarterbacks of All Time"
If someone gets mentioned - probably a great QB but the lists will differ.

So if someone is on this list - the possess some pretty good corruption credentials.
I know that some highly partisan folks do not wish to admit their heroes might actually be corrupt.

Nobody is suggesting that the list doesn't feature politicians who may be corrupt. The question is whether or not they are the MOST corrupt, and given Judicial Watch's past ties & connections there is reason to doubt whether or not the list is accurate. With this assessment, along with the responses given by other forum members, if you can't draw the conclusion that most people believe that the list is somehow biased then nobody can help you.

It's more than apparent that Judicial Watch demonstrates more alliances with Conservative/Right-Winged politics which goes against the claims of nonpartisanship. We could also say the same if they were more loyal to more Liberal/Left-Winged political matters as well. Responses on this board are not only generated based on party affiliation or party lines, regardless if that's the only way you allowed yourself to view them.

And please... don't use the word partisan unless you know what it means. :rolleyes:
 
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D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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From the "About Page" of the site you just sourced:
Judicial Watch, Inc., a conservative, non-partisan educational foundation, promotes transparency, accountability and integrity in government, politics and the law. Through its educational endeavors, Judicial Watch advocates high standards of ethics and morality in our nation's public life and seeks to ensure that political and judicial officials do not abuse the powers entrusted to them by the American people. Judicial Watch fulfills its educational mission through litigation, investigations, and public outreach.
About Us | Judicial Watch

Nice try, star... if a site was "non-partisan" it wouldn't have even mentioned that it was Conservative OR Liberal beforehand. Funny how it didn't even take one sentence for the creators of the site to contradict themselves, eh? :rolleyes:


So omniscient one why don't you give us your top ten? Of course I'm sure you'll be non-partisan.:rolleyes:
 

B_talltpaguy

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So omniscient one why don't you give us your top ten? Of course I'm sure you'll be non-partisan.:rolleyes:
Why would he be non-partisan? This thread clearly isn't non-partisan, and the mods just came in and said we can call anyone we want corrupt, just so long as we provide a link.
 

B_VinylBoy

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So omniscient one why don't you give us your top ten? Of course I'm sure you'll be non-partisan.:rolleyes:

No. :rolleyes:
I already did enough research to prove that the site sourced in the OP's claim should be approached with heavy scrutiny. Grant it, I could make a list that is very non-partisan. If the topic is corrupt politicians, I can easily come up with fifty Democrats and fifty Republicans to demonstrate. However, since I'm not on the clock and I don't like you, I will not even consider trying to provide additional research just to satisfy you. Especially when you're just another fool who looks at people in binary and blatantly ignore the fact that many have already made nonpartisan comments including myself.
 

maxcok

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I fail to see how calling a source into question is off topic or not adding to the discussion,

particularly when said source is the entire basis for the discussion as presented by the OP.
 

D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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No. :rolleyes:
I already did enough research to prove that the site sourced in the OP's claim should be approached with heavy scrutiny. Grant it, I could make a list that is very non-partisan. If the topic is corrupt politicians, I can easily come up with fifty Democrats and fifty Republicans to demonstrate. However, since I'm not on the clock and I don't like you, I will not even consider trying to provide additional research just to satisfy you. Especially when you're just another fool who looks at people in binary and blatantly ignore the fact that many have already made nonpartisan comments including myself.




Oh I agree Star Investor and others have brought up some great some great topics. On the other hand the only thing i've seen you post are insults hatred to anyone who oppose your beliefs. Your just a pathetic angry outcast looking for some redemption. By the way I am heart broken to learn that you don't like me. I'm crushed. How can I possibly go on living?:frown1: "sniff"
 

D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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Why would he be non-partisan? This thread clearly isn't non-partisan, and the mods just came in and said we can call anyone we want corrupt, just so long as we provide a link.


What's the topic: Ten Most corupt politicians for 2009. You don't discredit the list by arguing if the creator of the list is partisan or non partisan. if you disagree or have someone that should be on the list" backed with evidence of course" then you choose your top 10. Then you debate who is worse based on facts regardless of their party affiliation. That's how you have an inteligent discussion. Maybe folks on both sides mught learn something. But of course you wouldn't understand that. This isn't a politics board it's love the libereral or go to hell board. Man up for once in your life. Theres a lot of dicks on this site but I haven't seen many with any balls.
 

B_talltpaguy

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What's the topic: Ten Most corupt politicians for 2009. You don't discredit the list by arguing if the creator of the list is partisan or non partisan.
'most corrupt' is clearly a subjective determination. Thus, the 'qualifications' and 'motives' of the source to make such a determination is most certainly eligible for debate.

Then you debate who is worse based on facts regardless of their party affiliation.
Kinda hard to do when the discussion itself is rigged to strongly favor a certain viewpoint right off the bat.

Just sayin'.


Speaking of 'balls', I don't see any rightwingers touching the list of disgraced conservatives (and mostly prosecuted) I posted. Nor do I see anyone commenting on the list of conservatives whose political careers ended in disgrace in 2009 when they were busted in a variety of sex scandals.

But then again, that makes sense since I didn't post anything subjective or controversial, just the actual FACTS... That's the beauty of actual FACTS, they can't be substantively rebutted. Isn't it nice how that works?
 
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