Terri Schiavo Passes on

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Barbi_Queue, Mar 31, 2005.

  1. D_Barbi_Queue

    D_Barbi_Queue Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    1
  2. mindseye

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you for sharing the news. I believed back in 1998, and still do, that Michael Schiavo was doing the right thing -- and I've argued as much on here. I also believe, though, that the Schindler's desire to save their daughter was sincere, and the anguish that they're feeling now is legitimate. I disagreed with their tactics, but I offer the Schindler family my consolation in their grief.
     
  3. D_Barbi_Queue

    D_Barbi_Queue Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    1
    I agree with you, ME. I just hate that it had to involve any suffering for her. We let people on death row pass with more comfort, it's a shame we couldn't do the same for her. I know that's the way I'd want it if it were me.
     
  4. Freddie53

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The South, USA
    i'm no expert, but if she were in a true vegatative state, then she felt no suffering. I realize that has been under question by her parents.

    So I pray that she did not feel any discomfort at all since all of this begin some 15 years ago.

    Unfortunately death does provide pain for some people. It is not death that I am scared of. It is the process that I might have to go through that is scary.

    My fear from all of this was that while living she was suffering great mental anquish in the state that she was in. And no one knows for sure the answer to that.

    We do know that she had a believe that she would be going to heaven. I pray that this will give her devout parents comfort in knowing she is in the hands of a loving God now.

    There were no winners today except Terri. Regardless how you felt about the whole saga that went on for years, if you believe in a merciful God, then you believe Terri is now free of pain and is living a life that is perfect in the eyes of God.

    May there be peace now for all of her family on both sides.
     
  5. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    NelsonMuntz84:
    Thank you for sharing the news. I believed back in 1998, and still do, that Michael Schiavo was doing the right thing -- and I've argued as much on here. I also believe, though, that the Schindler's desire to save their daughter was sincere, and the anguish that they're feeling now is legitimate. I disagreed with their tactics, but I offer the Schindler family my consolation in their grief.
    [post=295553]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]

    I can see both sides of it, but I think him not allowing her parents to bury her is shocking, its just self serving and he could show a bit of warmth towards them now, he has his family and kids, he should give them something.
     
  6. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    gamma_phi: I was riding the fence too, seeing both sides of the story, but now that she's passed on, I hope everyone can return to their regularly scheduled programs. I hate that someone's life/death became such a huge political fiasco that only really hurt Terri in the end. I honestly believe that the courts should NEVER have intervened, that Jeb Bush should NEVER have intervened. But now I hope she has peace and the Schindlers and Mr. Schiavo can now go on with their lives.
     
  7. Dr Rock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    I cannot believe this silly shit can make national headlines. the sheer stupidity on display in the media surrounding this is almost physically painful to witness.
     
  8. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah, mindseye was right: It's like the dead parrot sketch. I mean, who did the Schindlers use? A cardiologist who diagnosed her from video. Thing is, the heart ain't the brain. I'd cry, but I'd have to put a condom on my face.
     
  9. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    NelsonMuntz84:
    I can understand all that, and I lean towards the idea of letting her slip away, but her Husband comes across as a complete arse, and thats on British tv, not Foxnews or some other right wing station.

    Its amazing how he had a conversation in which she said what she wanted, yet the fact she was a practicing Catholic seems to be okay to avoid when it comes her funeral, To scatter her ashes in HIS home state and not give her a catholic funeral says everything about him.

    Its just so sad its became the circus it did.
     
  10. mindseye

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    In his defense, Michael Schiavo petitioned the court to remove the feeding tube in May of 1998. The parents drew this case out for seven years. I'd be a little testy after that long, too -- wouldn't you?
     
  11. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    I was sad and uncomfortable with just about every aspect of this whole affair.

    SG
     
  12. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    NelsonMuntz84:
    In his defense, Michael Schiavo petitioned the court to remove the feeding tube in May of 1998. The parents drew this case out for seven years. I'd be a little testy after that long, too -- wouldn't you?
    [post=295742]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]


    The funeral debacle will undo any crediablity he has left though, this will confirm to many that he is self serving. No offense and this might sound really cold towards him, but after he buries his ashes, will he go visit this grave ? will he and his new partner be buried there ? the answer to both is probably no. If I could recommend one thing to him, it would be to give her to her family, and let them bury her. I think to bury her in a place her family would have difficulty visiting is pretty low.

    After all one aspect of her believes as the court saw it (dying if being in this situation) washeld up, so why then is she's not to get the funeral she would have wished for ? I fail to see how any Court was able to pick and choose between the 2.

    I also think this is has been a debacle from start to finish, and as much as I would have opted to let her go, if I would have been her family I wouldn't have went down without a fight either. The American media have come across as the vultures they are, and the degree of point scoring between the so called left and right wing in America has reached a frightening level.

    The American states will need to come up with a better system than this to let people die, starving someone to death for 14 days isn't the way to go.
     
  13. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    You know, I had a cat that I had to made the hard decision to have put to sleep. When it happened, my daughter and I got to take him into a private room, hold him, pet him, say our good-byes, and comfort him as the nurse gave him the shot that put him to sleep and took his life. It was horribly sad, but there was a peacefulness and feeling of family given the atrociousness of the situation. If we can give that kind of send-away to a cat, why must we starve a human being? We have become a nation of disgusting individuals led by the perverse, our morals are just media snippets, we understand and care about nothing but ourselves. This whole thing made me sick, and if I ever Hated bush, it sure got worse after this.

    By the way, people get arrested all the time for starving their animals. WTF is wrong with us?
     
  14. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah, the whole Terri Schiavo affair is just one more exhibit in case against corporate media. And the whole time I was thinking "No, you were playing God 15 years ago when you put that feeding tube in! She would've been suffering for 15 years, had that part of her brain not turned to mush."

    I think it's one of the big differences between Indians and non-Indians. We don't suffer from delusions of immortality, or the delusion that immortality would somehow be a Good Thing.
     
  15. Dr Rock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    what's even more perverse is the way the two factions have been flinging moral absolutes at each other (reinforced by reference to "god", as usual). sorry, the only "god" in this equation is the guy who invented the feeding tube and the biomonitor. without those - and bear in mind we've only had them for about 30 years - anyone whose cerebral cortex was destroyed by trauma damage would obviously starve to death anyway. the human brain cannot recover from an injury of that nature, period. brain tissue does not regenerate, ever.

    this is not a case of "she's trapped inside" or "she's in a coma"; it's a case of the most critical parts of her brain having been turned to soup. that is a stark medical fact; morals don't even come into it. the MORAL question would be whether to let the victim starve to death slowly, or whether to put them out of their misery quickly and humanely.

    it amuses me to observe that those who claim belief in a compassionate, afterlife-providing god are seemingly those most desperate to maintain such a hideous parody of life at all costs. what exactly is it they're so afraid of? one can't help but wonder if their conviction in absolute moral imperatives is strong enough that they'd want the same abominations practised on their bodies should they suffer similar injuries. I know that if anything like that happened to me, anyone with any claim to my friendship or care would shove a gun muzzle up my nose instead of a feeding tube.
     
  16. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hell, before the advent of some form of dentistry, your life expectancy would be much shorter than it is today; simple understanding of thermodynamics requires as much.

    People forget the very nature of life. For something to live, something else must die. Any other view is just primitive naivete.
     
  17. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    It is interesting in some ways how much Eastern Indian and Native American culture have in common. Working in harmony with the general nature of things makes a lot more sense than butting heads with it constantly. Death is apparent and obvious, so why do Americans shrink in fear of it? From living in a world that is over-insulated, oversimplified, and far more two dimensional than reality will allow. Good and evil are not moral absolutes, and no person can be described as anything but a combination of varying degrees of both. People die, more will be born, these passages help mark social timelines but none of us are exempt from participation.
     
  18. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    NelsonMuntz84:
    The saddest thing about it all is that people will not learn the lesson's from this case and put a clear structure in place so a person who tragically finds themselves like this can slip away without being starved for 14 days or however long it takes, but can die with dignity not hooked up to machine's for 10-20 etc years.

    Sadly, we all know what will happen, it will be forgotten about for a while, and come the next elections, one group or both will try use it for political end.

    People aren't taught to accept things in western society in general, watch the evening news, fear is used to scare the shit out of people and control them.
     
  19. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    Yes, you are absolutely right. We, as a society, will take nothing away from this experience. I guess that's what upsets me most of all, our collective self-imposed ignorance. I have been going around with a ringing in my ears like someone cracked me in the head with an iron skillet since last year's election(?). The gravity and magnitude of the state of our country had been somewhat obscured for me during the bliss years of the early and middle 90's. I am understanding more and more what we're dealing with and I am having a hard time putting much faith in our ability, or desire, to improve. In the end, when I run out of venom, I will likely become a political agnostic.

    Terry Schiavo's life (on support) and death were tragic, I can only wish healing for her whole family, I am only sorry it went anywhere near this far to begin with. Her husband was a victim too, whether you like him or not, none of us would like to walk in his shoes.
     
  20. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    doubtless_mouse: I was raised by a very wise women, who from the time we were old enough to understand, explained that one day she would die. She explained to us that the pain that we would someday feel would be based on our loss not hers. She told us that when her time came, we were to throw a great big party and remember her life not her death. I attribute this great mentality of hers to the fact that she is not American but was instead born and raised in Ireland. She didn't come to the states until she was her late twenties. Likewise I think the generation she belinged to (she was born in Ireland in 1936) has lot to do with it as well.

    Luckily my mother is still with us (and will hopefully be for some time to come). My oldest brother and I (I am the yougest of four siblings but the most mature of the four as well) have had numerous arguments on what will happen when mom passes (again she is in fine health but these are things you should talk about when you are in fine health not as you lie at deaths door). I have explained to him that we will carry out her wished to the letter irrigardless of what his spiritual beliefs are and that if, "I had to beat him to bloody pulp to make him understand'" then I would. (direct quote from a discussion we had when he told me he would never let me cremate mom even though it is what she wants). (Sometimes it is nice to be the only 6'0" tall 220 lbs martial artist in the family) }(

    I am unsure about other cultures but I think in the US, our fear of death is tied to the idea that we are something other than mortal, so when something shows us that Americans are mortal then it messes us up something fierce. We, for some weird reason, don't see ourselves like the rest of the world sees themselves. They have a better grip on their mortality and because of this are much better prepared to deal with death than we are. We are constantly trying to prolong life even though the quality of life may be worse. Americans seem to think living a low quality life (i.e. on a machine) is better then death. I have explained to my wife that I do never want to be dependent on a machine to live and if and when the time comes and the doctors hook me up she is to pull the plug and let me go. While being alone after the death of a spouse is hard, I think it would be much worse for her to have to take care of me if I were in a state like Terri's but in reality she would be alone anyway. At least once I have passed on, she can begin to live her life again (something that is very hard to do when you are taking care of someone in that kind of state).

    Ramblings from the Mouse.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted