The 2009 G-20 London Summit for Dummies

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    (not that any of us on this site are dummies.... I just wanted to use a snappy title!)

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    The G20 Summit is an international meeting being held this year on Thursday, April 2, in London where representatives of the world's 20 leading economies are flying in for a summit on the financial crisis.


    The "20 leading economies" are as follows: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.

    The 20th member is the European Union, which is represented by the European Central Bank. Also, Spain and the Netherlands have been invited to attend this year, so, in actuality, the "G-20" is more than 20. Collectively, the G-20 economies comprise 85% of global gross national product, 80% of world trade and two-thirds of the world population.


    For the London Summit, the UK Treasury produced an extended agenda pamphlet proposing issues to be covered this year:


    * Coordinated macro-economic actions to revive the global economy, stimulate growth and employment

    * Reform and improve financial sector & systems - continue to deliver progress on the Washington Summit action plan

    * Reform international financial institutions (IFIs) - International Monetary Fund (IMF), Financial Stability Forum (FSF) and World Bank



    Tens of thousands of protesters are already marching across central London demanding jobs, economic justice, environmental accountability, kicking off six days of protests and action that'll run through the Summit meeting Thursday. A "Put People First" march is in progress today with 35.000 attending, marching, carrying signs.

    Signs are everywhere in these protests. Signs are ubiquitous:

    CAPITALISTS! You are the crisis!

    We won't pay for THEIR crisis!

    JUSTICE for the world's poor!

    Climate Emergency!


    Some protesters dressed up as businessmen with suitcases overflowing, stealing hordes of cash (Can anyone say AIG?) . Anti-globalization, anti-capitalist and environmental protests will be held throughout the week. Bankers in London's financial district have been warned to dress casually in order to avoid violent attacks. Those who can telecommute from home have been encouraged to do so. With President Barack Obama and other world leaders in town attempting to craft a coordinated response to the global financial meltdown, security measures have been estimated to cost London more than $7 million per day. There will be armed riot police. Anti-establishment leaders have been urging protesters to keep warm by "burning a banker".


    The world leaders converging on London will be fed "cheap and simple meals" in keeping with the somber nature of the occasion (at the last G20 summit, held in Washington last year, then US president George W. Bush served his guests a luxurious meal that included fruitwood-smoked quail even as the global financial crisis rapidly spun out of control). Frugality is this year's buzzword. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown is said to be putting together a "goody bag" for each of the assemble guests which will contain "a tie, a candle, chocolates and a tea towel".
     
  2. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    Belgium was there too with the slogan: 'People comes first' :redface:
     
  3. Joll

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    I heard Gordon Brown was planning to shove a load of Brit-flick dvds in Obama's goodie bag ;)

    Seriously though - I'm not sure where I stand on the protesting. If the leaders don't sort out the banking mess and somehow avoid a huge depression, then potentially millions of everyday people could end up jobless, etc. So not sure what sabotaging the meeting will actually achieve.

    I know the crisis was largely a result of financial industry stuff-ups - but since they're trying to put it right we might as well let them.
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    So the protesters are upset that the leaders are attempting to assert resolutions for the economic crisis?

    Pretty remarkable that they can get 35,000 idiots to assemble at one place at one time.

    Maybe the 'marching idiots' could better use their time researching job openings.
     
  5. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Star, please be charitable regarding the "marching idiots" assembling in London and carrying sign protesting rampant capitalism.

    If I remember correctly, you were one of these marching idiots 2 weeks ago, March 15, at a "Cincinnati Tea Party" event, noisily protesting stimulus bills and governmental bailouts with plenty of crazy handmade signs.
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    But the g-20 summit is being held to find solutions to make the lives of the marching idiots better.

    The tea party was simply saying stop spending our money so recklessly.
     
  7. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    star: Barack Obama and Tim Geithner have been tirelessly working overtime to find solutions to make your life better - and all you manage to do is bitch and complain.
     
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    You mean they are doing what they are paid to do. Just not doing it very well.

    We having a bad day, WT?
     
  9. HazelGod

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    Typical neotard delusional rationalizing...

    Whenever they behave a certain way, it's a perfectly reasonable act for a worthwhile cause...but when others engage in the same behavior, they're idiots. :rolleyes:
     
  10. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    star: I think I understand what part of your problem is.

    About Obama in Europe at the summit.

    Obama really is a european sympathizer at heart. Obama is basically friendly towards european mores and morals and economic values. George W. Bush seemed to detest Europe. "W" looked down on european culture, prefering to view the U.S. as a sort of a "daddy figure" to the U.K., Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc.

    Obama sees Europe as true allies, equals. Yes, the United States has more military might, but Obama seeks to find that ground that unites us all. I get the feeling Obama would feel comfortable vacationing among the diverse architectural pleasures of Barcelona or visiting the Louvre in Paris. Or biking through Venice and discovering the Sistine Chapel in Rome (yeah, I know. You conservatives have been practically brainwashed to go "Eewww!") .

    I cannot imagine George W. Bush enjoying a gondola trip, drinking coffee at a sidewalk cafe, feeling at ease at Trinity College, Dublin. What is a cowboy like Bush going to do with history and culture?


    Obama will meet with British, Russian and Chinese heads of state on Tuesday, when he departs for London's G-20. The meeting is on a Thursday, and he's pushing, beforehand, for more stimulus spending as well as regulatory reform in Europe. Obama will be on solid footing meeting with Germany's Angela Merkel (Merkel is really jazzed about Geithner's recent market regulations).

    Basically, star, I think you still want a president that feels ill-at-ease in Europe, that would never feel comfortable chatting up or hob-nobbing with Sarkozy. You want a U.S. president that feels superior to Europe. That talks down to France. A United States that is not in sync with european values.

    I think a rude awakening is coming for hardline american conservatives. The U.S. is slowly becoming in sync with european culture and is inextricably interconnected with a healthy market for ALL. This is no longer a Bush "my way or the highway" philosophy. "You're either with us or with the terrorists" mentality. It's not "us" and "them". We're all one world now, working from a global perspective.

    Kiss "W" goodbye. The U.S. is european friendly now. We're happy to be one of the characters on the stage, not the entire show. We're partners, not the Daddy.
     
    #10 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  11. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Not even close. Nice try though.

    We are absolutely not one and the same with Europe. A close ally with the Britain, beyond that we will peacefully coexist with the rest of Europe and trade and economic partnerships are healthy for us all.

    The liberal fantasy of becoming a full-fledged socialist country - like Europe - will not happen here. Obama's Marxist Administration is pushing as hard as it can for socialist, European-style government.

    After that movement falls flat on its face, there will be wholesale changes in D.C. at the next election cycle; and we will return to the principles that made the U.S. the country the was forged through 200+ years of productive and successful capitalism.

    This country was never meant to be socialist. Just flip through the Constitution. We broke away from England, remember? Why would we want to turn around and re-create that government.

    I can't believe you are buying into this Obama fantasy B.S. His voyage into this world of which he has not the first fucking clue is setting up you liberals for disappointment in epic proportions.

    They will be laughing at his economic ignorance at that summit. I hope for his own dignity that he keeps his piehole shut the whole week and just listens to the people that have a clue.
     
  12. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    willtom27 has one view of Europe...
    trollinfestor has another.

    Somewhere in between lies the real truth. Although to be honest, I tend to think will has a much better grasp on the reality of the situation than our neighborhood forum troll.
     
  13. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Hahaha. Oh my goodness, VB. That is hilarious! You are soo clever.
     
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    At least I've BEEN to Europe, troll. Several times in the last few years.
    Walking the streets of the country and dealing with the everyday people who live in it is a LOT different than trying to analyze it from afar. Perhaps you should actually go to the areas that you claim to be our adversaries and really see how they feel about us?

    Or are you so comfortably paranoid in your pathetic Midwestern abode that you'll forever allow your own assumptions & fears guide you to your own extremely exaggerated conclusions?
     
  15. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    hey, star & vinylboy --


    I saw a "60 Minutes" segment a couple years back that, I think, influenced my politics and is a reason I welcome (& am unafraid of) a certain degree of socialism.


    Denmark is frequently cited the "Most Happy Country" (or, I suppose, technically, the most content). The U.S., back when this segment aired, was ranked #23, behind Canada and Costa Rica.

    In Denmark, all education is free (or "free", taxpayer funded) "right on through university". There is little violence, practically no murder (a knife-stabbing is front page news every time). 37 hour work week and 6 weeks of paid vacation time.

    Watch the link and comment if you guys get a chance. This system of government is probably impossible for an overgrown, bloated country like ours, with the population clock now exceeding 306 million. But it does seem a nice dream.


    YouTube - 60 Minutes - Happiness
     
  16. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Also, one last for you, star:

    This was on the ABC News site:

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    President Obama's "European Vacation"

    White House press secretary Robert Gibbs jokingly referred to President Obama's trip to Europe for the G-20, NATO, and EU summits as "our European vacation", and it's clear that little soothing or relaxing awaits the young president as he prepares for his flight to London.

    Over the weekend, the German Der Spiegel obtained a draft communiqué from British Prime Minister Gordon Brown urging the G20 nations to pledge $2 trillion in stimulus. While a Downing Street spokesman told Reuters that this was an old draft and "nothing more than the IMF's estimate of action already announced," the figure nonetheless reportedly prompted a strong reaction from Brown's European counterparts.

    German chancellor Angela Merkel assailed the "global new deal," the Times of London reports. "I will not let anyone tell me that we must spend more money." Spanish finance minister Pedro Solbes concurred, saying, "In these conditions I and the rest of my colleagues from the eurozone believe there is no room for new fiscal stimulus plans."

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    So, Angela Merkel says - "I will not let anyone tell me that we must spend more money."

    She must be a conservative, right? -- Wrong! -- Merkel has been the chairwoman of the Christian Democratic Union since April, 2000; She leads a "Grand coaltion" with its sister party, the Christian Social Union, and with the Social Democratic Party of Germany.


    Star, I challenge you to write a thread about how european democrats and socialists can be "fiscally conservative", like some seem to be doing now (and more fiscally conservative than american republicans).
     
  17. Joll

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    Angela Merkel's party is still part of the EPP though (European People's Party) - along with Britain's Conservatives - which is the centre-right grouping of European political parties.

    European People's Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    (Sorry to butt in btw - feel free to ignore :wink:)

    On a slightly different issue - did anybody hear about the Trans-Atlantic free-trade area proposed by Angela Merkel a year or two ago? It would apparently be a free-trade area with common regulations and standards, etc.

    I'd warn against this (if it's being seriously considered, that is) as it's kind've the route Britain went down and we've paid heavily.
    When we joined the EEC (as it then was) we had to swallow whole their long list of laws and regulations etc (the acquis communautaire) and change the way we did a huge amount of things, which was crippling in a variety of ways - and tremendously expensive.

    If the US entered a free-trade area with Europe the likelihood is you'd end up having to comply with Europe's already-established standards - which would not only be expensive, but also mean you coming under their influence and scrutiny in a large number of areas.

    Maybe very unlikely to happen - but just incase...don't do it!!! :)
     
    #17 Joll, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2009
  18. dong20

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    It's a valid observation.

    Not aimed at Will per se but it's evident that some Americans here are 'confused' by the labels attached to political affiliations in Europe. They're not directly interchangeable with those in the US, as illustrated above.

    Sometimes the names are a heads up as where they lie on the political spectrum, sometimes not so much.

    BTW, I believe Britain's Conservatives are no longer on the EPP roster, so far as I know there is no EPP representation in the UK.
     
  19. Joll

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    I think they were due to leave about a year ago - because the EPP was too federalist for many Conservatives. Don't think they got around to it though as it proved to be contentious and also pressure was put on from Sarkozy and Merkel to stay in.

    I heard recently they announced they were going to leave either after the European elections this year, or after the next UK general election. It'll be difficult though, because it means starting a new grouping with the Czech Republic's right-wing party. (Not sure what will happen though, as I think the Czech Government has just had a vote of no-confidence, despite currently holding the EU Presidency).
     
    #19 Joll, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2009
  20. dong20

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    I did a quick check and they're not listed on the EPP memberlist - and now I check they're not listed on the Wiki article you linked either.

    EPP | European People's Party

    There are a couple of dozen UK members (Conservatives and Ulster Unionists) in the EPP-ED (European Democrats) sub group, although as a group they're not party political, more an affiliation. Perhaps that's what was meant.
     
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