Terrorist bank records

VeeP

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findfirefox said:
Useless info, Americas Got Talent is on NBC.
Well it's still a mind-numbing piece of shit. Replace with "The Bachelor", "Dancing With the Stars", or "How to Get the Guy" and lead on...

findfirefox said:
I believe the difference between this "war" and other wars, such as WW2, is that with WW2 we were attacked, with this war we were not attacked by Iraq. If we had been attacked by Iraq then there would be much more support and this conversation probably would not be taking place.
That's where the "doctrine of preemption" comes in, and there will always be those who subscribe to that way of thinking and those who don't. Last I checked Al-Queda doesn't have a country they call "home", a standing army, or anything else you might find in a "conventional" warfare. However their overall objective is not unlike that of Hitler in the 1930's. Yes, and I know you're going to say "Al-Queda wasn't in Iraq", so don't waste your breath. Saddam's aspirations we no different; the guy idolized Hitler and Moussolini.

findfirefox said:
I think the main point that is trying to be made here is that, is it alright to take away from our civil rights for any reason. Some people would say yes if it protects us some people might say no. I also think that people are wondering to what extremes will the government go to "protect us"
No question it's a slippery slope. Who can say how much is "enough". Obviously some things have worked for nearly five years now and personally I don't feel any less "free".
 

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RideRocket said:
Why is it so difficult for everyone to understand and realize that these Islamic terrorists wish to destroy our civilization and way of life? And lest we play semantics, it's not their goal - it's their raison d'être.
nobody's disputing any of that. one would have thought, however - that being the case - just maybe it's time our governments funneled some of that colossal expenditure into actually combating terrorists, instead of terrorizing their own citizens and stealing other countries' oil. :rolleyes:

all of which is really beside the much more important point that this issue illustrates, and that nearly all of you seem to be hell-bent on ignoring. the point is this: those of who are wilfully stupid enough to trust a proven gang of liars, thieves and power-mad crooks with authority do not have the right to drag the rest of us down with you. if you wanna convince yourselves that men like george bush and tony blair are looking out for your best interests, i can't understand why you'd object to living under sharia law either - the only practical difference between those guys and the ayatollah is that he wears a dish rag on his head.

real freedom terrifies you because it means real responsibility. which is precisely the kind of attitude that our islamic lunatic "opponents" rely upon for their power base. authoritarianism is the same ugly motherfucker whether it's wearing a suit or a sheet.
 

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Dr Rock said:
....real freedom terrifies you because it means real responsibility..

And true democracy requires the active participation of all its members. Neither concept seems to have a popular understanding in the peoples of western societies.

My bank records are boring...they can have them (not)....:tongue:
 

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Well, my solution works pretty good. Keep about $10 in the bank and only deposit money in your account when you absolutely have to. Deal with a local CU, not a national chain bank and find somewhere else to put the rest of your money.

Assume someone is listening in on your conversations at all times, keeping track of the books you buy or even check out from the library (I actually had to sign a form saying I understood the government was keeping track of what I read. My computer was broke down for a couple weeks and I got a library card to come here, so now they know I like weenies). Fortunately, it's not illegal (yet) to like weenies and I don't give a rat fuck what anyone thinks about anything I do, but it IS unnerving to know THEY might care. Am I on some government watch list now? Probably.

As a follow up on DC's story, there was a laptop stolen, presumably by a "terrorist" that contained information on the employees at Equifax, one of the three credit and data centers for North America. Naturally, someone travelling through London with this type of sensitive info wouldn't bother to have it encrypted. People are such fucktards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13437723/
 

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madame_zora said:
Well, my solution works pretty good. Keep about $10 in the bank and only deposit money in your account when you absolutely have to. Deal with a local CU, not a national chain bank and find somewhere else to put the rest of your money.

Sounds easy for me, I never have money in my accounts. :tongue:

Dr Rock said:
All of which is really beside the much more important point that this issue illustrates, and that nearly all of you seem to be hell-bent on ignoring. the point is this: those of who are wilfully stupid enough to trust a proven gang of liars, thieves and power-mad crooks with authority do not have the right to drag the rest of us down with you. if you wanna convince yourselves that men like george bush and tony blair are looking out for your best interests, i can't understand why you'd object to living under sharia law either - the only practical difference between those guys and the ayatollah is that he wears a dish rag on his head.

A+ Great job.
 

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Since the Bush administration was correct about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq (not to mention the reception we'd receive after we invaded), I have high confidence we can trust the Bush administration to use the bank transactions and phone records only for national security purposes.
 

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SpeedoGuy said:
I have high confidence we can trust the Bush administration to use the bank transactions and phone records only for national security purposes.
Let's see, they couldn't even manage to connect the dots on the 20 hijackers, many of whom were already under suspicion. Now consider, if you will, the amount the resources required to sniff the shit of 290+ million people. If they really think mine is worth a whiff, then by all means... knock yourselves out!

I worry more about the precedential implications than I do being personally "violated" by the current powers that be. Placing the same techniques in the hands of future derilicts is a scary thought indeed. But, once again, we had been looking the other way for decades prior to 9/11, then suddenly found ourselves on the defense and having to play catch-up. Typically one isn't inclined to spend a lot of time nitpicking minutia whilst others busily plot to wipe his ass off the map. Which results in a rushed Patriot Act, and so on.
 

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VeeP said:
...But, once again, we had been looking the other way for decades prior to 9/11, then suddenly found ourselves on the defense and having to play catch-up. Typically one isn't inclined to spend a lot of time nitpicking minutia whilst others busily plot to wipe his ass off the map. Which results in a rushed Patriot Act, and so on.

American foreign policy both public and private seldom looks the other way and over the last 50 years has usually had its hand up the ass of some volatile 'situation' or another. I think it's as much reaping what's was sown as being caught 'unawares'. I suspect the 'patriot act' which in title is in almost direct contradiction to effect is far from being new and rushed; but had been long awaiting its prom night.
 

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madame_zora said:
....Assume someone is listening in on your conversations at all times, keeping track of the books you buy or even check out from the library (I actually had to sign a form saying I understood the government was keeping track of what I read. My computer was broke down for a couple weeks and I got a library card to come here, so now they know I like weenies). Fortunately, it's not illegal (yet) to like weenies and I don't give a rat fuck what anyone thinks about anything I do, but it IS unnerving to know THEY might care. Am I on some government watch list now? Probably.

In the sense that I believe the words 'dick' and 'massive' in proximity to 'Cheney' and 'Bush' are watchwords so yes, you probably are.:rolleyes: Oops me too..:eek:

madame_zora said:
As a follow up on DC's story, there was a laptop stolen, presumably by a "terrorist" that contained information on the employees at Equifax, one of the three credit and data centers for North America. Naturally, someone travelling through London with this type of sensitive info wouldn't bother to have it encrypted. People are such fucktards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13437723/

On the Sears Tower thing:

"...The raid on the Miami-based group grabbed the national media spotlight but officials denied there was any political motivation before midterm congressional elections in November, amid a deep slump in President George W. Bush's popularity and in public support for the Iraq war. Critics of the administration frequently accuse it of exploiting fear of a repeat of the September 11 attack..."

Whatever will they do next, tsk tsk.:rolleyes:

Maybe these 'terrorists' used the library too. When even the FBI use phrases like 'there was no real threat' and 'the plot was more inspirational than operational' you know there's generous quantities of fish and bovine excrement involved.
 

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VeeP said:
ABC, huh. And you're basing this on what, exactly? Let's face it, every media outlet has some sort of slant and there is no 'pure' journalism anymore. It's all devolved into sensationalistic crap because our attention spans have dwindled to that of gnats and we'd much rather decide who in America Has Talent (the latest mind-numbing, piece-of-shit offering from none other than ABC, ironically).

Little hint for you - We are discussing the NEWS, not the entertainment departments. For instance, Fox has great entertainment, The Family Guy comes to mind. However, their news network is so extremely biased as to be laughable. ABC is, indeed, just as I said, LESS biased. It's amazing how you twist words and attempt to make what I said into something entirely different. Go back and read what I posted.

Those would trade essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety and will lose both.
 

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ETA123 said:
Little hint for you - We are discussing the NEWS, not the entertainment departments. For instance, Fox has great entertainment, The Family Guy comes to mind. However, their news network is so extremely biased as to be laughable. ABC is, indeed, just as I said, LESS biased. It's amazing how you twist words and attempt to make what I said into something entirely different. Go back and read what I posted.

Those would trade essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety and will lose both.

If you want pretty much unbiased news...watch the BBC. It's a no brainer.
 

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VeeP said:
Just what did we think "life as we know it will change" would end up meaning post-9/11? Do we honestly think these people lay awake at night contemplating ways to strip people of their civil liberties under the 'guise' of stopping terrorism? If we even knew the half of what they're intercepting we probably all be hiding under our beds. How about focusing a little frustration on those in this world who have such disregard for human life that they will actually mutilate others beyond recognition for the sake of their 'religious' cause. Just how much "reliable" coverage has that gotten? Already faded from memory, hasn't it... poof.

We'd never make it if we had to fight WW II over again. :rolleyes:

You mean, perhaps, like what some US soldiers have done to people in their custody? Or maybe you're referring to the Haditha massacre? Or maybe you'd like to discuss the "trophy video" made by contractors in Iraq shooting random civilians? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...rq27.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/11/27/ixworld.html

Don't be so quick to point fingers when our own people there under the guise of "liberation" have committed atrocities of their own.

Actually, we WOULD make it if we had to fight WWII again. Why? Because we actually were fighting against a nation that had attacked us and their allies. Iraq never attacked us, never posed a threat to us, and had no means to attack us. There was NO terrorism in Iraq prior to our arrival, no car bombings, no suicide bombings, etc.

It's amazing how many people (such as yourself) have bought so far into the propaganda that's shoved down your throat that you fail to actually look at facts and history.

So tell me, how is their ideology any different from those who expressed the honest desire to nuke the middle east following 9/11?
 

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Dr Rock said:
that hasn't been true for well over 25 years now.

For the most part I disagree and I said, pretty much unbiased...:tongue:

Personally I take most mainstream news with a pinch of salt, some more salt than others, the BBC less than most.
 

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Dr Rock said:
that hasn't been true for well over 25 years now.

True, but you WILL find news stories in the BBC that will never be covered by the US media. For instance, how long did it take anyone in the US to notice the story about the Downing Street Minutes (the ones from meetings in 2002 proving that Bush was hell-bent on war, regardless of the results of UN inspectors and had already scheduled the invasion)? The US media refused to cover the story.
 

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ETA123 said:
Little hint for you - We are discussing the NEWS, not the entertainment departments.
That was an attempt to inject a little levity in the discussion whilst explaining one reason I think journalism has gone down the tubes. Lighten up, dude .:rolleyes:

ETA123 said:
ABC is, indeed, just as I said, LESS biased. It's amazing how you twist words and attempt to make what I said into something entirely different. Go back and read what I posted.
This the second time you've made the statement, therefore I will ask you again to back it up. "LESS biased"... BASED ON WHAT? No "twisting" there.
 

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ETA123 said:
You mean, perhaps, like what some US soldiers have done to people in their custody? Or maybe you're referring to the Haditha massacre? Or maybe you'd like to discuss the "trophy video" made by contractors in Iraq shooting random civilians?
War is ugly, no doubt about it and incidents such as these only serve to weaken our cause. Are incidents such as these reason to abandon our cause? Personally, I don't think so.

ETA123 said:
Don't be so quick to point fingers when our own people there under the guise of "liberation" have committed atrocities of their own.
Nice of you to disparage all of our troops in one shot based on the inexcusable actions of a few. Well done!

ETA123 said:
Actually, we WOULD make it if we had to fight WWII again. Why? Because we actually were fighting against a nation that had attacked us and their allies. Iraq never attacked us, never posed a threat to us, and had no means to attack us.
"A nation"? Do tell me which history book you are working from. Apparently the pages about Hitler marching across Europe have gone missing from yours.

Let's get one thing straight. I never made a case in support of invading Iraq, nor did my original post even mention Iraq. It was injected into the discussion by another member (and predictably so, but...)

What I suggested was that maybe some people, instead of worrying about how they're being "violated", should pause to think about what got us to this point and the fact that there are those who would like to KILL them and will stop at nothing to do so. Listening to phone calls and looking at bank transactions has nothing to do with Iraq, specifically.

What do you propose we do to thwart these bastards?

ETA123 said:
There was NO terrorism in Iraq prior to our arrival, no car bombings, no suicide bombings, etc.
Lest you forget terrorists such as Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas were both known to have been based in Iraq at one time or another (remember Leon Klinghoffer and the Achille-Laurel?). Again, better check that history book.

Oh, and while you're at it, you should probably remind the families of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that were slaughtered and dumped in mass graves, or maybe even the Kurds in Halabja that were gassed, that there was NO terrorism in Iraq. Doubtless they'd agree.

Care to reign in your sweeping generalizations just a smidge?

ETA123 said:
So tell me, how is their ideology any different from those who expressed the honest desire to nuke the middle east following 9/11?
Umm... "their" ideology has advanced a little further than mere "desires", my friend. And yes, I'm well aware there are extremists on all sides of this debate, and I'll be the first to admit their bullshit is of no benefit to the cause, either.