Testophel vs. Androgel vs. shots

TdTorquemada

Just Browsing
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Posts
32
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
41
Have a question for guys on hormone replacement therapy.

I'm 68 and currently, and have been for two years, using Androgel 1.65--4 pumps a day. Damned stuff is expensive even with insurance and most recently even more expensive due to changes--thank you Obamacare. And, it's messy. Works great though.

Has anyone changed to Testopel? Testopel pellets are implanted at your hip or other fatty area and are good for 3-4 months.

Anyone taking shots?

What's your experience
 
First, I have not tried implanted pills, and probably wouldn't. *shudders*

My husband using injectables and he's fine with them weekly. However, the needle is a bit longer and the testosterone is a bit thicker. So he uses two different needles. One thicker one to draw the stuff out of the vial and a thinner one to inject himself.

As for the expense, ask your pharmacy for a discount card from the manufacturer.

You don't have your location listed, but since you mention "obamacare" (the affordable care act), then you're in the US. If you use Walgreens, CVS, or any major chain, the manufacturers have discount plans that bolt on top of any insurance.

So even with a $40-60 copay, the manufacturer will rebate the drugstore $30-50.

Worth looking into.

-K
 
Have a question for guys on hormone replacement therapy.

I'm 68 and currently, and have been for two years, using Androgel 1.65--4 pumps a day. Damned stuff is expensive even with insurance and most recently even more expensive due to changes--thank you Obamacare. And, it's messy. Works great though.

Has anyone changed to Testopel? Testopel pellets are implanted at your hip or other fatty area and are good for 3-4 months.

Anyone taking shots?

What's your experience

I use the testopel pellets. 11 of them every 4 months. If I notice the libido sinking I might ask to have them done closer to 3 months. Doesn't hurt too much but remember to stop all meds that have aspirin or ANY blood thinning properties. Otherwise, major bruising occurs [ it did with me twice; then I had them put an ice pack on the insertion area for about 10 minutes. stopped all meds a week and 1/2 prior. Didn't have a single bruise area. ].
the libido for the next 6 - 8 weeks is incredible. so are the workouts, and sleeping at night.
 
I was using androgel for about 2 months and then I stopped because of all the tv and facebook ads about if you used androgel and it caused harm to your body to call a lawyer....so I stopped ...just wondering if all that was true !!
 
Androgel has helped me get back in shape--lost 35 pounds last year and down to 175 lbs at 5'10"--in part by making me just want to go to the gym and work out. No more excuses. (Also cut out all alcohol.) And it along with some little blue pills keep Woody the Woodpecker happy. The libido is okay!.

I find it also helps with things like balance, mood, energy and mental alertness.

Yet slopping it on and the hassle of dealing with it in TSA checks has got me looking for the alternatives. Thanks for info about the pellets. I'll be seeing a urologist in a couple weeks and want to do my research ahead of time.

As for the ambulance chasing lawyer ads, meh.
 
After doing some research, I decided that shots had the least risk, so I went to one of those "male anti-aging" clinics and started weekly shots of testosterone cypionate. After a month or 2, I loved the results. Not just libido or better workout results, but I felt like my mind was clearer and more focused. I was performing better at work and just felt more motivated overall.

Unfortunately, six months in, at my annual physical, my blood tests showed high hematocrit levels - indicating the somewhat rare but concerning side effect of blood thickening, which was already raising my blood pressure to unsafe levels. My doctor (who before the blood test results had no real issue with the TRT treatments) strongly advised me to end HRT, which I've done. I didn't have a hard "crash", but 4 weeks after my last shot I'm still feeling "off" - a little depressed, hard to get motivated. Still waking up with morning wood quite often but not the intense morning wood I had every morning at the height of treatment. But, all in all, not worth risking my life. My experience is probably atypical, so I'm not against HRT, but please make sure you get regular blood work to make sure you're not doing yourself harm.
 
I didn't have a hard "crash", but 4 weeks after my last shot I'm still feeling "off" - a little depressed, hard to get motivated. Still waking up with morning wood quite often but not the intense morning wood I had every morning at the height of treatment.

It probably won't work as well as HRT, but there are some things you can do to boost testosterone naturally. Cold showers and ice packs on the testicles (over clothes so you don't hurt the skin) can help a bit. Food and exercise is an obvious one to do as well.

Avoiding porn and masturbation is also really good at keeping your mood elevated.

These might have only a small impact, but hey, better than nothing.
 
Shots only for me. Big reason is when it hits your blood its testosterone. With creams/gels they can convert to just about anything on the way thru the skin b4 hitting the blood.

Bottom line shots are way to go:)
 
I've been taking part in a national research study for a new testosterone replacement system.
The testosterone is delivered subcutaneously? (just under the skin) next to the bellybutton. The shots are given with a single use dispenser that looks something like a large magic marker. The testosterone is pre measured.
Very simple, painless and fast.
I'm looking forward to this device making it to market.
My results have been very positive.
 
I've been taking part in a national research study for a new testosterone replacement system.
The testosterone is delivered subcutaneously? (just under the skin) next to the bellybutton. The shots are given with a single use dispenser that looks something like a large magic marker. The testosterone is pre measured.
Very simple, painless and fast.
I'm looking forward to this device making it to market.
My results have been very positive.


Mind telling your age? What led you to the diagnosis? How'd you get on the study. I hate needles, but this doesn't sound too bad. How often do you get shots and do you do it yourself?

Thanks
 
I've been on Androgel for several years, and highly recommend it. One issue with me is that sometimes my body's natural production spikes up, and it is necessary to cut back on the supplement for a couple of days. This is much easier with Androgel.

The standard shots are not testosterone injected into the blood, as someone incorrectly claimed above. The liver quickly destroys testosterone, so it must be slowly infused into the body over an extended period. Your T-level is the balance achieved between the rate of gradual infusion, and the rate of metabolism by the liver.

Rather, the testosterone in standard injections is dissolved in an oil. A blob of this oil is injected into your muscle or fat, where it sits until it is slowly is absorbed over the period until you next shot (days to weeks). As it is absorbed, the testosterone is gradually released. Although cheap and simple, this scheme is bad for several reasons:

1. To function properly, the body needs to see a daily cycle of testosterone, which naturally spikes up in the morning (hence, morning wood!) and falls during the day. Since the injected oil infuses the T at a constant rate, you don't get the cycle.

2. If you are like me, and need to adjust the dose according to mood and libido, this is hard with a standard injection, because a supply lasting days to weeks (according to the method chosen by your doctor) is put in the body at once, and no reduction is possible if your level starts to get too high. (There is such a thing as too much T; typical symptoms in my experience include acting like an asshole.)

The Androgel also works on a gradual release principal, but on a day-to-day basis, not several days to weeks like standard shots. When you apply the gel to your skin, the testosterone is quickly absorbed into the skin and subcutaneous fat, which acts as a reservoir for the T, even after the gel is washed off. The testosterone stored in this reservoir passes gradually and continuously into the blood over a period of about a day. However, the nature of the process is that the T level spikes when the gel is first applied, then the rate of infusion slows down as the reservoir becomes exhausted. So, if you apply Androgel in the morning, you closely mimic the body's natural testosterone cycle.

In my case, I find I have to adjust the dose downward for a day or two now and then, presumably because my body decided to naturally produce some. (We've never been able to figure out why my body is erratic, but the test results show that it is.) With Androgel, this is easy: just skip a daily dose.

There are a number of gels similar to Androgel, such as Testim, Axiron, Vogelxo, etc. They are all similar, except that the application instructions differ a bit. All of these are expensive, because you pay for convenience, and they are also wasteful. Only about 10% of the testosterone in the gel actually ever makes it into the blood stream. The rest washes off. (Injectables, however, eventually deliver 100%.) Eventually, the product will become a generic (although DEA controlled) drug, and prices will drop. The testosterone used is chemically synthesized from soybeans, and is not all that expensive. (By the way, soybeans contain stuff that mimics sex hormones, including female hormones. As such, there is some debate if men should ever eat soy products. However, soy is so prevalent in modern processed food, that it is almost impossible to avoid.)

There is an additional form of gel, really a cream, which is prepared by compounding pharmacies by mixing testosterone powder with a greasy cream. This is not as nice to use as the alcohol-gel-based products like Androgel, and the absorption mechanism is a bit different. On the other hand, if your insurance doesn't pay for the fancy Androgel, this can be a cheaper alternative. However, you'll have to find a doctor who understands how to work with a compounding pharmacy, and how not to get ripped off.

There are disadvantages of all the topical creams/gels. You can't get the application area wet or sweaty for hours after application, so if you have a morning gym routine, etc, this could be a problem. The gel can rub off onto others, such as your wife or children. There have been cases where very small children entered something like puberty years early (including extraordinary development of the penis) because of contact with their father, who was using topical testosterone. If these are considerations, a gel might not be a good idea.

Another issue with gels is the available body surface area. I am sufficiently hairy in the application areas listed in the Androgel instructions that I cannot actually apply the gel as instructed. However, with my doctor's guidance, I have found enough smooth skin in other areas to make it work. (Curiously, despite premature male pattern baldness and a very hairy upper body, I have low T. The only giveaway is that I never grew armpit hair until I started on Androgel a decade ago at age 43.)

There are also patches, which work like the smoking-cessation nicotine patches, but with testosterone. These usually stay on for a few days.These aren't very popular, but are the best solution for some people. Unlike an injection, if you find you need to drop the dose immediately, you can peel the patch off.

The sub-dermal implants work on pretty much the same schedule as the injected oil. If you can get away with a steady dose, this might work, but if you need variability in the dose, this is not a good option.

There are some new products in clinical trials that work by injecting a small amount of drug into subcutaneous fat, from where it is slowly absorbed, on a daily basis. They use a simple, painless injector like an epi-pen. This might overcome a lot of the disadvantages of other methods, but I don't think anything has made it to market yet. (Drug approval is a painfully slow process in the USA.)
 
Last edited:
Thanks so much for the excellent, thorough details, ericbear!
 
There are some new products in clinical trials that work by injecting a small amount of drug into subcutaneous fat, from where it is slowly absorbed, on a daily basis. They use a simple, painless injector like an epi-pen. This might overcome a lot of the disadvantages of other methods, but I don't think anything has made it to market yet. (Drug approval is a painfully slow process in the USA.)

This is the clinical trials I'm participating in.
I first began using injections to my leg. The injections worked best for me, but since I was in control of the dosage, the temptation to add a little extra won out, and I ended up with extremely high levels (1500). Long story short, I was taken off of injectable, and put on everything listed in ericbear's post. None of it worked as well as the injections.
I answered and ad on the radio last year for men with low T to enter into these clinical trials.
I'm very happy with this form of injection since the dosage is set, and I'm given only enough until the next check up.
The automated injection is extremely easy to use, painless and quick. You never see the needle.
I'm very optimistic this will make it to market, and if it doesn't by the end of my year long trial, I'll go back to the old fashion self injection method.
With the lessons learned to strictly never over dose again.
 
2. If you are like me, and need to adjust the dose according to mood and libido, this is hard with a standard injection, because a supply lasting days to weeks (according to the method chosen by your doctor) is put in the body at once, and no reduction is possible if your level starts to get too high. (There is such a thing as too much T; typical symptoms in my experience include acting like an asshole.)


ericbear

Thanks for the great review of you medical experience. Your item #2 is especially interesting, as many guys may not realize the impact T levels can have on their social-sexual attitudes.

Here are a couple of articles that may add some perspective to the issue.

Five tests that could predict male infidelity

Why Do Men Cheat? Science Says · Men's Health articles | Family Health center | SteadyHealth.com
 
I have the implants about every 3-4 months. I can feel when they are wearing off. I become listless with a low libido. I have a blood test about 10 days before the implant because my insurance requires proof of low T before they will authorized the implant. The procedure is almost painless with little or no bruising.

I started out using the gel but the smell of horrible and messy. The implant takes about 20 minutes and you are good to go. T level when low is around 190 - 200. After implant 500 - 700. The stuff is like magic.
 
You might want to take a completely different approach which worked quite well for me.

I had originally been on shots, then on Androgel to get my testosterone levels back up to normal range (they had sunk so low I started developing breast tissue!). My doctor took me off of them and changed my treatment to oral clomiphene tablets. They are very cheap and work in a different way to re-start your body's own natural production of testosterone. They essentially jump-start your testes just like what happened to you at puberty. My balls regrew to normal size quickly (a bit uncomfortable at first) and free testosterone was back up within 6 months. I stopped taking them about a year ago and just had a recheck last month - levels remain in the healthy normal range without ANY ongoing treatment whatsoever.

You are not going to get any rushes like you would with shots, but you also won't have to have injections or deal with expensive gels or creams.
 
I know the OP is older and has Low T but people need to be really honest with themselves when diving into HRT. MOST doctors are clueless or just don't care about this stuff. More often than not they just throw some testosterone at you and say alright you are good to go. When you start adding Test to your body a whole bunch of stuff starts happening and after a year and a half I decided it wasn't worth the headaches.
At 35 I decided to pay attention to these amazing commercials about lazing guys needing more Test. So I went and had my T levels checked and it was around 300. Without any hesitation my doc decides Testopel is where it's at and says he wants me in the 1000 range. I had that done a couple times and then when the new year rolled around the office said I needed to pay like $750 out of pocket because of the new year deductible. I laughed and asked what other options I had due to money.
He then gave me a bottle of Test Cypionate and some needles and said Inject 3ccs of this every month. I thought, that's alot but ok.
I decided to do some research on it and I am glad I did. Your body needs smaller, more stable doses of this stuff so I started at half a cc a week. Yes it increased libido and made me more active but it also woke up some bad acne problems I had as a teen. I felt great so I moved to two doses a week, Tuesdays and Fridays to help my workouts. Still half a cc each time. That sent my levels through the roof and my blood tests scared the doctor at like 1900. I was working out like mad but I was also eat up with bad back acne and was not level headed and calm like most people say. I was ill, alot. YMMV however. More research showed me that HRT is not a one shot wonder. Longterm HRT needs much more thought put into it and there are numerous forums out there tht will help you clue your doctor in. Doctors do not like to be clue in however. T Nation has a forum about HRT and the guys there have it down to a science. Clomid, testicular atrophy, estrogen, male breasts. There is alot more to think about than just which method to use.
Please find a doctor that REALLY wants to help you and if this is long term, find a doctor that knows you need more than a shot.
I finally decided, once all the info about heart attacks and stuff started surfacing that my T wasn't that low on it's own and that most of the time, there is a reason that your body is doing what it is doing.
 
After doing some research, I decided that shots had the least risk, so I went to one of those "male anti-aging" clinics and started weekly shots of testosterone cypionate. After a month or 2, I loved the results. Not just libido or better workout results, but I felt like my mind was clearer and more focused. I was performing better at work and just felt more motivated overall.

Unfortunately, six months in, at my annual physical, my blood tests showed high hematocrit levels - indicating the somewhat rare but concerning side effect of blood thickening, which was already raising my blood pressure to unsafe levels. My doctor (who before the blood test results had no real issue with the TRT treatments) strongly advised me to end HRT, which I've done. I didn't have a hard "crash", but 4 weeks after my last shot I'm still feeling "off" - a little depressed, hard to get motivated. Still waking up with morning wood quite often but not the intense morning wood I had every morning at the height of treatment. But, all in all, not worth risking my life. My experience is probably atypical, so I'm not against HRT, but please make sure you get regular blood work to make sure you're not doing yourself harm.

Baldsurfer: You may want to ask to be checked for iron overload, or hemachromatosis. I have about 1/3 of one testicle (long story), so several years ago I tested below 25 for free testosterone, and even borderline minimum for bone density when I finally was started on testosterone. I felt way better, but still tired and achy. I would always feel better after donating blood. I had a doctor check ferritin and hemoglobin as well as other hematocrits. After seeing the results - seemed anemic at 3,75 hemoglobin but high bound iron, he had the check for hemachromatosis mutation done (about $150 with insurance). I have two of three mutations, and a side effect is fatigue, low testosterone, and thick blood. The cure is to donate blood! This makes all the difference in the world for me. It is fairly new for doctors, with the mutation discovered inly 15 years ago.

Hemochromatosis « Hemochromatosis Information Society
Hemochromatosis.org - An Education Website for Hemochromatosis and Too Much Iron
http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...4b057f9e38bfadf/1420054370996/HHC_ALL2011.pdf