Terror in berlin,germany

[Chrysippus]

What do you mean by "buttboy"?

Oh, sorry, I meant lapdog.

 

[Drifterwood]

There are several issues with Frau Merkel's policy.

First, there was an alternative policy of funding and helping to run high quality camps for refugees in neighbouring countries. One of the main points of these was that people could return at some point. The fact now is that Syria is so depleted of its people and particularly of its middle class that reconstruction will be nigh on impossible.

Secondly the EU had agreed strategies and protocols for dealing with refugees. These totally collapsed and could not manage after Merkel's open invitation. Therefore there was no control as to who came in. You could throw your passport away and say you were from Aleppo.

Finally, though probably not last, consider if the pilots of the 9.11 attacks had been invited into the country by Mr. Bush.

 

[deleted37010]

consider if the pilots of the 9.11 attacks had been invited into the country by Mr. Bush.

they didn't fucking sneak in......

The first hijackers to arrive in the United States were Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, who settled in San Diego County, California in January 2000. They were followed by three hijacker-pilots, Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, and Ziad Jarrah in mid-2000 to undertake flight training in south Florida. The fourth hijacker-pilot, Hani Hanjour, arrived in San Diego in December 2000. The rest of the "muscle hijackers" arrived in early and mid-2001.

 

[Drifterwood]

they didn't fucking sneak in......

The first hijackers to arrive in the United States were Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, who settled in San Diego County, California in January 2000. They were followed by three hijacker-pilots, Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, and Ziad Jarrah in mid-2000 to undertake flight training in south Florida. The fourth hijacker-pilot, Hani Hanjour, arrived in San Diego in December 2000. The rest of the "muscle hijackers" arrived in early and mid-2001.

I'm not sure how your rant relates to my point.

 

[Boobalaa]

There are several issues with Frau Merkel's policy.

First, there was an alternative policy of funding and helping to run high quality camps for refugees in neighbouring countries. One of the main points of these was that people could return at some point. The fact now is that Syria is so depleted of its people and particularly of its middle class that reconstruction will be nigh on impossible.

Secondly the EU had agreed strategies and protocols for dealing with refugees. These totally collapsed and could not manage after Merkel's open invitation. Therefore there was no control as to who came in. You could throw your passport away and say you were from Aleppo.

Finally, though probably not last, consider if the pilots of the 9.11 attacks had been invited into the country by Mr. Bush.

WHO BENEFITS?

 

[southeastone]

I really resent the xenophobic resentment of southeastone when he writes 'In my part of the UK we have schools where 90+% of children are not UK born and English is not the first language by a long way, sarcasm is all we have left fella, we are paying our debt the hard way.' .

To show your indignation and compare your Greek families incoming to the US with what is happening now is naive at best, how many of your family wanted to kill their host?

If your kids/grandkids/nephews/nieces whatever were in this position of being left sitting at the back of the class to amuse themselves while the teachers try to cope with MOST of the class not being able to understand English your outrage would be called American patriotism, mine is apparently called xenophobic, you are lucky in the US that your country and population is so vast that numbers of people can be absorbed without the massive changes that it imposes on small countries like ours, the previous UK government allowed the open door immigration now being given by Merkel and we have now found that the countries infrastructure cannot cope, Brexit was not just a whim or protest vote it was a result of people knowing they have lost control and a lot of immigrants and their families voted out as well.

The aggression felt by a lot of the Arab world towards the west (much of it justified) combined with the Muslim ethos to convert the world to islam is changing Europe beyond the point of no return, instances like this terrible one in Germany will continue.

 

[deleted37010]

I'm not sure how your rant relates to my point.

apologies... they came in with permission... all were here legally

Lawmakers on both sides of the immigration debate have falsely claimed that “some” or “all” of the 9/11 hijackers were in the U.S. on student visas. Only one of the 19 hijackers came to the U.S. on a student visa. The rest arrived here on tourist or business visas.
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/05/911-hijackers-and-student-visas/

 

[Chrysippus]

how many of your family wanted to kill their host?

How many want to kill their British hosts? Do you have any proof of how you present (without any kind of documentation) your immigrant population as being homicidal towards Britons? Or is just this just an anecdote based on how you think these people feel?

 

[798686]

One of the main points of these was that people could return at some point. The fact now is that Syria is so depleted of its people and particularly of its middle class that reconstruction will be nigh on impossible.

I wonder if this is justification of US/UK's previous policy of interventionism? Ie: 'look what happens when we heed international opinion, stay on the sidelines and let Putin/Assad do their worst'.

On the other hand - I guess it could be even worse if we'd been fighting a proxy war against Russia?

*thinks*

 

[Klingsor]

To show your indignation and compare your Greek families incoming to the US with what is happening now is naive at best, how many of your family wanted to kill their host?

How many of today's refugees do you think want to kill their host?

 

[Expozr]

I am half German so I feel especially bonded to such a beautiful country and people. My heart goes out to all the families of the dead and injured. It is so pointless. My grown up Christmas list is that "no more lives torn apart, that wars would never start and time will heal all hearts.". OK, I'm kind of a sap but I feel this pain so profoundly.

 

[deleted37010]

I am half German so I feel especially bonded to such a beautiful country and people. My heart goes out to all the families of the dead and injured. It is so pointless. My grown up Christmas list is that "no more lives torn apart, that wars would never start and time will heal all hearts.". OK, I'm kind of a sap but I feel this pain so profoundly.

JFK's Famous Words—"Ich Bin Ein Berliner"—Are Trending After the German Christmas Market Attack
His quote inspires solidarity in the wake of terrorism.
http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/news/a9025/ich-bin-ein-berliner-jfk/

 

[Boobalaa]

To show your indignation and compare your Greek families incoming to the US with what is happening now is naive at best, how many of your family wanted to kill their host?

If your kids/grandkids/nephews/nieces whatever were in this position of being left sitting at the back of the class to amuse themselves while the teachers try to cope with MOST of the class not being able to understand English your outrage would be called American patriotism, mine is apparently called xenophobic, you are lucky in the US that your country and population is so vast that numbers of people can be absorbed without the massive changes that it imposes on small countries like ours, the previous UK government allowed the open door immigration now being given by Merkel and we have now found that the countries infrastructure cannot cope, Brexit was not just a whim or protest vote it was a result of people knowing they have lost control and a lot of immigrants and their families voted out as well.

The aggression felt by a lot of the Arab world towards the west (much of it justified) combined with the Muslim ethos to convert the world to islam is changing Europe beyond the point of no return, instances like this terrible one in Germany will continue.

Just because there used to be a British Empire, doesn't mean Muslims want a Muslim Empire..Your Cultural Evolution has bred into you that fear of retribution..the "chickens are coming home to roost" ..you are experiencing the "harvest of empire"..
oh, but don't worry, the USA is catching up..As long as they keep building multimillion dollar battleships and billion dollar bombers and jets and submarines to be used against the peoples of Africa and the Middle East, we'll turn out just like you, only a bigger island

 

[deleted37010]

the "chickens are coming home to roost"

i hear boobalaa channeling malcolm x... or... rev dr jeremiah wright.... muslim and christian (black) liberation theology united behind this idea...

 

[Boobalaa]

i hear boobalaa channeling malcolm x... or... rev dr jeremiah wright.... muslim and christian (black) liberation theology united behind this idea...

And "Harvest of Empire" is from Juan Gonzalez

 

[Jason]

How many of today's refugees do you think want to kill their host?

The UK has the experience of IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland.

The political party Sinn Fein today polls around 25% of the vote. Back in the Troubles (when the IRA was active) it polled around 20%. Today Sinn Fein has renounced its support for terrorism, but it was for years the political wing of IRA. For a time the BBC called them Sinn Fein IRA, and for a time the BBC had a ban on broadcasting the voice of Sinn Fein politicians because this was seen as giving support to terrorism. In Northern Ireland 20-25% of the population vote for a party which had links with terrorism.

The Nationalist community in Northern Ireland is around 45%. It's pretty much unthinkable for a Unionist to vote Sinn Fein. In effect 40-50% of the Nationalist community voted during the Troubles for a party linked with terrorism. In any Nationalist neighbourhood around half of people would turn a blind eye to known IRA members and would not report them to the police. The number of active IRA members is hard to gauge. It was comprised almost entirely of men, and mostly young men. However in the order of 1% of the male Nationalist community is in the right ball-park.

The ONLY solution has been for the UK to conceded a lot of the demands of the terrorists. We now have Sinn Fein in power-sharing government in NI, so people who were once supporting the terrorists (and may actually have been the terrorist murderers) are now in government.

Within the context of refugees from (say) Syria I suggest around half would turn a blind eye to a terrorist in the midst. The number of potential terrorists could easily be around 1% of young men, if the evidence of IRA is any sort of guide. If this is correct the miracle is that there have not been far more terror attacks. I suppose only a small proportion of the 1% would be suicide attackers. (The IRA tried not to get killed.)

 

[Boobalaa]

There were already "terrorist murderers" in the government before they let Sinn Fein in, they were called "Patriots"

 

[deleted37010]

The UK has the experience of IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland.

The political party Sinn Fein today polls around 25% of the vote. Back in the Troubles (when the IRA was active) it polled around 20%. Today Sinn Fein has renounced its support for terrorism, but it was for years the political wing of IRA. For a time the BBC called them Sinn Fein IRA, and for a time the BBC had a ban on broadcasting the voice of Sinn Fein politicians because this was seen as giving support to terrorism. In Northern Ireland 20-25% of the population vote for a party which had links with terrorism.

The Nationalist community in Northern Ireland is around 45%. It's pretty much unthinkable for a Unionist to vote Sinn Fein. In effect 40-50% of the Nationalist community voted during the Troubles for a party linked with terrorism. In any Nationalist neighbourhood around half of people would turn a blind eye to known IRA members and would not report them to the police. The number of active IRA members is hard to gauge. It was comprised almost entirely of men, and mostly young men. However in the order of 1% of the male Nationalist community is in the right ball-park.

The ONLY solution has been for the UK to conceded a lot of the demands of the terrorists. We now have Sinn Fein in power-sharing government in NI, so people who were once supporting the terrorists (and may actually have been the terrorist murderers) are now in government.

Within the context of refugees from (say) Syria I suggest around half would turn a blind eye to a terrorist in the midst. The number of potential terrorists could easily be around 1% of young men, if the evidence of IRA is any sort of guide. If this is correct the miracle is that there have not been far more terror attacks. I suppose only a small proportion of the 1% would be suicide attackers. (The IRA tried not to get killed.)

well done...

 

[Klingsor]

The UK has the experience of IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland.

The political party Sinn Fein today polls around 25% of the vote. Back in the Troubles (when the IRA was active) it polled around 20%. Today Sinn Fein has renounced its support for terrorism, but it was for years the political wing of IRA. For a time the BBC called them Sinn Fein IRA, and for a time the BBC had a ban on broadcasting the voice of Sinn Fein politicians because this was seen as giving support to terrorism. In Northern Ireland 20-25% of the population vote for a party which had links with terrorism.

The Nationalist community in Northern Ireland is around 45%. It's pretty much unthinkable for a Unionist to vote Sinn Fein. In effect 40-50% of the Nationalist community voted during the Troubles for a party linked with terrorism. In any Nationalist neighbourhood around half of people would turn a blind eye to known IRA members and would not report them to the police. The number of active IRA members is hard to gauge. It was comprised almost entirely of men, and mostly young men. However in the order of 1% of the male Nationalist community is in the right ball-park.

The ONLY solution has been for the UK to conceded a lot of the demands of the terrorists. We now have Sinn Fein in power-sharing government in NI, so people who were once supporting the terrorists (and may actually have been the terrorist murderers) are now in government.

Within the context of refugees from (say) Syria I suggest around half would turn a blind eye to a terrorist in the midst. The number of potential terrorists could easily be around 1% of young men, if the evidence of IRA is any sort of guide. If this is correct the miracle is that there have not been far more terror attacks. I suppose only a small proportion of the 1% would be suicide attackers. (The IRA tried not to get killed.)

Syrian refugees are not the equivalent of Irish Nationalists, or of any other political affiliation. Syrian refugees are just people, of any or no political leaning; their common thread is being caught in the crossfire of a brutal civil war. So while I have no way of knowing for certain, I suspect even your 1% "potential terrorist" estimate is high. In any case, can we let such fears blind is to the plight of the (at least) 99% innocents in dire need?

 

[Jason]

Syrian refugees are not the equivalent of Irish Nationalists, or of any other political affiliation. Syrian refugees are just people, of any or no political leaning; their common thread is being caught in the crossfire of a brutal civil war. So while I have no way of knowing for certain, I suspect even your 1% "potential terrorist" estimate is high. In any case, can we let such fears blind is to the plight of the (at least) 99% innocents in dire need?

I agree that there are many difficulties with the comparison. However it is a comparison, an effort to try to scope the extent of the problem. Probably there is a tendency in recent migrant communities to turn a blind eye to radicalisation of members of their community, and this is something our society needs to know about. Probably we do have to assume a percentage will be radicalised. We need to know whether this is 1%, 0.1% or 0.01%. In the case of Germany (on the basis of 1m migrants) this means 10,000, 1,000 or 100. The evidence from Northern Ireland (such as it is) is that the figure is likely to be at the top end.

Politicians (and voters) need facts and can try to respond to these facts. It may be that Germany needs a policy of encouraging migrant communities to spot and report radicalisation in their own communities. (The UK has a programme "Prevent" which encourages teachers, lecturers and health workers to spot and report radicalisation.) It may be that Germany needs to look at fostering a sense of German identity for migrants (Germany is trying; by contrast Belgium has made quite a hash of just this).

Public opinion in Germany as in France is likely to pull together with a view to finding solutions. However this sort of community spirit will have its limits. The limit is passed when the frequency of outrages is perceived to move from occasional to frequent. This is an issue around perception, not absolute number of outrages. The risk is around social cohesion. There will be a point after which the majority of German people will revolt against the migrant policy.