That's One Way To Handle Financial Crimes

wallyj84

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China Sentences Ex-Chairman of Hengfeng Bank to Death

Long story short, a white collar criminal is getting the death penalty in China. I don't like the death penalty, but I do wonder if things would be a little bit better if we had harsher crimes for white collar criminals. Would the financial crisis have happened if those criminal bankers were in danger of being put to death for their fraud?

What do you guys think of this?
 
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If it's one thing I can get behind, it's the execution of white collar criminals. Wall Street crime has done more damage to society and country than anything else, so I'm all for it. Of course, the country is run (and always will be run) by white collar criminals, so that'll never happen.

Preferably crucified on telephone poles in public view, like in The Stand.
 

ArtAppreciation

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I think it’s quite apparent that a lot of money is being paid by these con artists to ensure they avoid much (if any) jail time. And the fines? Give me a break.
They’ve ruined entire families.
Things absolutely need to change.
F3ED551E-83A6-4B57-A547-487F6F727DCF.gif
 

seventiesdemon

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Death sentence....don't know about that....for that to happen you would have to prove to me 100% the law system...well justice system supposedly, is not corrupted also. And the chances of anyone doing that is 0 to None I'm afraid....

I don't trust any system in a place where people just disappear even more.

Seen way to much injustice, judgement by media, judgement by mob mind in my time to know... if there is ever a mistake made..........it's very rare anyone raises a hand to accept responsibility...

If you're 100% convinced.........remove a few fingers...whatever....and much of the time...it's someone's own greed they find themselves being easily fooled or led by conmen.

Greed will usually prey on Greed.......
 
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TexanStar

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China Sentences Ex-Chairman of Hengfeng Bank to Death

Long story short, a white collar criminal is getting the death penalty in China. I don't like the death penalty, but I do wonder if things would be a little bit better if we had harsher crimes for white collar criminals. Would the financial crisis have happened if those criminal bankers were in danger of being put to death for their fraud?

What do you guys think of this?

I'm opposed to the death penalty in general.

But I don't otherwise take issue with its application for white collar crimes as well, they're just as capable of destroying people's lives.
 

EagleCowboy

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You guys are not thinking about this properly. Death penalty is totally not necessary. Upon conviction, force them to work at extreme hard physical labor for 16/hrs a day 7 days/wk at minimum wage until everyone they've stolen from is paid back. If they die from exhaustion, oh well.
 
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NCbear

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You guys are not thinking about this properly. Death penalty is totally not necessary. Upon conviction, force them to work at extreme hard physical labor for 16/hrs a day 7 days/wk at minimum wage until everyone they've stolen from is paid back. If they die from exhaustion, oh well.

Below minimum wage.

The punishment must fit the crime.

NCbear (who is frankly amazed that the 1% is still alive [and without pitchfork holes], considering how they've kept wages artificially low for decades)
 
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Below minimum wage.

The punishment must fit the crime.

NCbear (who is frankly amazed that the 1% is still alive [and without pitchfork holes], considering how they've kept wages artificially low for decades)
The one-percenters have the best security and stay hidden from the public. Otherwise, they might well have ended up like Mussolini; lynched in the streets.
 
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NCbear

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The one-percenters have the best security and stay hidden from the public. Otherwise, they might well have ended up like Mussolini; lynched in the streets.

This reminds me of my one visit to Managua, the capital of Nicaragua. The most surprising thing wasn't the chicken coop three blocks from the gorgeous Beaux Arts opera house, or the concrete house with no windows/doors/floor at a major intersection only about 15 blocks from the downtown area, or the concertina wire atop the fence surrounding the (for rich people only) "Holiday Inn" (basically, about the level of a Days Inn in the USA).

No, the most surprising thing was when I was at a park at the top of a mountain ridge overlooking the city, enjoying the view, and I asked about a compound, protected by gun-carrying soldiers, with walls about 15 feet high, that I could see a few miles away on the slope of the next ridge. I was told, cheerfully, "that's a neighborhood." I said, "No, that's a rural compound. There are no other houses around it, it's obviously several miles way away from any urban area, and it's protected by soldiers. That's not a neighborhood. Who lives there?" The response, still with a cheerful smile and tone: "No, here that's a neighborhood. The richest people in Nicaragua live there."

I inquired about how they lived. I was told that they rarely left their homes except under police or security escort in armored vehicles, and that their servants typically drove down to the market to shop for them. They tended to spend their time in Managua watching satellite TV and reading books and socializing among themselves (there looked to be a total of maybe 30 houses in the walled "neighborhood" on the side of the mountain). They took every opportunity to travel outside the country to escape their boring life in their home country.

This was in 2012.

No matter how rich I thought I was or wanted to be, I wouldn't want to be caged up like that, in daily fear of my life and unable to enjoy my wealth. That's no way to live.

NCbear (who thinks the priorities of rich folks in banana republics are skewed; yes, they deserve their daily fear, but I feel sorry for them due to their utter wrongheadedness)
 
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This reminds me of my one visit to Managua, the capital of Nicaragua. The most surprising thing wasn't the chicken coop three blocks from the gorgeous Beaux Arts opera house, or the concrete house with no windows/doors/floor at a major intersection only about 15 blocks from the downtown area, or the concertina wire atop the fence surrounding the (for rich people only) "Holiday Inn" (basically, about the level of a Days Inn in the USA).

No, the most surprising thing was when I was at a park at the top of a mountain ridge overlooking the city, enjoying the view, and I asked about a compound, protected by gun-carrying soldiers, with walls about 15 feet high, that I could see a few miles away on the slope of the next ridge. I was told, cheerfully, "that's a neighborhood." I said, "No, that's a rural compound. There are no other houses around it, it's obviously several miles way away from any urban area, and it's protected by soldiers. That's not a neighborhood. Who lives there?" The response, still with a cheerful smile and tone: "No, here that's a neighborhood. The richest people in Nicaragua live there."

I inquired about how they lived. I was told that they rarely left their homes except under police or security escort in armored vehicles, and that their servants typically drove down to the market to shop for them. They tended to spend their time in Managua watching satellite TV and reading books and socializing among themselves (there looked to be a total of maybe 30 houses in the walled "neighborhood" on the side of the mountain). They took every opportunity to travel outside the country to escape their boring life in their home country.

This was in 2012.

No matter how rich I thought I was or wanted to be, I wouldn't want to be caged up like that, in daily fear of my life and unable to enjoy my wealth. That's no way to live.

NCbear (who thinks the priorities of rich folks in banana republics are skewed; yes, they deserve their daily fear, but I feel sorry for them due to their utter wrongheadedness)
I suppose that's the price they pay for grinding their collective boot on the necks of the plebeian populace. Sort of a Faustian bargain, you might say.
 

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I suppose that's the price they pay for grinding their collective boot on the necks of the plebeian populace. Sort of a Faustian bargain, you might say.

I agree.

It's just--well, damn. Who'd want to live like that, even wealthy? Or as the price to pay for being wealthy? Honestly, that's no kind of life.

NCbear (who thinks "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" pretty much encapsulates the kind of existence I'd like to have)
 
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englad

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I think the main reason why the financial crisis happened was heavy deregulation, if the checks and balances that used to be there had been in place, it wouldn't have happened. I think white collar criminals always think they'll get away with it. It's the likelihood of getting caught that puts criminals off, not the severity of the punishment itself. I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but appropriation of all their assets by the government, a revocation of their licence to trade and life imprisonment are completely justifiable. We're all still living in the shadow of the crash, and those wankers got off completely scot free, justice and vengeance are both required in spades.
 
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I think the main reason why the financial crisis happened was heavy deregulation, if the checks and balances that used to be there had been in place, it wouldn't have happened. I think white collar criminals always think they'll get away with it. It's the likelihood of getting caught that puts criminals off, not the severity of the punishment itself. I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but appropriation of all their assets by the government, a revocation of their licence to trade and life imprisonment are completely justifiable. We're all still living in the shadow of the crash, and those wankers got off completely scot free, justice and vengeance are both required in spades.
I can see where permanent incarceration would be tantamount to death.

I see business crime as the worst of all. While street crime is awful, some of it is an indirect consequence of white collar crime. The ramifications of the thievery of the business criminals is far reaching; people's livelihoods are ruined, people are driven into destitution and poverty, and then drug addiction and crime inevitably follow. The effects are seismic in their scope.

Look at Enron and Bernie Madoff; so many were ruined by them and will never recover. Or the S&L thievery perpetrated by Neil Bush in the 1980s that we'll never recuperate fully from. Yet when they get caught, if their lawyers don't weasel them out of punishment, they get a gilded cage, a country club prison that's like a hotel. Doesn't seem fair to me.
 
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englad

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I can see where permanent incarceration would be tantamount to death.

I see business crime as the worst of all. While street crime is awful, some of it is an indirect consequence of white collar crime. The ramifications of the thievery of the business criminals is far reaching; people's livelihoods are ruined, people are driven into destitution and poverty, and then drug addiction and crime inevitably follow. The effects are seismic in their scope.

Look at Enron and Bernie Madoff; so many were ruined by them and will never recover. Or the S&L thievery perpetrated by Neil Bush in the 1980s that we'll never recuperate fully from. Yet when they get caught, if their lawyers don't weasel them out of punishment, they get a gilded cage, a country club prison that's like a hotel. Doesn't seem fair to me.

I agree it's the worst form of crime, and life imprisonment would probably be a tougher penalty than the death penalty anyway. Business can massively fuck people over even when they're technically operating within the law. One of the big problems we have is the way certain governments tolerate tax havens (most of them are current British territories or former British colonies). Another thing I'd add is we need to have randomised and impromptu empathy tests for people working in the finance industry. If they fail it, they're out immediately and can never work in that sector again. Pyschopaths in that industry are particularly dangerous and there's a disproportionately high percentage of them in the industry. For all our sakes, that desperately needs to change.
 
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I agree it's the worst form of crime, and life imprisonment would probably be a tougher penalty than the death penalty anyway. Business can massively fuck people over even when they're technically operating within the law. One of the big problems we have is the way certain governments tolerate tax havens (most of them are current British territories or former British colonies). Another thing I'd add is we need to have randomised and impromptu empathy tests for people working in the finance industry. If they fail it, they're out immediately and can never work in that sector again. Pyschopaths in that industry are particularly dangerous and there's a disproportionately high percentage of them in the industry. For all our sakes, that desperately needs to change.
Therein lies the problem. You would have to have a complete overhaul of worldwide business corporate culture, and sadly, I don't see that happening ever. Companies like to hire leaders with psychopathic and sociopathic traits (see Steve Jobs, et al) because they erroneously believe those people get results and are "go-getters."

There's a reason why the term business ethics is a perverse oxymoron.
 
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spaj8987

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Yet another difficult one. I'm against the death penalty in general. Mostly because of how easy it is for court systems to be corrupted and slanted in very specific directions. Though white collar crime does have much larger impacts than regular old murder. And doesn't carry nearly the same stigma. In fact a good portion of our society supports it.

Ok, nah. I'm not for it. Baring them from any form of business after long prison sentences sure but not death.

Then again......there have been all sorts of accounts of murderers being sent to prison for long periods of time only to be released on good behavior. And with the way society currently looks at white collar crime they'd probably just get a slap on the wrist. Ah i'm conflicted.
 
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Sometimes I wish we had the Japanese system of bushido for big business. The crook (like the ancient samurai) who dishonors himself and swindles a company and its shareholders and employees out of millions of dollars carries a tetsu-bishi short sword so he can do the honorable thing and commit hara-kiri. It would at least satiate the anguish of the people he screwed over. Of course, then there'd be very, very few CEOs in existence....

I can tell you this: if I were one of the families Enron screwed over, I'd have been baying for the blood of Skilling and Lay.

Corporate crime is FAR worse than simple murder and street crime. Bankers launder drug money, CEOs and Wall Street crooks swindle billions and crooked lawmakers and authorities accept slush funds and kickbacks. All of this breaks down society and hastens civilization's destruction. Their crime eventually leads to a rise in blue collar crime such as theft, murder and drug dealing because it leads to hard times for communities and the country in general trying to recover. It's all tied together; it has a ripple effect. And the effects of white collar crime last for generations.

Murder is more savage and shocking than corporate crime, yes. But corporate crime is in the long run far more ruinous and insidious and damaging to the world as a whole.
 
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