VeeP said:
If I interpreted your post correctly, I believe you're trying to equate "uninformed and ignornant" (both largely subjective terms) with "troll nonsense" and personally I don't agree with the comparison. We can't all be brilliant, articulate wordsmiths; that doesn't invalidate what as person has to say nor their core beliefs. Does that mean they should go unchallenged should they choose to stick their neck out? No.
When I use the terms "uninformed and ignorant", I don't intend for them to be subjective - you are either informed or not, concerning what the "Patriot Act" spells out. How can that be subjective? Ignorant simply means the person ignores something. Blindly accepting what you are told that the patriot act does, and actually knowing what it does are worlds apart. I have checked on it.
Just an example: I was doing some work for a 501(c)(3) organization here in Washington, DC. They unexpectedly lost their treasurer, and I volunteered to step in temporarily, until the board could seat a new, permanent, officer. In going to the bank to have the signatory sheets changed over, I was told repeatedly that they would have to put my social security number on those accounts. I flatly refused, and explained to them that the way they even asked for it violated the Privacy Act. They told me no, the Patriot Act had provisions that superceded the Privacy Act, and that the Patriot Act also required that I give my SSN. I asked to see the mandates. They said they couldn't find them. I asked to be put in contact with their legal counsel. I was promised, 3 times, that he would contact me. He did not. Only when I informed them that my next step would be the banking commission, did they admit that they had lied to me, and they subsequently processed the necessary paperwork... without my SSN. The bank employees were obviously instructed to lie and manipulate customers. If I had been ignorant and uninformed, they would have gotten away with it. I choose to stay current on matters that interest me.
The reason I mention this is that those responses to which you refer had nothing substantive, but insinuate that anything except waving a flag and shouting "support our troops" is unpatriotic. I am a veteran of the United States Marine Corps, I supported our troops by putting my life on the line. I am a devoted patriot. But I am not a doormat. Following blindly without question is not the mark of a good and patriotic citizen - just ask any good german citizen from 1930 to 1946. Governments DO lie, their supporters lie too - as do their detractors. The comment that "they hate us because of our good life here" is just completely inane, and is the result of such following blindly, and believing the rhetoric and propaganda that is fed to us. As one of our more informed members posted, bin Laden's whole jihad began with the Saudi government allowing US troops on what he considered to be holy ground. That's not opinion, it's documented.
I'm just really tiring of the "holier-than-thou" attitude persisted by some here, particularly when they've engaged in no less "trollish" behavior, refuse to acknowlege it and furthermore dismiss it as somehow "befitting" to their argument. And, quite frankly, I could give two shits whether it was part of a more 'substantive' post or not. It is what it is, if you were out of line... JUST FUCKING ADMIT IT.
I have no problem admitting errors, when I see that I have made them. Was I out of line? When I say "trollish behavior", I refer to those who post simply to stir up dissent within a thread... comments such as (don't look for this one in gwr or jeffin posts, it is not there, this is an example) "quit slamming our government. be a patriot for once and just shut up." That's definitely a troll comment. Otherwise, if a member finds a particular thread offensive, or of an uninteresting subject, why even bother to post?
