Thank you MADAME ZORA!

Hatched69

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Stronzo said:
We've not been at war.

But I will refer you back to JustAsking's perfectly insightful post regarding the rise of this sort of blind patriotism as represented in Ms. Wilson's little ditty there.

It's indicative of a very scary trend at shutting up people who don't agree with the "mom, apple pie, and flag-waving" brand of neo-patriotism we've seen rear it's nasty head since the events of 9/11.

This bears repeating:



It's real and do not fail to acknowledge what happened during the McCarthy period he references as well ... There's nothing new under the sun and the cyclical theory of history applies here.

I don't deny that at all. Some people take it too far, as I've mentioned before. It's just a matter of how people are expressing themselves that no one can agree on. It's a different view from each point in America, but that's the diversity that makes up America. I drive from my home in Indiana to Nashville quite often and see things from a whole different perspective just in that small trip, but it only makes me smile.
 

B_Stronzo

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I agree.

I agree that this chick ought to be precisely as admonished as Natalie Maines was for her statement in London. Hell Wilson's marketing a career on her opinion. Natalie only said she thought Bush was a douche bag.

Equal treament. It only makes me smile.
 

Hatched69

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Stronzo said:
I agree.

I agree that this chick ought to be precisely as admonished as Natalie Maines was for her statement in London. Hell Wilson's marketing a career on her opinion. Natalie only said she thought Bush was a douche bag.

Equal treament. It only makes me smile.

Hmm. You're thinking like me now.....what happened?:confused:

The only thing I didn't like was that Maines did her stunt on foreign soil. Her opinion is as valid as anyone else's....
 

Hatched69

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Stronzo said:
For the record?

Hatched.. I've stated many times my loathing for Hip Hop and Rap music and I've taken a fair share of heat for that opinion here. So I'm an equal opportunity snob .. if in fact that's truly what I am.

Just saw this post, and being new here, I haven't had time to review old posts concerning such things. I don't particularly care for hip-hop, rap, shoe-in-the-dryer music either, but it's part of culture now and it's not going away anytime soon.

At least we agree on that?:smile:
 

rob_just_rob

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Stronzo said:
For the record?

Hatched.. I've stated many times my loathing for Hip Hop and Rap music and I've taken a fair share of heat for that opinion here. So I'm an equal opportunity snob .. if in fact that's truly what I am.

I like music that is either well crafted, or makes a point and makes it intelligently. Ms Wilson's does not. Plenty of hip-hop and rap does.

That's my music snobbery.
 

JustAsking

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JustAsking said:
Haha, no but that is a good answer. What happens is that you get your job back, your spouse or SO comes back, your dog comes back to life, and you stop drinking.
But with this Gretchen Wilson song, we can add to the list. In addition to the items above, when you play a C&W song backwards you:

- Respect the Constitution
- Advocate for individual rights.
- Seek an education and understanding of the complexity of domestic and global world situations.
- Hold our government accountable for its actions if you disapprove of them.
- Realize that you are here to be a blessing to the world.
 

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rob_just_rob said:
I like music that is either well crafted, or makes a point and makes it intelligently. Ms Wilson's does not. Plenty of hip-hop and rap does.

Yes I'm sure that's true rob.

It's just that the anger of its beat (mostly the rap) and repetition of aggressive stance is something my ears and eyes cannot abide long enough to find that 'intelligence'.
 

madame_zora

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Stronzo, you hit upon one of my most beloved subjects. With all the horseshit I write, I congratulate you for finding that one.

Ugh, the title of that song made me shudder before I even *tried* to make myself watch it. The token black preacher was nice and there was an *almost* Mexican guy in the shadows, but other than that it just looked like a bunch of propaganda with very little point. Politically UNcorrect- I'll alert Bill Maher's people right away.:rolleyes:

This kind of reminds me of Jewel's interview after her poetry book was released- I wish I could remember who it was with. Anyway, the dude challenged her about using the word "casualty" when she meant "casualness"- not even remotely the same meaning! Why do idiots feel the need to express themselves in words when grunts and hand gestures would suit them better?
 

madame_zora

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JustAsking said:
Thats right, if they had just kept quiet about it no one would have known anything about our foreign policy and everyone around the world would still like us. Damn those Chicks!

Haha, unlike US, the rest of the world isn't being fed constant propaganda on how great we are- they know we suck already. The only people being fooled by our false patriotism are the backwoods inbred bastards that STILL support this administration despite the overwhelming evidence of its misdeeds, warcrimes, erosion of civil rights and perversion of religion. The Dixie Chicks be damned, they were hardly saying anything "on foreign soil" that the rest of the world can't clearly see for themselves. They made a statement based on the fact the THEY did not want to be associated with that slime, I don't either. Kudos to them for having the balls to use their fame to make a statement that not all Americans DO agree with our horrible foreign policies.

Hatched, did you ever hear the term "black listing". Look it up under McCarthyism sometime when you get a chance. It has to do with the government manipulating the public into a nationalistic frenzy about hateful enemies in our midst, implying that you are either "with us or agin us" in the war against them, and then letting the public ruin people's careers out of nationalistic outrage. Yes people voted with their $$ in the early 50s and ruined the careers of quite a few people. It was one of the most hateful shame filled episodes in our recent history.

Well, at least until the historians write about the bush years, part deux.
The part that most often frightens me about the "for or agin" arguments is that so many times, they disregard the possibility that more than two options exist, which is absurd. The actual problem is that they don't know a) what the Bible says, how or when it was written and assimilated, how Christianity progressed through the years and under whose direction, b) what the Constitution says, why inalienable rights are worth fighting for, even though our forefathers would be aghast that we are even having this crisis- no doubt they felt they had made themselves clear on this point c) what the issues are about, who is being affected and why, and (my personal favorite) d) since this is generally the "less-thinking" portion of the population, they are frequently incapable of seeing anything beyond the surface presentation, so they just won't catch anything that requires one to store knowledge to compare it to new information, thus making what is known as an informed decision. Example- bush claiming to be a Christian. Other than proclaiming "Lord, lord" on tv, on what would one base such an assessment? I can claim to be an architect, but that hardly makes it so.

This is clearly just a new and improved stab at McCarthyism, but to your "average" dashboard dog, saying something like that makes you a conspiracy theorist.

There is nothing uglier than blind nationalism at the expense of the world except blind religious zealotry at the expense of the world.

Good work, quotable and short. If you don't run for a political office, perhaps you'd consider Messiah?
 

SurferGirlCA

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madame_zora said:
...The Dixie Chicks be damned, they were hardly saying anything "on foreign soil" that the rest of the world can't clearly see for themselves. They made a statement based on the fact the THEY did not want to be associated with that slime, I don't either. Kudos to them for having the balls to use their fame to make a statement that not all Americans DO agree with our horrible foreign policies...
Keying off of MZ's comments, I just want to mention an upcoming documentary on this brouhaha called Dixie Chicks - Shut Up And Sing. It was directed by Barbara Koppel (some other credits of hers are Harlan County, USA; American Dream; and the oddly fascinating The Hamptons tv series a few years ago). Any way, a friend of mine snuck me into a screening of this film yesterday and it's very compelling. It's less political than you might think, more a character study.

It's basically a look at the past 3 years or so in the lives/careers of the Dixie Chicks, since the infamous remark onstage in London. It covers a wide arc, from various pregnancies to the death threats that followed them on their last tour. I was really struck by the fact that a) outside of VH1: Behind The Music et al, I don't remember ever seeing a documentary film about a female band/music group and I've seen a ton of them on male/male-led groups. That's not meant as a feminist aside. I was actually just startled to see how the female energy infused a lot of the backstage goings-on; not better or worse, just different in some ways b) the irony that while we're off fighting in Iraq to bring the freedoms we enjoy to that oppressed people (reading from the Defense Department's publicity dispatch), here at home there are people who apparently don't think those freedoms are worth very much (if you disagree with them any way).

I'm including a link about the film as it prepares to open the Toronto Film Festival, but apparently it will have its U.S. premiere at the AFI Film Festival in L.A. in November. If you're outside of Toronto/L.A., it's already been picked up for distribution by The Weinstein Company.

http://www.e.bell.ca/filmfest/2006/media_centre/news_releaseItem.asp?id=219

To sorta kinda bring this post back around to the thread, all I can say is I doubt that Gretchen Wilson and the DChicks will be touring together any time soon. :smile:
 
T

that_other_guy

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madame_zora said:
This kind of reminds me of Jewel's interview after her poetry book was released- I wish I could remember who it was with. Anyway, the dude challenged her about using the word "casualty" when she meant "casualness"- not even remotely the same meaning !

I remember that interview ... it was on MTV with Kurt Loder

and *Taa Daa* here is a link: MTV News - Jewel, Kurt Loder Square Off On Poetic License
 

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Bemoan and lament it all you want. The fact of the matter is Joe average sets policy. Liberal elites, college professors, minority activists, etc., shouting him down and calling him stupid only forces him to circle the wagons.

Befriending, understanding, educating and leading him is the only viable path.
 

SpeedoGuy

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Shelby said:


Befriending, understanding, educating and leading him is the only viable path.

Possibly, but pandering to Joe Sixpack's fears and prejudices works much faster. I mean, how is anyone going to understand, let alone educate, a culture that takes pride in celebrating ignorance as a virtue?

A good portion of the target audience still believes Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks, ya know.
 

madame_zora

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that_other_guy said:
I remember that interview ... it was on MTV with Kurt Loder

and *Taa Daa* here is a link: MTV News - Jewel, Kurt Loder Square Off On Poetic License

Haha, thanks for that, I'm old and my memory sucks. Poetic license would have been a fine answer if it were not obviously untrue. Had she intended to say it, fine. Since she clearly didn't know she'd done something wrong- no sale.



Still waiting to hear if JA will run for messiah, of some sort.:biggrin1: