The Beautiful Big Gay HRC Speech

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Yes, I know speeches are one thing and actions are quite another.


    But, I want to take time here to fully appreciate the contents of this speech. Because we have never had an american president before that spoke this forcefully and eloquently in support of gay rights.


    Bill Clinton, while in office, gave some half-hearted, wishy-washy support, plus those "compromises" like DADT that didn't satisfy anybody, eyes always on the politically safe route (yes, I realize it was a bit of a different time in the '90's).


    Let's take a quick walk down Memory Lane, shall we? and look at the rhetoric of George W. Bush. From the non-partisan website "On the Issues":


    * Constitutional amendment to protect marriage. (Feb 2005)
    * Don’t know whether homosexuality is a choice. (Oct 2004)
    * We shouldn’t change our views on the sanctity of marriage. (Oct 2004)
    * Protect marriage against activist judges. (Sep 2004)
    * Bush calls for constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. (Feb 2004)
    * Instinct on gay issues: do not touch them. (Jun 2003)
    * Offices on AIDS and race will remain open. (Feb 2001)
    * Bush claims gay tolerance but record differs. (Oct 2000)
    * Tolerance & equal rights, not gay marriage & special rights. (Oct 2000)
    * No gay adoptions; but listens to gay GOP group. (Apr 2000)
    * Against gay marriage, but leave it to the states. (Feb 2000)
    * No gays in Boy Scouts. (Aug 1999)
    * Hate-crime rules don’t apply to gays. (Jul 1999)

    --------------------


    Let us listen to Obama now, a new direction, the first strong, positive rhetoric on gay rights, the first politician to thoroughly understand the gay rights struggle and to connect it to the african-american struggle and other civil rights movements.


    "While some may wish to define you solely by your sexual orientation or gender identity alone, you know and I know that none of us wants to be defined by just one part of what makes us whole. You're also parents worried about your children's futures, you're spouses in fear that you or the person you love will lose a job, you're workers worried about the rising costs of health insurance, you're soldiers, you are neighbors, you are friends, and most importantly, you are americans who care deeply about this country and its future."


    Can anyone imagine either John McCain or Sarah Palin giving a speech like this? Or Mitt Romney or ANY potential republican presidential candidate?


    "My expectation is that when you look back on these years, you will see a time in which we put a stop to discrimination against gays and lesbians, whether in the office or on the battlefield. You will see a time in which we as a nation finally recognized relationships between two men or two women as just as real and admirable as relationships between a man and a woman."



    Talking about the Matthew Sheppard bill that will pass congress shortly: "...Ted Kennedy, who fought tirelessly for this legislation... it's a testament to the human rights campaign... and it's testament to Matthew and others who've been the victim of attacks not just meant to break bones, but to break spirits. Not meant just to inflict harm, but to instill fear. Together, we will have moved closer to that day when no-one has to be afraid to be gay in America. When no-one has to fear walking down the street holding the hand of the person they love."


    You know, gays "walking down the street holding the hand of the person they love", is considered flaunting it, IN YOUR FACE militant behavior, by many conservatives. "I'm all for your lifestyle, just please don't shove it in my face" conservatives will say when they see two men innocently holding hands by the beach or marching to change a law.


    "I will not waver in my committment to end discrimination in all its forms."

    "We are moving ahead on 'Dont Ask, Don't Tell.' We should not be punishing patriotic americans who have stepped forward to serve this country, we should be celebrating their willingness to show such courage and selflessness on behalf of their fellow citizens, especially when we're fighting two wars... I will end 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', that's my commitment to you."

    "I've called on congress to repeal the so-called 'Defense of Marriage Act."

    "Tonight, somewhere in America, a young person, let's say a young man, will struggle to fall asleep, wrestling alone with a secret he's held as long as he can remember, And soon, perhaps, he will decide it's time to let that secret out. What happens next depends on him, his family, as well as his friends, his teachers and his community. But it also depends on us. On the kind of society we engender and the kind of future we build. I believe the future is bright for that young person. For while there will be setbacks and bumps along the road, the truth is that our common ideals are a force far stronger than any division that some might sow. And these ideals voiced by generations of citizens are what made it possible for me to stand here today..."


    Obama distinctly makes the case that the gay struggle and the african-american struggle are all part of the same larger struggle for equality.


    YouTube - President Obama's Speech To Gay Rights Activists pt.1

    YouTube - President Obama's Speech To Gay Rights Activists pt.1

    YouTube - President Obama's Speech To Gay Rights Activists pt.3
     
  2. Flashy

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    if he so strongly supports gay rights it is rather strange that he should still be against gay marriage.

    :rolleyes:


    "I DO BELIEVE THAT TRADITION AND MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS SAY THAT MARRIAGE IS SOMETHING SANCTIFIED BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN"

    - Barack Obama



    Barack Obama on Gay Rights



    you are so full of shit trinitom...

    you love grand sweeping gestures and symbolism, but don't care if it is a lie, or something unreachable or something disingenuous.

    say what you want, but Obama shares the same view on Gay Marriage as Dick Cheney.









     
    #2 Flashy, Oct 11, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  3. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Flashy,

    Bill Clinton gave almost the same exact answers as Obama. Yet he, like Barack, is evolving. He is in a state of "gay evolution" as we speak.


    Bill Clinton changes his mind on same-sex marriage:

    YouTube - Bill Clinton Explains To Anderson Cooper Why He Now Supports Gay Marriage - 9/25/2009


    Flashy, gay rights are more than any single gay issue (such as gay marriage). Please do not try to hoodwink us into thinking that Obama is somehow against gay equality - which, forgive me, seems to be your underlying intent.


    Now, we all know your game, Flashy.

    1) You become agitated when someone challenges your posts.

    2) You might fitfully re-double your little efforts to prove that Obama is against gay marriage -- while completely ignoring the larger truer context -- the powerful, most impassioned speech any president has given, ever last night, a speech I suspect you did not watch.



    Instead of keeping on the single-issue track (as Trinity does) of focusing solely on Obama-against-gay-marriage, why not broaden your horizen and look at the unique HRC speech where he covers a whole groundwork of gay issues. This multiplicity will give us a better clue as to where Obama stands.

    And where he, like Bill Clinton, may be evolving.
     
  4. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Dick Cheney has come out in support of gay marriage because he, and this supports Will entirely, has "evolved".

    I like you, Flashy.

    But I love you, Will.

    As both you well know.
     
  5. Flashy

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    LOL

    your desperate attempts aside, you still did not challenege the *FACT* that he is *AGAINST* gay marriage.

    you can whine about your whole host of gay rights issues, but the fact is, aside from speeches, he has done next to nothing....and those are not *MY* words

    -

    Denis Dison, a spokesman for the Gay & Lesbian Victory Fund, which supports openly gay and lesbian office-seekers and elected officials, gives Obama a grade of "incomplete."

    -
    Some protesters gathered outside the convention hall Saturday, and among them was Mark Katzenberger, 53, a software instructor from San Francisco, who pronounced the president's record "miserable." Katzenberger held a sign reading: "How about the Audacity of Action, Mr. President?"

    -
    The uneven track record to date has Cleve Jones, 54, a former aide to late gay rights leader Harvey Milk, fed up with what he termed "incrementalism" and tired of politicians telling activists to prioritize their demands. He compared his cause to the civil rights struggles of the 1960s. "We want equal protection under the law on all matters governed by civil law -- in all 50 states. That's also known as the 14th Amendment," he said.

    Cleve Jones, said Mr Obama delivered a brilliant speech, but “it lacked the answer to our most pressing question — which is when. He repeated the promises that he’s made to us before, but he did not indicate when he would accomplish these goals and we’ve been waiting for a while now.”

    -

    Army 1st Lt. Daniel Choi, a 28-year-old West Point graduate who is gay, served in Iraq and now faces discharge from the National Guard because he has come out about his sexual orientation. He said he liked Obama's promises but wanted the rhetoric met by results.

    -

    Richard Socarides, who advised the Clinton Administration on policy towards the gay community, said Mr Obama delivered “a strong speech in tone, although only vaguely reassuring in content”.
    Delivering a critique that has begun to attach to Mr Obama’s style of governance more generally — lofty speeches but lack of achievement — Mr Socarides added: “The President and Nobel winner came and paid his respects, but tomorrow many will ask: ‘What’s his plan, what’s his timetable?’”

    -


    One commenter on gay blogger Pam Spaulding's website called the statement "honeyed words, easy to say."

    "Mr. President," the commenter asked, "when are you going to actually DO something for same-sex couples and their children? Other than make ceremonial proclamations, that is."

    -

    "An opportunity was missed tonight," said Kevin Dix of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which had urged Obama to set a deadline for ending Don't Ask Don't Tell. "When are we going to get this done? We didn't hear any of that tonight.

    -
    Even inside the room, reaction was mixed. Terry Penrod, a real estate agent from Columbus, Ohio, said some gay rights advocates were being impatient with the president, while Raj Malthotra, 29, a management consultant from Washington, said he thought the speech was a rehash of Mr. Obama’s past promises.
    “For him, it’s buy more time until he needs our votes again,” Mr. Malthotra said.

    -
    AMERICAblog News| A great nation deserves the truth: Where's the beef?

    AMERICAblog Gay | A great people deserve their rights: Obama's big gay speech: Heard it all before.


    -----------

    as i said Trinitom...action, not words.


    you are in love with words...not results.

    show me...don't tell me


    :rolleyes:



    and before you go off on another screed about those meanies on the right, just FYI, according to Gallup, in May 2009 a full 58% of conservatives support the repeal of don't ask don't tell...along with 77% of moderates.
     
  6. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    OMG! :eek:

    will this fawning over an obvious demagogue never end?!?!?

    :aargh4: :banghead: :aargh4: :banghead: :aargh4: :banghead: :aargh4: :banghead:
     
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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  8. Flashy

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    cheney only evolved because he has a gay daughter...

    maybe if one of Obama's daughters turns out to be gay he will evolve...

    and, Cheney does not support gay marriage...he supports states' rights on gay marriage and still is against gay marriage legalization on a national level...just like Obama.

    that, to me, is not good enough.

    gay people, in the USA as a whole, have just as much right to be married and miserable as straight people
     
  9. Flashy

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  10. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    So you aren't against gay marriage?
     
  11. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Why he evolved could not be of less import. The fact remains, he did. And I don't believe for one minute that Obama opposes gay marriage. If his "evolution" takes some time, so be it.
     
  12. Flashy

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    so, in other words, Barack is simply lying to all of us about his stance on gay marriage?

    :confused:

    frankly, i think that is even more cowardly.

    if he honestly believes in it, why not just say it?

    i believe in gay marriage...why shouldn't he say it out loud too?

    he could very easily say something along the lines of "I strongly believe in gay marriage being legalized nationally...but the likelihood of passing it is not good."

    instead, he is either

    A. Lying
    B. Doesn't really believe in it.

    neither one is a particularly admirable stance...
     
  13. Flashy

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    of course not.

    i have been on record on this forum since the beginning as being pro-gay marriage, gay adoption, gays in the military, etc...

    these are civil rights issues.

    just because you love someone of the same sex does not mean you are entitled to anything less than the same rights as all others.

    i have always been a social and civil libertarian.

    denying other people rights that everyone else has is the most fundamentally unamerican and unconstitutional thing i can think of.

    the right to smoke a joint, speak freely, drink a glass of wine if you are 18, not 21, and to love who you want to love and marry them if you choose is of the most fundamental and basic freedom and liberties that the constitution guarantees us.
     
    #13 Flashy, Oct 11, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  14. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    That's what I thought. Just checking.

    "Gay people, in the USA as a whole, have just as much right to be married and miserable as straight people," is an interesting choice of words, though.

    <rant>

    Marriage, as we know it in almost every developed nation, may not have been created by religion, but religious institutions and doctrines control marriage. In the East and the West, it was a way to use women as a commodity, to join political families, to acquire wealth though dowries, to acknowledge property rights, and of course to create heirs. There is nothing romantic about this ritual.

    My point is: I don't know why homosexuals want any part of this archaic, almost barbaric ritual. I have been writing on this site for years that I don't think that heterosexual marriage, or monogamy, is natural... so why should I support gay marriage?

    At the risk of getting even more flack, I don't like it when people change definitions just to cater to small interest groups. "Black" people are black, "retarded" people are retarded, and "marriage" is a union between a man
    and a woman.

    I'm all for the right for homosexuals to have civil unions, but a 'marriage' between two men or two women just makes no sense. Please, anybody, correct me if I'm mistaken.

    </rant>
     
  15. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    No. He's equivocating. I don't particularly like it, but as a matter of political expediency, in some things and at some times, I accept it. It is an unfortunate part of the game.

    Don't pretend to be obtuse to make me explain things we both know and understand, Flash. ;-)
     
  16. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    P?

    Do you have to use such an awkward colour, i'm squinting trying to read :(
     
  17. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    irritating, ain't it?:yup:
     
  18. Flashy

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    well, i was being facetious, considering how much unpleasantness i see in marriages.

    :smile:


    i.e, i support your right to legally be just as miserable as everyone else. :biggrin1:
     
  19. Flashy

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    true, i am not obtuse, but you also cannot really call it equivocating...if he really believes in gay marriage, but is saying he doesn't, that is, for lack of a better word, lying. or disingenuous...or hypocritical...

    if GWB believed in pro-choice, but said he was pro-life, and continued along with that policy and said he agreed it with it, would he be equivocating, or lying, being disingenuous or hypocritical? :smile:

    saying one thing, while believing another, has a rather dishonest bent to it, no?
     
  20. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    When you're right, you're right. *sigh* But "lying" is such an ugly word. Let's call it "temporarily misleading", instead. :wink:
     
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