Testosterone production/supplements

[RamblingCock]

This is a serious question. I'm male, in my fifties. After having my testosterone drop well below what is considered normal for guys my urologist put me on t-shots, which I have been receiving bi-weekly for the last six months. It's worked wonders, and I'm very, very happy we did this. He's moving me onto gel now.

However: One of the side-effects of getting testosterone supplements is that your own system essentially decides that if someone else is going to do it, then there's no need for your own body to continue its own production. Your balls shrink a bit as a result, but I'll gladly take the harder penis and better orgasms any time.

My question is this, and it's for anyone who has either gone through this or is a medical professional: If you stop taking the shots or getting the supplements, does the body resume production or will you simply suffer a drop back -- probably below what was a previous very low level.

I am working out and improving my physical condition as a result of feeling much stronger, which ought to improve my t-production I would think.

(My insurance is changing, and there's a possibility I may need to pay for the treatment out of my own pocket.)

Anyone with actual experience is asked to reply. And thanks!

 

[find83]

Very interesting thread. Sorry but I'm not a health professional, I only did some research after reading you thread. From my research, when you stop the treatment your body will go through certain withdrawal symptoms. The severity of the withdrawal symptoms depends on the dosage and how long you were on the Testosterone treatment. The higher the dosage and the longer the treatment the more severe the with drawl symptoms. Your levels will decrease once you stop taking the treatment but overtime your nervous system will adjust and your T levels will go back to how it was before you were taking your testosterone treatment. The fact that you are exercising will actually hell maintain your t-levels longer because working out naturally promotes testosterone in men. Also there is a supplement totally natural that a lot of fitness and bodybuilders take that helps promote testosterone as well, it's called ZMA. ZMA is a vitamin supplement containing Zinc, magnesium and B6 it also has the added effect of being a sleep aid as well. You take it before going to sleep, just make sure you do not take it with any dairy or calcium because calcium blocks the absorption of magnesium (first check with your Doctor/Health professional to see if it's ok and does not interact with any existing medication you are taking)

I hope some health professionals here can elaborate more for your particular situation

Here are some links I found that might help

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/08/06/testosterone-withdrawal-symptoms-what-you-may-notice/

https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/complete-guide-to-t-replacement

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/4-methods-to-boost-testosterone-with-food (here are some natural ways to boost testosterone)

 

[RamblingCock]

Find83 - Thank you for this response. Wasn't looking for medical professionals as much as experiential info, and this is terrific. Thank you.

 

[276992]

If you stop your body will return to "your" normal and your balls will likely regain size. Depending on duration of treatment things may not return to normal.

You're on the treatment because you need it. Stay on it. Low testosterone is linked to a triple risk of heart attack and stroke. My advice would be to find a way to pay or get a new job that has benefits that cover it.

 

[sangheili90]

If you stop your body will return to "your" normal and your balls will likely regain size. Depending on duration of treatment things may not return to normal.

You're on the treatment because you need it. Stay on it. Low testosterone is linked to a triple risk of heart attack and stroke. My advice would be to find a way to pay or get a new job that has benefits that cover it.

Depending on how long someone is on TRT or a cycle one may need to go on HCG to encourage their body to begin producing testosterone again. Some men may never have their natural levels return and may have to rely on testosterone shots for life, it's a very tricky and complicated scenario.

I think there is a documentary about former pro bodybuilder Flex Wheeler, pretty sure that's who it is, that discusses all of this. Pretty interesting.

 

[JackDoff]

I'm not a medical professional.

I've been self administering test since I turned 40 now 45 I did this more for muscle gain but the other side effects of raised libido and confidence were much appreciated. In answer to your question from a bodybuilding point of view when you stop your cycle of test you will fall below what was your original starting point. This is because of the effect of exogenous test on the HTPA (Hypothalamus Testicular Pituitary Axis) the hypothalamus senses the extra test in the body and sends a signal via the HTPA to turn of the leydig cells in the testes to stop test production, hence the testicular atrophy (ball shrinkage) when you stop the therapy you need to wait for the leydig cells to switch back on. Oestrogen will be high during this phase and BBers will usually take an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor) to stop the aromatase enzyme converting the free test into more oestrogen. Returning to your normal state could take months, especially at your age.

Question why would you want to cease the therapy? You're getting the health benefits from it aren't you?

I've resigned myself to the fact that I will remain on test for the rest of my life, however because of my love of training I have adopted a Blast & Cruise approach which involves adding other compounds/steroids to mix for 10-14 weeks then going back to a low dose test for 8+ weeks. As I get older I'll just opt for test only while keeping oestrogen in check with an AI.

There are other test booster on the market that don't have the potential to shut you down. Search for SARMs (Selective Androgen Re-uptake Modulators) these are classified as a research chemical but are easily sourced in the US. A good source of info is isarms.com if you're dead set on stopping the therapy these will assist you while your body attempts to return to normal. In your circumstances I'd be looking at Ostarine (MK-2866) and or Testalon (RAD 140). I'm not advocating the use of research chemicals in any shape or form I can give you my personal experience using them tho. You will potentially however even with medical help have a difficult recovery period.

I'm aware that sourcing testosterone in the UK is far easier than in the US, but there are ways if that's a route you wish to follow.

Feel free to PM me.

 

[JackDoff]

Just re-read your post - insurance change. It's ridiculous that the policy can change and affect the medication you are currently receiving. I'm not totally au fait with the medical system over there nor health insurance other than what my wife & I have for physio treatments etc but stopping life changing medication because of a change in policy is madness, surely any meds currently being used will continue under the new policy would be better? No profit in that tho I guess.

 

[JackDoff]

that should read HPTA not htpa

 

[RamblingCock]

Jack - Thank you for the detailed commentary. I really appreciate the input. Yes, insurance and I am completely in agreement. The only Americans who oppose what you in the UK (and Canada and many other countries) have is fear-mongering by special interests. We travel a lot internationally and are frequently met with incredulity when they try to understand the American system. As I tell them, it isn't the treatment or medical community which is screwed up, it's how we bill for their services.

Thanks again!

 

[JackDoff]

No problem, there are ways around this if you're prepared to bend the rules and are happy to inject yourself.

 

[BetterFuture]

Anyone with actual experience is asked to reply.

I don't have actual experience, but I have talked with some guys who used steroids and when they stopped had low T.

If you stop taking the shots or getting the supplements, does the body resume production

I think that depending on the duration, it might. The longer you get the shots, the less likely your body will resume. But I have heard of Clomid being used to "restart" the system after steroids have shut down natural testosterone production. Perhaps that might work in your case?

 

[ManchesterTom]

I'm not a medical professional.

I've been self administering test since I turned 40 now 45 I did this more for muscle gain but the other side effects of raised libido and confidence were much appreciated. In answer to your question from a bodybuilding point of view when you stop your cycle of test you will fall below what was your original starting point. This is because of the effect of exogenous test on the HTPA (Hypothalamus Testicular Pituitary Axis) the hypothalamus senses the extra test in the body and sends a signal via the HTPA to turn of the leydig cells in the testes to stop test production, hence the testicular atrophy (ball shrinkage) when you stop the therapy you need to wait for the leydig cells to switch back on. Oestrogen will be high during this phase and BBers will usually take an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor) to stop the aromatase enzyme converting the free test into more oestrogen. Returning to your normal state could take months, especially at your age.

Question why would you want to cease the therapy? You're getting the health benefits from it aren't you?

I've resigned myself to the fact that I will remain on test for the rest of my life, however because of my love of training I have adopted a Blast & Cruise approach which involves adding other compounds/steroids to mix for 10-14 weeks then going back to a low dose test for 8+ weeks. As I get older I'll just opt for test only while keeping oestrogen in check with an AI.

There are other test booster on the market that don't have the potential to shut you down. Search for SARMs (Selective Androgen Re-uptake Modulators) these are classified as a research chemical but are easily sourced in the US. A good source of info is isarms.com if you're dead set on stopping the therapy these will assist you while your body attempts to return to normal. In your circumstances I'd be looking at Ostarine (MK-2866) and or Testalon (RAD 140). I'm not advocating the use of research chemicals in any shape or form I can give you my personal experience using them tho. You will potentially however even with medical help have a difficult recovery period.

I'm aware that sourcing testosterone in the UK is far easier than in the US, but there are ways if that's a route you wish to follow.

Feel free to PM me.

The Health Service in the UK say there are cancer risks to testosterone treatment and they will not supply.

 

[JackDoff]

The Health Service in the UK say there are cancer risks to testosterone treatment and they will not supply.

Not entirely sure that's true mate I know a couple of older guys down my gym that are prescribed nebido - plus there are ways around the risk. We all enter into puberty with masses of test in our system can't see how exogenous test at moderate doses will alter any health risks, especially if monitored, which it should be.

That said I know the NHS would rather eat glass than go down the route of endocrinologists with a male patient but if a female goes thru menopause she's on HRT straight away. They seem reluctant to admit that men suffer the same only called andropause. Cost has no doubt something to do with it.

 

[RamblingCock]

And it should be noted that there are cancer risks associated with just about everything. As the old punch line goes: "Saliva has been found to be fatal, but only if swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time."

I think Jack's comment is likely the true point: it's too expensive. I have, for the next week or so, gold-level insurance through my previous employer. (Going on Obamacare shortly, and thank God that was an option given our pre-existing conditions.) I have a cialis prescription - more for fun than necessity now that the T has kicked in. Don't tell my doctor. It was $60 for eight tablets three months ago. Yesterday the pharmacy informed me the insurance changed and it's $180 now. That's just my co-pay. Obviously I told them not to fill it.

I've got T-gel which I'm starting in two weeks. This Friday is my last shot unless the new insurance covers it.

 

[JackDoff]

Hope your insurance covers it mate. Can't believe the prices in the US. Over here in the UK I can buy 10 cialis for £10 that's about $13. I've always got a stash of them for weekends away and just for keeping blood pressure in check - gives great muscle pumps in the gym. Viagra is the same price and double strength a mere £12. Black market of course but online pharmacies are still way cheaper than there.

I can get 10ml vial of sustanon for £20-25 that's 10 weeks of 250mg per week for less than the price of a beer each week, that's the reason I cross into the grey area of our law. Test for life!

Good luck with your insurance RC hope it comes good for you.

 

[marinera]

When you stop esogenous testosterone, you'll have a crash - low libido, erectyle disfunction and all' the symptoms of hypogonadism. Slowly your body Will likely start producing Again testosterone, but It could require several months. I would do two things If permanent TRT is not an option: taper testosterone, go down ti say 50 mg per week; After a couple of weeks star taking clomid - It is a not expensive drug. Start with 25mg/day, then After a week drop to 25mg eod. After 6 weeks of clomid take Blood analysis to see where free T level are. also if possibile alternate clomid with nolvadex, 1 month each. Nolva is cheap too. T level Will likely come back higher than before, hard to tell how many weeks needed. once The level are normal clomid Will not bè needed for months.

 

[Dutchstud]

In the Netherlands
4 tablets of 100mg Sildenafil (Viagra) costs around € 25,-- in the official pharmacy (doctor's prescription needed)
28 tablets of 5mg Tadalafil (Cialis) costs around € 60,-- in the official pharmacy (doctor's prescription needed)
4 tablets of 10mg Vardenafil (Levitra) costs around € 75,-- in the official pharmacy (doctor's prescription needed)

These are the official prices, not that cheap for getting a boner, but in no way comparable to the idiotic prices in the USA!
Note: I am talking about the official stuff, from an official pharmacist, not the fake trash sold on the net.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

...And it should be noted that there are cancer risks associated with just about everything. As the old punch line goes: "Saliva has been found to be fatal, but only if swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time."...

I had a long talk with my primary care physician about prostate cancer (both of my brothers have been diagnosed with it) and he said that most men will develop prostate cancer at some point in their life. It's just a fact of life. Out of that group that will develop it, very few will die from it.

I'm not concerned about it too much and I primarily asked him about it because I was curious about the risks of using supplemental T. (Prostate cancer is one of the most commonly quoted side-effects but I'm not sure there is statistically significant proof of that or that the causal link has been irrefutably established.) An article from NPR (and Kaiser Health, which may not be 100% objective) talks about the risks and you can view that here.

I'm planning on getting tested at a men's clinic this coming year. My primary care physician said he didn't see any evidence or hear any complaints from me that made him think I might have low T and was reluctant to order up the test. He's a good doctor but I do roll my eyes sometimes.

 

[thickmike6969]

This is a serious question. I'm male, in my fifties. After having my testosterone drop well below what is considered normal for guys my urologist put me on t-shots, which I have been receiving bi-weekly for the last six months. It's worked wonders, and I'm very, very happy we did this. He's moving me onto gel now.

However: One of the side-effects of getting testosterone supplements is that your own system essentially decides that if someone else is going to do it, then there's no need for your own body to continue its own production. Your balls shrink a bit as a result, but I'll gladly take the harder penis and better orgasms any time.

My question is this, and it's for anyone who has either gone through this or is a medical professional: If you stop taking the shots or getting the supplements, does the body resume production or will you simply suffer a drop back -- probably below what was a previous very low level.

I am working out and improving my physical condition as a result of feeling much stronger, which ought to improve my t-production I would think.

(My insurance is changing, and there's a possibility I may need to pay for the treatment out of my own pocket.)

Anyone with actual experience is asked to reply. And thanks!

If you quit cold turkey you will crash. How long this crash will last is different for everyone. At your age your natural T levels will never be high again. Especially not anywhere close to the boost you felt while on. You will definitely be worse than before you ever started for a bit. You will also lose most of the improved physical condition you gained. Sad truth I'm afraid. Youll probably NEVER want to be without the test shots ever again. Also Androgel is nowhere near as effective as T shots. Not even close. 1 CC of blackmarket test per week if all else fail will do the job too. And Test is cheap. shouldn't cost you more than $40 per month

 

[BrentFoust]

Your doctor must have prescribed you testosterone supplements only after judging benefits and risks. After treatment with supplements, you can maintain your testosterone levels by consuming testosterone boosting foods such as low-fat milk, eggs, oysters, shellfish, etc.