Texas miracle?

B_VinylBoy

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Guess what bro, I'm not a rich kid. My parents have money, I'm broke as shit. How ignorant can you be to imply, without knowing me, that my parents are not working class?

First off, I'm not ignorant. Watch your tongue around me. Secondly, I never once implied that I was talking about you in my post. Pay attention to context once in a while. You provided a scenario and I used it to illustrate a problem we have within social classes when it comes to education. Nothing more and nothing less. Ask around... if I wanted to talk about you specifically, I'd have no problem doing such a thing.

The money that has trickled down from grandparents grandparents that have bought land, businesses, and paid for generations of education were not paid for with much blood, sweat, and hard work. The ability to make sound decisions, put in long hours, and be fiscally responsible is one that is available to EVERYONE!

Not everyone, especially those who are born in poverty with no viable means to escape it. But whatever... I won't even bother wasting my time trying to illustrate how that works because your near-sighted staunchness towards society and how it really operates will prevent you from accepting it.

I was being entirely facetious about tax breaks funding my education. It was entirely my parents money.

Kinda hard to tell sometimes when people are intentionally lying around here. You're new so I gave you the benefit of a doubt. However, I'll make a special note of your facetiousness next time. :rolleyes:

So, I really can't say we swing from the government tit. We might fill it up so others can drink.

As much as you want to act as if there's some magical species of man that is totally independent of government and doesn't rely on them in any shape or form in this country, there isn't one. Not even your family members are the exception. Government dependency doesn't just end with Welfare and entitlement programs. It begins with the road you ride on to get to wherever you want to go. It continues with the police force that will come to your house if you're being robbed (and you don't have time to get to your gun and practice those 2nd Amendment Remedies) and the fire department who will come to your place and try to save your personal belongings from burning up in a towering inferno. Need I tell you that they made sure the food you ate today didn't have diseases? That your mail gets to your door? Should I go on?

You seriously want to try and hide behind some meager level of financial success to suggest that you're not dependent on government in any shape or form? LOL!!! Unless you're making your own roads to drive or walk on, paying your own private security firm to protect your house, have a well on site so that you can use a line of volunteers at your own financial peril to put out a fire, running your own bio labs to check the food you hunted down before cooking and consuming it, and are getting all of your porno magazines via FedEX, you are swinging off the government tit just like everyone else. Some may need to do that more than others, but that's not any indicator to use when trying to determine who is the better person. So don't play yourself.

I don't know what you're saying about brick city, idk what that is.

Look it up in the Urban Dictionary one day.
Or listen to a Redman album. I'd suggest the latter if you like Hip-Hop.

Also, keep in mind, that a couple hundred or so years ago, we were ALL poor. As dirt. And everyone's education sucked. Some people just chose to put in the effort to rise from that.

Not everyone who came to this country were poor. That is, unless, you think everyone who came here did so as slaves from Africa. But I digress, of course. Not everyone's education sucked either. Mine certainly didn't. And I'm knowledgable enough to know that despite my own successes there are people out there that work twice as hard as I have yet don't have nearly what I've been able to amass for myself. That keeps me humble. Unfortunately, humility tends to get lost around here especially during politics discussion.

But again... whatever.
 
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Horrible

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First off, I'm not ignorant. Watch your tongue around me. Secondly, I never once implied that I was talking about you in my post. Pay attention to context once in a while. You provided a scenario and I used it to illustrate a problem we have within social classes when it comes to education. Nothing more and nothing less. Ask around... if I wanted to talk about you specifically, I'd have no problem doing such a thing.

seemed like a reply to what I had written, but whatever.

Not everyone, especially those who are born in poverty with no viable means to escape it. But whatever... I won't even bother wasting my time trying to illustrate how that works because your near-sighted staunchness towards society and how it really operates will prevent you from accepting it.

yes, everyone has the means to escape poverty, and I do not mean through theft and illegal means, but by hard work. My near sighted staunchness aside, black is black and white is white.

Kinda hard to tell sometimes when people are intentionally lying around here. You're new so I gave you the benefit of a doubt. However, I'll make a special note of your facetiousness next time. :rolleyes:

It can be hard to impart tone and inflection through text sometimes. I havent mastered all of the smiley face emoticons.

As much as you want to act as if there's some magical species of man that is totally independent of government and doesn't rely on them in any shape or form in this country, there isn't one. Not even your family members are the exception. Government dependency doesn't just end with Welfare and entitlement programs. It begins with the road you ride on to get to wherever you want to go. It continues with the police force that will come to your house if you're being robbed (and you don't have time to get to your gun and practice those 2nd Amendment Remedies) and the fire department who will come to your place and try to save your personal belongings from burning up in a towering inferno. Need I tell you that they made sure the food you ate today didn't have diseases? That your mail gets to your door? Should I go on?

I pay taxes for the roads I drive on. Police protection? Man, I live in Texas, the average citizen here has more ordnance than most police departments. The fire department argument is plausible, but allow me to reference you to the fact that I pay taxes. The "I pay taxes" statement applies also to the FDA and the USPS.

You seriously want to try and hide behind some meager level of financial success to suggest that you're not dependent on government in any shape or form? LOL!!! Unless you're making your own roads to drive or walk on, paying your own private security firm to protect your house, have a well on site so that you can use a line of volunteers at your own financial peril to put out a fire, running your own bio labs to check the food you hunted down before cooking and consuming it, and are getting all of your porno magazines via FedEX, you are swinging off the government tit just like everyone else. Some may need to do that more than others, but that's not any indicator to use when trying to determine who is the better person. So don't play yourself.

When did I say I was independent of the government? I said I was not feeding from the teat. It was not an attempt to illustrate that I am better than anyone, it was only to show you that I am not reliant on government assistance to survive.

Look it up in the Urban Dictionary one day.
Or listen to a Redman album. I'd suggest the latter if you like Hip-Hop.

This, Ill have to do.

Not everyone who came to this country were poor. That is, unless, you think everyone who came here did so as slaves from Africa. But I digress, of course. Not everyone's education sucked either. Mine certainly didn't. And I'm knowledgable enough to know that despite my own successes there are people out there that work twice as hard as I have yet don't have nearly what I've been able to amass for myself. That keeps me humble. Unfortunately, humility tends to get lost around here especially during politics discussion.

You are right, not everyone was entirely poor. Most were, my family did not come here from Norway and Scotland loaded, the were decidedly poor, but proud. Just look where hard work, perseverance and intelligence can get you.

But again... whatever.

Exactly.
 

B_VinylBoy

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I actually do physical labor for a living, and my personal net worth is barely in 6 figures. Only 2 of my vehicles are less than 3 years old. True, my parents paid for grade school, and college. But my toys, and my fun is funded through my own heavily taxed paycheck. So, an attempt to discredit my gains by saying that I have not worked for what I've got would be foolhardy at best. The point I was trying to convey, was just that we all started from the same starting line. And anything I or my family has is a product of hard work. When did Americans start being persecuted for ambition and perseverance?

When people mistake ambition and perseverance for greed and self indulgence. And many do this very thing in this country.

Also, when much of your options are determined based on where you're born and how wealthy (or not) your family is, to suggest that we all start from the same "starting line" is also disingenuous. We can easily compare the lives of two different children, who are born into families of the same size with parents that collectively make the same working class salary, where one grows up in a suburb and the other grows up in a crime ridden city, and illustrate these differences. Sadly, nobody wants to pay attention to any of these details and THAT is part of the major problem.

Case in point... did anyone here had to go through a metal detector to get into their school? Anyone had to commute two hours to and fro to get there since the elementary level? Lived under the fear of being shot in their own home through gang related crossfire? Grew up in a neighborhood where there are more liquor stores & churches per capita than youth centers and health clinics? Seriously, I could go on for days about this.

yes, everyone has the means to escape poverty, and I do not mean through theft and illegal means, but by hard work. My near sighted staunchness aside, black is black and white is white.

Ummmm... not exactly. For every person that is out there who works hard, there is another person who works twice as hard and doesn't have anything to show for it. It is not enough to give the rhetorical speech about "working hard" when people are not willing to look at an individual's plight and figure out what is exactly preventing them from making the progress they need to succeed. I lived in a poverty stricken 'hood and went to school all my life in a richer suburb (a major culture clash since the age of six), so I experienced firsthand how two people can be forced to grow up with two entirely different set of priorities in order to survive. I know teenagers who had to drop out of school to get a job because a parental figure died and the remaining parent couldn't sustain their home in the projects just off his or her own yearly income. I know others who can't seek out extracurricular activities to broaden their career aspects because if they didn't get home by a certain hour they could become a victim of gang violence. My own nieces and nephews seemingly lose friends almost every year to the streets, some just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Things like this will change your view on life instantly.

When did I say I was independent of the government? I said I was not feeding from the teat. It was not an attempt to illustrate that I am better than anyone, it was only to show you that I am not reliant on government assistance to survive.

We all are to some degree, and there's no way around this. Like I said before, reliance on government doesn't end with Welfare and entitlement programs. What some adults say about "living off the teat" is the same type of childish taunt kids in the 'hood would tell one another when playing the dozens.

"Your mama is on Welfare! She needs food stamps! She can't afford you new clothes!"

It is nothing more than a cloaked insult invoking superiority based on financial status. Doesn't matter how it's reworded to try and sound moralistic.
 
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Horrible

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I'm gonna say, that compared to the president and some others that are declared running on the republican ticket, Perry is looking damned good! Jon Greenspon doesn't look too bad, but he'll never make it. Mitt Romney doesn't look too bad either. But, it really doesn't matter, the next president will spend his entire term unfucking everything.

That is, even if they felt so inclined.
 

atlclgurl

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I actually do physical labor for a living, and my personal net worth is barely in 6 figures.

That's a pretty healthy bank account for someone who does manual labor for a living... most laborers are scraping by on ten bucks an hour. What's the trick to getting to over 100K in "personal net worth"? (I presume you're not counting your house... if you own one.)
 

B_VinylBoy

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Look like Gov. Perry is going to throw his hat into the ring! I wish him well!

It was pretty much set in stone when Gingrich's crew abandoned him a month or so ago, and many of them went to go and "convince" Perry to enter the race. There are also a bunch of other small factors we can put into place (such as Palin's "impromptu" appearance in the same state and on the same day that Romney announced his candidacy and proceeded to criticize and attack him), plus records indicate that he's got a LOT of money already generated to run... and will definitely get more once he verbally makes it official this weekend.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. And to be honest, I think it comes down to Romney vs. Perry at this point. All the others looking for the GOP candidacy should just step aside.
 

vince

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I always give everyone the benefit of doubt- I doubt their words are accurately what they had in mind when thinking it up, because a speechwriter probably wrote it...
If you read it, you own it. Doesn't matter if it's what you believe or not.


Anyhow. 300 million odd citizens and this is the best they can come up with? :frown:
 

AllHazzardi

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If you read it, you own it. Doesn't matter if it's what you believe or not.


Anyhow. 300 million odd citizens and this is the best they can come up with? :frown:

Really so... When can I expect you to hand over your password because I read your account name?

That's a pretty quick fail for a standard. The only one who owns the speech is the guy who's got the author credit- the speechwriter. Odds are the one reading it didn't consider every possible way the audience could misconstrue his words. So really very little fault lies in the politician if they're all puppets anyway.

It's not that out of 300,000,000 citizens nobody has a good idea. It's that the person with the good idea is probably a nobody that not one politician would listen to.
 

vince

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Really so... When can I expect you to hand over your password because I read your account name?
That's a pretty quick fail for a standard. The only one who owns the speech is the guy who's got the author credit- the speechwriter. Odds are the one reading it didn't consider every possible way the audience could misconstrue his words. So really very little fault lies in the politician if they're all puppets anyway.

It's not that out of 300,000,000 citizens nobody has a good idea. It's that the person with the good idea is probably a nobody that not one politician would listen to.
The word "own" was used metaphorically. I wasn't talking about who actually has the copywrite of the speech. Sorry if you missed that, but I doubt that you did. As you wrote-
I always give everyone the benefit of doubt- I doubt their words are accurately what they had in mind when thinking it up
It doesn't work that way in politics for several reasons. If a politician gives a speech (reads it out load), it is assumed that the concepts, proposals, or opinions expressed are his own. It doesn't matter who actually penned the speech. Most of them hire professional scribes to write their speeches, but the process is that they instruct the writer on the subject and the points to make and they review it before giving it. If it is a major speech, they may go back and forth several times with re-writes.

If the politician has no idea what he or she is reading, then they are not worthy of any respect or any votes. It could be that some are just mindless autonomic puppets, but that is beside the point. If they give a speech then they have to answer for it.

It would make for interesting press conferences:
Q- "Mr. President, in your speech yesterday, you stated that job creation should be the number one priority for America and that a further 500 billion dollars should be earmarked for an addition stimulus package. Mr. President, how do you propose to pay for that proposal? Will you be asking Congress to approve tax increases in your next budget?

A- "I don't know. Did I say that? Really? Just a minute... let's get my speechwriter up here to answer your questions, because it sounds like a stupid idea to me too."

 

dandelion

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Q- "Mr. President, in your speech yesterday, you stated that job creation should be the number one priority for America and that a further 500 billion dollars should be earmarked for an addition stimulus package. Mr. President, how do you propose to pay for that proposal? Will you be asking Congress to approve tax increases in your next budget?

A- "I don't know. Did I say that? Really? Just a minute... let's get my speechwriter up here to answer your questions, because it sounds like a stupid idea to me too."

So you imagine someone is going to work hard at bringing about something they said but do not believe? A more likely result would seem to be the kind of compromise congress has produced now where both sides claim to want something but neither sticks to it. The US seems to be driving into the dust because neither side will properly stick to its claimed ideals. The ideals never truly get tested so no one ever sees whether they are brilliant or disaster. So another 10 years of drift...
 
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AllHazzardi

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So you imagine someone is going to work hard at bringing about something they said but do not believe? A more likely result would seem to be the kind of compromise congress has produced now where both sides claim to want something but neither sticks to it. The US seems to be driving into the dust because neither side will properly stick to its claimed ideals. The ideals never truly get tested so no one ever sees whether they are brilliant or disaster. So another 10 years of drift...

More like another 1 year of RIFT.... to show the gray area in between- Wouldn't it be a good show stopper if for once a total independent wins? After all, both sides are pushing away from each other, eventually a crack forms. Whoever it is steering events will likely try to fill that crack with a golden truth, and that golden truth will probably be so simple nobody would want to argue it lest they shoot themselves in the foot.

You could say, "keep dreaming", and I'd say- maybe that's the point of my existence. The world left behind the idealists, the philosophers, and the spiritualists, so they could form together as one and kick everyone up while they're down and in the dumps and gutter.




To vince: my point was shown in an intentionally displayed misconception, which is all disagreement turns into in the end. The guy who is the politician had an IDEA... and the idea was likely JUST RIGHT... in the translation from idea to text to speech to announcement, 3 transitions is enough to scramble it far from the original intention, unless he's literally sitting next to the speechwriter and working with him to find JUST the RIGHT words to build his idea from scratches on a pad.

In my book it's all amiss anyway, a game, to show what happens when you DON'T co-operate.
 

cruztbone

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what destroyed Reagan was Alzheimers. he got it when he joined the GOP. so , youre wrong again, enzia 35.
As to Perry, he also advocated that Texas leave the union. but we wont get that lucky. and no, we dont need their oil. we have enough in the other parts of the nation and the world to handle dwindling demand. thank you public transit and clean energy alternatives.
 

Mensch1351

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Actually pal, I'm a product of the wonderful tax breaks given to my wealthy parents by our wonderful governor/president the illustrious mr. Bush that allowed my education to be given to me by wonderful private institutions. :)

No wonder you might find it so difficult to walk in somebody else's shoes!! You DO realize that you're one of the 2% right? And what that means is that you are totally out of touch with how the "other" 98% oftentimes barely scrape by to make ends meet!! So much for an America without an aristocracy!!:rolleyes: