Terror strikes the US & UK abroad

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Notaguru2, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. Notaguru2

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  2. jason_els

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    87 victims dead, 185 wounded, 9 terrorists dead. The Oberoi Hotel attacked, hostages and dead at the Taj Mahal Hotel which is in flames, a hospital, and train station in Mumbai. Other sites attacked, gunmen shooting randomly from trucks.

    And they're targeting US and UK nationals.
     
  3. nudeyorker

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    Does anybody remember a Thanksgiving weekend where there was not some horrible f***ed up thing was not unfolding somewhere? I'm having a hard time remembering one!
     
  4. Flashy

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    shocker...islamofascist terrorists...*AGAIN*...in yet *ANOTHER* country they want to turn into their own little Islamofascist state.
     
  5. uniqueusername

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    What are these guys thinking? Don't they know Obama ISN'T President yet?
     
  6. Drifterwood

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    I am sure you understand the history of the Asian Subcontinent better than that Flash. There are extremes of religious based intolerance on both sides.

    This situation is not about a desire to create an Islamic State. It is another effectively suicidal mission against symbols of the West and people from the UK and the US. Mumbai is the commercial and financial capital of India.

    In the meantime, my thoughts are with the victims and those still experiencing what must be a terrifying ordeal. I had the option of being in Mumbai this week, but changed my schedule for one reason or another.
     
  7. Phil Ayesho

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    I beg to differ, Drifter.

    Mumbai USED to be Bombay.

    The new government of that state is strongly pro muslim and has forced the islamification of many city's names.


    Do not mistake islamic fundamentalism's goals... they are actively seeking the spread of Islam by the sword if necessary.

    Indonesia, and other once progressive nations are suffering greatly from steady efforts to impose ancient religious nincompoopery on the governments and their citizenry.


    Here in the US we are faced with our own fundamentalist political movement trying to undermine science education, actively seek to subvert the constitution, and to re-write American history as that of a religious nations rather than a secular one. From the radicalizing of the Air Force academy to the Mormon funding of anti gay legislation... the sky daddy believers are on the offensive.


    All over the world the forces of religious ignorance and intolerance are on the march.
    All over the world people deluded by religious fantasies are struggling to stop cultural and scientific progress.

    The enemy is not islam... not al queda....
    the enemy are the delusions of moral certainty grounded in faith in magic and lunacy.


    Time to fight back against the embarrassment of belief.
     
  8. jason_els

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    Here's part of the email sent by Deccan Mujahideen, the group claiming responsibility:
    Unconfirmed reports suggest that the Deccan Mujahideen is related to Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Harkat ul Jihad al Islami, with possible support from Pakistan&#8217;s Inter-Service Intelligence.
     
  9. Nrets

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    My hunch is that this is the work of the indian equivalent of the weathermen of America in the 60's.
     
  10. Drifterwood

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    I took Flash to be referring to the whole of India.

    There is nothing pro Islamic about Shiv Sena and the BJP. I would rather say that the new administration is less anti islamic than pro Islamic.

    With regard to Jason's alleged email which I don't doubt, I was expecting that these attacks would be seen by the perpetrators as retalliation. Though you always have to wait for these things to pan out.

    We have first hand experience of two groups killing each other in the UK. It becomes so cyclical that you forget almost what it was all about and who started what. You can sit on either side and blame the other whilst those in the middle get shot and blown up.

    It is perhaps a paradox of democracy that what we might see as unenlightened and anti democratic can be democratically elected by the majority. Would you deny the people this right?

    Frankly it's a pretty depressing time. Intolerance, prejudice, financial crises; it doesn't add up to a hopeful future.

    I don't agree with Flash using the term Islamofascist because it tars all with the same brush. I equally don't like what some fundamentalist christians are doing, but I won't label christians as christofascist. It's pretty offensive isn't it? How about judaeofascist?
     
    #10 Drifterwood, Nov 27, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2008
  11. Flashy

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    I more than understand it drifter, but naturally it is about Kashmir, and the other Muslim-Hindu internal Indian issues that these islamofascists feel they have the right to solve by deliberately targeting and slaughtering innocents to get their way

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Muslims are a despised minority, disliked by a large section of the majority,"

    Firoz Bakht Ahmed (muslim-Indian writer)



    but that does not excuse their actions. Many people have been despised minorities in their home countries....most do not strap bombs onto themselves and blow up innocent people. I know you are not attempting to excuse the actions of the terrorists, but the fact is that for the most part, Islamofascists always seem to choose this path to get their "point" across, no matter how useless and totally insane it is.
    [/FONT]
     
  12. Flashy

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    I am sorry if you don't agree with it, but it is a very relevant term.

    1. I have repeatedly ad nauseum stated to you that i do not consider all muslims to be islamofascists, but the fact is, that muslims who do take violent actions in the name and under the banner of islam they choose to pervert, (Al Qaieda, Taliban, etc.) and those who choose to support them, are in fact, islamofascist.

    A peaceful muslim, that wants only to worship in peace, does not hate christians, jews or hindus or others, doesn't believe in advocating violence and subjugation of other races and does not believe in those proponents of violence like Bin Laden or other extremists, is not, either in my opinion or in the nature of the term, an islamofascist. They are a muslim.

    2. No matter how many absurd christian conservative fundamentalists we have here in the USA, no matter how delusional or strict their beliefs, they are free to do what they want, through vocal or political processes until they begin attempting to harm and repress others through violence towards their point of view. A strident pro-lifer, is in my opinion a fundamentalist nutcase, but as long as their actions and protests are legal, and peacable, they are doing nothing wrong other than voicing their own view (which i disagree with). When they take their views into bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors, then they become fundamentalist lunatics, or fascists or simply murderers

    3. you seem to deliberately use your intelligence as a cloak with which to attempt to score points by saying i am tarring an "entire religion", when you know full well as i have explained a billion times in our earlier interactions here that my opinion is being misstated by you.

    People who do take their religion to the point of hurting and destroying or attempting to destroy others in the name of that religion are in fact "blank"-fascists.


    you may not like the term but it is very relevant, and only offensive to someone who does not wish to see the facts of islamofascism laid in front of them, by the actions of either those who directly take them, and those who harbor or support them complicitly.
     
  13. SilverTrain

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    Here's a clue for you:

    Most of the world isn't caught up in the idiotic "My Republicans are gonna kick Democrat ass next time" ethos. Most of the USA isn't either. Most of us have moved on. Including the bad guys. Time to focus on reality.
     
  14. Drifterwood

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    Well I continue to disagree because I think that there is a significant difference between a Mujahedin and what you call Islamofascist, and therefore your opening post is misleading.

    I will accept the term for those who would subvert the will of the majority of people in a soveriegn country and impose their interpretation of their scriptural law, but this is not the same as those who see themselves defending a cause which has (in their opinion) been attacked, whether it is their country, religion, freedom, property etc. You call these people patriots when it suits you and lunatics and terrorists when it doesn't.

    The vast majority of Muslims do not condone terrorism, when you highlight the minority incorrectly as yet again islamofascists etc etc, you are adding to the existing prejudice in the West that all Muslims are terrorists. I believe that the fact that you do this stems from your personal position over Israel and Palestine.

    The term you are looking for is Fundamental Islamists, call some of them crackpots if you like, but to associate them with Hitler is absurd, and creates a false impression that Islam is to Jewish people what Hitler was.
     
  15. MarkLondon

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    Terror strikes the US & UK abroad? Only from our perspective, really. Terror struck India: a hospital, the main railway station and a jewish centre in Mumbai (Bombay) were attacked too, as well as the luxury hotels. I expect the greatest number of casualties have been Indians. Hindu and Moslem alike.

    Yes, it is reported here that at the hotels terrorists were asking for US & UK passport-holders but there was indiscriminate killing of staff and guests as well.

    These mujahadin/islamofascists/islamic terrorists pose as big a threat (or even more of a threat) to their own people and near neighbours than they do the US & UK, in spite of their occasional "spectaculars" like 9/11 and the London Underground bombings. They might goad our governments into inappropriate responses, but they don't yet threaten to govern our daily lives as they do in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and large parts of Pakistan.
     
  16. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    yes

    from the reportage one would never know that they are trying to influence their national and local policies and attitudes
     
  17. musclebutt2

    musclebutt2 New Member

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    Hi Drifterwood, this response isn't meant as a personal attack. I am just really tired of people equating Hitler with everything fascist. That is not the case. Fascism, as a term, was brought into popular usage by its italian founders, i.e. Benito Mussolini & co. Fascism is anti- conservatism, liberalism, and communism and sees itself as a third ideology outside of the capitalist binary. Fascism IS nationalist, authoritarian, populist, radical, and violent. These days, the term fascist is generally incorrectly used to accuse an opposing camp's viewpoint as such.

    Bringing up Hitler as the bogey man for every discourse not only belittles the horrors suffered by victims of Nazism, but adulterates the symbol to a meaningless cliche. There are plenty of other butchers to choose from that might be more appropriate, such as Theodore Roosevelt, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Milosevic, and many more throughout history.
     
  18. houtx48

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    oh let the wing nutzzzzzzz think the terrorist were attacking US and brits.... then they can say zippy stayed off another attack on the usa.... remember when the ira was bombing london? they were really Muslims dressed to look irish so they could fool the bush's and tony blair.
     
  19. Drifterwood

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    I completely agree, well not about Theodore.

    This is precisely why I won't accept Flash using the term, and if he continues to do so I am going to refer to him every time we talk as a judaeofascist warmongering Muslim-Allah hater.

    I don't know if he is sponsored by the CIA, but we should resist his misleading propaganda. "Islamofascist" is the new WMD. It is a call to arms behind a flag of incorrect repesctability. I can see it now. "So why did you invade, Iran, Soldier?" "Oh, I am fighting Islamofascism."

    Well, no, you are not. You are being manipulated into thinking that the Blood for Oil programme is actually something honourable. But it is not. It is perhaps the culmination of fifty years abuse in the region in the modern era.
     
  20. Steinweg9

    Steinweg9 New Member

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