The "asking for it" debate

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by ManlyBanisters, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. ManlyBanisters

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    This thread was prompted by comments made in a thread about a member leaving - this thread is not here to discuss Mandee or her specific issue with specific PMs - there is another thread entirely dedicated to that topic.

    I thought about posting this in women's issue, but really it is not a women's issue - it is a people issue because it is not so much the fact of a woman's behaviour prompting certain reactions that I think needs discussion but more the attitude that there is some kind of hierarchy that certain people should modify their behaviours in order to avoid certain reactionary behaviour from other people.

    It has been said here recently (paraphrasing hugely) that women who post nude, pornographic images should expect to attract derogatory, aggressively sexual comments and that if a woman wants to avoid receiving these comments she should only post wholesome pictures and comments. A side point was also made that a woman posting sexual images of herself was lacking self respect!! Now that maybe another discussion for another thread but it certainly serves as another example of double standards (what I found truly outrageous about that was the comment came from another woman [I have no reason to doubt the poster is a genuine woman either]).

    Now - in the case of LPSG specifically that is clearly a case of double standards. Is it not to be expected that men posting pornographic images should receive the same? Albeit from a different audience. I know that some men here do receive that kind of PM - should they be expected to handle it differently? Should they be more surprised than the women? Is there a difference in how the straight guys should react and how the gay guys should react?

    I have an answer to all my questions myself, of course. And the answer is No - there is no difference. We are all human beings and we should be afforded the same respects. If that respect is violated by an aggressively sexual advance (in whatever form) then a wrong has been done, regardless of the victim's sex, colour, orientation, religion, etc., etc..

    There are behaviours online and in real life that we all accept are unreasonable. PMing someone continually with sexually aggressively comments (especially after being asked to stop or receiving no reply and regardless of whether those comments are derogatory or complimentary), touching someone sexually without their permission (sexual assault), rape - I am not saying those three things are equivalent but they are forms / levels of the same kind of abuse.

    What I am trying to get round to in a somewhat long winded and rambling way, is that there seems to be an opinion that people should modify their behaviour if they want to avoid being the victim of this kind of abuse. Further to that there is an opinion that certain types of people (e.g., but not exclusively, women) who need to be MORE careful that others and that it is in fact the woman's (in this example) lack of propriety that leads to, or in part causes, the abusive behaviour.

    Now, laying my opinion on the line, I will say that I believe that to be utter bollocks. I believe that if a person has it in them to be abusive they will find a victim. You might as well say that child abuse is the fault, in part, of the child for being alone with a paedophile as say that a rape victim was 'asking for it' as a result of any sexual behaviour or way of dressing / talking. And indeed that point has been made in court several times and been the subject of many works of fiction in many genres.

    So why does the opinion prevail that a person can be in part responsible, by their behaviour, for their own abuse?

    Does anyone here really believe that a man or woman posting sexual images here should expect abusive PMs? And that the very act of posting those images is the cause of the abuse?

    I know I am not alone in my opinion but I would like to hear from those that believe in some level of 'asking for it' how they justify that opinion.
     
  2. naughty

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    You absolutely know my feelings about it. Even without pictures in my gallery of my body I have over the time I have been here had men "emaul" me with requests for a myriad of things. I will say that this type of site does bring with it certain expectations of more open attitudes towards sexual activity but once again it really isnt enough for us male and female to say, "it's is the net", or "she should have known better" or "I was just having fun".
     
  3. B_dumbcow

    B_dumbcow New Member

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    Ok, I just typed something that made no sense.

    The gist of it was that I agree with ManlyBanisters
     
  4. jlr080281

    jlr080281 New Member

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    Yes, if a women posts pictures like that of herself then she should expect ridiculous PM's from men.

    Is she asking for it? Probably not. But when you post nude pictures of yourself on a large penis forum filled with horny men, you'd have to be pretty naive to think you won't get PM's of that nature. I think anyone who's been around the internet for any length of time knows that much.

    Maybe a lot of men post pictures of themselves hoping that people will send stupid PM's their way. So when a woman posts her pictures maybe they assume she's doing it for the same reason?
     
  5. Mr. Snakey

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    There is a double standard on here. We need to show more respect for the women. Ive said this time and time again and it seems to fall on deaf ears. I fear we are driving the women away and it will get to the point when they wont even bother to come on here anymore. That will be a very sad day when that happens.
     
  6. ManlyBanisters

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    So you believe women should expect different treatment from the men?

    Do you believe that women should expect this more than men?

    You seem to believe that men will like this kind of treatment whereas women won't. What makes you think that? (If indeed you do) Also, do you think gay and straight men feel the same about it - or is there a difference there too?
     
  7. midlifebear

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    Dear ManlyBanisters:

    There's no question that men (I'm a member of that sex) still tend to have a sense of entitlement over women, despite what our mothers may have tried to teach us. As a gay man I do not post photos of myself anywhere -- nude or clothed. In the early 1970's my face would appear regularly in the San Francisco Herald because of a small part I played in gay politics. That was enough to attract all kinds of unwanted attention; much worse than just getting PM'd.

    The idea of posting shots of my dick on the Internet is just not part of me. Possibly, because I'm from a couple of generations ago. But for both men and women, if that's what floats your boat go ahead and post those close-up digital flashes.

    Yes, it is unfair that men on any web site PM and bother women. Think about it. Approximately 9 out of every 10 children who are molested are girls violated by heterosexual men. Nurture/Nature? Don't know. But I bet if we did a similar count on the number of males posting "Hey, look at my dick!" compared to the number of women posting "Hey, check out my snatch!" we'd find similar ratios: 1 woman out of 10 (possibly 1 woman out of 20?). Can't really say. But "I feel your pain." But more importantly, I would worry about some sick fuck actually seeking out a female member on this sight and doing much worse things than sending unwanted PM's or calling her late at night.

    It's a spooky world out there. Take care of yourself.
     
  8. naughty

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    Wow! What an ominous end note. Midlifebear, I really think some of what we are seeing is the result of sexual addiction. Even though we know the pics in the gallery are not professional pornography there are individuals who have become addicted to getting aroused with porn and on some level immediately associate nude pics with the objectifying nature of porn. THe poster of the pics may not have had that intention but none of us can control how someone else perceives . Porn conbined with an addictive personality can sometimes help individuals blur boundaries and believe what they see in porn and the lies that it inadvertantly projects. I think we have discussed this a number of times the messages sent by porn are not necessarily reality and one can not approach a real life woman and expect her to docily accept this kind of attention without possible repercussions.
     
  9. marleyisalegend

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    the mandee thread had a baby thread?!?!?! anyhow i myself certainly remember the days when women DID receive special treatment, something along the lines of being a gentlemen though a doubt a site that allows men to glorify themselves with pictures of their penises can be expected to bring about gentlemenly behavior. this seems to me a site to let inhibitions about sexuality go and though i don't think there's anything wrong with requesting a cock-rating, i can imagine it'd be annoying having to dig through 50 PMs about 'rate-my-cock' to have to find a PM from an actual friend. i may be wrong in assuming there isn't, but maybe the mods could open a forum specifically for rate-my-cock threads. then the men wouldn't have to spend time sending out individual requests and women wouldn't have to sift through 90 requests in their pm box
     
  10. Gillette

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    This seems like an intricate minefield in the way this question is set up.
    There are two issues at work here. One is reaction, the other is abuse.

    Abuse is when despite communicated wishes for a behaviour to cease it is continued. No one "asks" for that. In fact by the act of communicating their desire they are asking that the abuse does not happen.

    Abuse for me is pretty clear cut in that regard. It is continued behaviour despite being requested or told outright to stop.

    Behaviour continued in the face of silence is a muddier issue. It's difficult to compare this with rape because in such a case there are at least visual cues that the woman doesn't like it as well as physical actions indicating refusal. There is none of that feedback with PMs. Just as the sender could assume you got the message and weren't interested they could also assume you didn't get it due to technical glitch or that the recipient is playing coy. One can't make the assumption that another would draw the same conclusion they would given the same circumstance. I would advise responding in the negative to remove the possibility of misconceptions.

    Reaction.
    I find it naive of people not to understand that certain visual cues will engender particular responses.

    Why don't we wear cut-off shorts with flip flops to job interviews?
    Because visual cues convey a strong message.
    Opening our arms to loved ones is a visual cue. It's an invitation.

    What message do we expect a viewer to recieve from an image of open legs and labia spread or an image of the anus held open?

    Has any of us ever encounted our partner presented in a sexually prepared pose and thought, "Oh god, not another discussion of foriegn policy"? (No Bush Jokes, please.)

    If someone has confused this site with a medical forum and thinks the only attention images of their sexual organs will recieve is of a professional variety, they're daft. Simply put.

    This is a sex forum. The majority of people here have sex on their mind to one degree or another. Posting pics of your sexual bits is bound draw someones attention to you in a sexual manner. You'd have to be pretty dim not to connect those dots.

    Yes, people should expect to attract attention in response to what they put out as representative of themselves.

    No posts(or chat), no pics - no attention
    Posts but no pics - attention only to what you post
    Posts and pics - attention to one or the other or both
    Pics only - attention only to your pics.

    Subject matter in the pics and reaction one might expect
    Face pics - comments on your face ("Gosh, you're pretty")
    Seductive pose - comments on your sexual attractiveness ("Gosh, I'd love to have sex with you")
    Disembodied sexual organ in a sex ready pose - ("Godamn, I'd love to fuck that!")

    People will react, if at all, in response to what they are given to react to.
    Expecting otherwise is foolish.

    -Expect to draw attention based on what you put out for others to see.
    -Respond positively or negatively to the communication you get. (Yes, I know many have something in their sig line about No PMs but the gallery hounds don't read signatures)
    -If communication continues despite your expressed desire for it to stop, then, and only then, is it abuse.
    -Report it to the moderators because no, nobody asks for nor should they put up with abuse.
     
  11. midlifebear

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    You're on to something, and I'm afraid it's not a positive thing. However, just to go on a tangent I noticed you've got the lyrics to Stormy Weather on your signature line. Just so happens that Stormy Leather is my favorite leather apparel store in the world, and of course it has to be in San Francisco.

    Anyway, good luck with staying out of harm's way and being bothered by so many double-digit IQ males.
     
  12. naughty

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    THanks dear,

    This place can be addictive. It can also make any one of us lose our mind at any particular time but assumptions should not be made. I always try to put a signature line that corresponds with my avatar. That happens to be a movie poster for Stormy Weather with Lena Horne.
     
  13. JC8

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    Supper time?


    Wait, are the labia and the anus attached to the same person ... (see, if I hadn't typed that thought out, god only knows what kind of offers I'd have to endure, and then I'd start a thread about how I only want to rim female anus, and why can't everyone just check my profile to see I'm 100% straight ... vicious cycle isn't it.)
     
  14. naughty

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    This is what I love about this place. Thank you for saying this . I had not thought of it this way but what you are saying unfortunately is absolutely true. I was thinking ideally and life is usually not ideal. :frown1:
     
  15. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    interesting

    as far as I could always see, that was not the intent of this particular site or forum, so I've never thought of doing so, so the times I have gotten those propositions it always seemed a bit of odd

    I have never thought of submitting those propositions, either, as there are other sites for that

    which is to say, that my expectation would be that no-one should be subjected to those propositions here, whether or not they do post any images, suggestive or not
     
  16. ZOS23xy

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    I've seen people start threads and come on very strongly and negative, and then complain when people call them on it. If you start something, expect the worst that might crawl out of it.

    The mind games are a bit of fun, but not when the OP becomes abusive towards people correcting wrong thinking or a bad attitude.
     
  17. marleyisalegend

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    i think it might be insiteful to change the format, people are saying flooding a PM box with requests is okay since this is a sex site. let's say for example this were a pet lovers site. because i have pictures of me and my cat in my profile does that mean i should expect to be flooded with requests to look at other people's pets?? i personally don't see any wrongdoing by the men who send these messages (except ones who do it excessively) but i can understand the annoyance of opening your inbox to a bunch of cock-rating requests. again i think this would be solved it the mods opened a form SPECIFICALLY for members to post pics and request ratings, that way there's a more organized way to get requests, rather than sending messages to someone who may or may not already have 15 of the same messages flooding their inbox
     
  18. naughty

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    Darling

    We have a section for people to connect and there are places in the gallery for people to comment. This is something quite different.
     
  19. marleyisalegend

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    howso?? it seems to me that the concern is an inbox full of cock-rating requests. i don't have the problem but for those that do, what other viable solution is there?? all i'm suggesting is that if there were a forum for cock-ratings, a woman could decide saturday that she feels like rating one and do so, then sunday if she doesn't feel like it she won't have to sift through all the requests in her PM box. just offering a solution here its just a suggestion

    PS, my name isn't darling :wink:
     
  20. naughty

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    I am responding to the fact that cock ratings are not the only thing that people are requesting. These pms range anywhere from a polite
    I think you are pretty would you like to talk sometime?" to "Want to watch me jack off?", "Die, you skank hoe, Die! ", "How would you like to feel my big meat in that luscious pussy of yours?" .
     
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