the Bible on slavery

Lex

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You guys are arguing over things which you essentially agree on.

This is exactly (a gay guy arguing with an African American) what I believe you were both hoping to avoid.

Correct me if I am wrong.
 

b.c.

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I don't consider it so much an argument as much a discord over what I perceive to be the focus of Stronzo's topics: black people.

for example, the gist of his thread (via his own confirmation) about the Black man "reconciling" Christianity was that blacks are following a religion that is not even theirs, and in so doing, they/we are not supporting gay rights issues within that church, at least not to his satisfaction.

Now his point seems to be that this same religion that many Blacks embrace condoned and supported slavery, for the purpose (presumably) of pointing out that if the church was wrong about that injustice, then it must certainly be wrong about church doctrine on homosexuality as well.

We get it.

But what I don't get is his angst over the Black man's role in this regard. What does he want? Does he want blacks to reject the church, their faith, their beliefs, God, because Stronzo is angry at his church? And while we're at it, maybe all women should reject it all as well, for similar reasons.

I think he's angry at the wrong people.
 

B_Stronzo

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Lex said:
You guys are arguing over things which you essentially agree on.

This is exactly (a gay guy arguing with an African American) what I believe you were both hoping to avoid.

Correct me if I am wrong.

It's precisely what I knew was unavoidable Lex since I saw the beginnings of it in BronxBombshell's thread and had to side step the debate turning in that direction.

But now I want it out much in that same way you and we others did in regard to race. I want there to be no mistake who's a bigot toward homosexuals and who isn't regardless of ethnicity.

I've wanted to address it long before I joined this group in fact. It needs to be exposed as do all inconsistencies in social rhetoric.

b.c. said:
Now his point seems to be that this same religion that many Blacks embrace condoned and supported slavery, for the purpose (presumably) of pointing out that if the church was wrong about that injustice, then it must certainly be wrong about church doctrine on homosexuality as well.

We get it.

Do you really? Oddly the tone of exasperation at your 'getting it' is palpable on my end of the screen. Poor you for having to dig a bit beyond the obvious..:rolleyes:
 

B_Stronzo

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b.c. said:
I don't consider it so much an argument as much a discord over what I perceive to be the focus of Stronzo's topics: black people.

Now you're simply paranoic.

I'm focusing on 'black people' no more or less than I am gay ones since we both have endured/are enduring a similar fate.
 

B_Stronzo

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b.c[b said:
Maybe you should rant against the "TEACHER" and not the "student". Direct your anger towards the people and politicians your (white conservative) brethren put into power. Rail against the institution and the keepers of "the faith" instead of a minority of its followers.
That's uncalled for an decidely racist. They're not my 'brethren' but then neither, from what you write are you.


"Stupid 'darkies'. Didn't they all know it was a story we told them to keep them in line? Now they've gone and believed it all...as if Jesus was
their lord! Don't they know this isn't their religion? We lied! See? Lookie here! It says 'slaves'... and here too...'slaves'...and (where was that passage?)...here! Slaves! That means YOU, boy! Now go out and pick me some cotton."
Is that "rose coloured" enough for you?

No but it's certaily obnoxious and your inference says a good deal more about you than I.

signed,

"drama queen" :rolleyes: (since we're having a ball applying stereotypes to one another)
 

B_Stronzo

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madame_zora said:
Seriously guys, this is kindergarten level shit, and it has been from the beginning. The fact that this administration is so fucking STUPID but still manages to get it's greasy ass past most of middle America makes me truly loathe my fellow man.

I completely disagree mz.

For me it's as important as you found the veiled racism thread. Nothing kindergarten about it.
 

b.c.

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Poor Stronzo. Your threads are the irony of ironies: In questioning the faith and beliefs of others, you reveal that you yourself have lost faith in something you obviously believed so strongly in.

I have no such passions. Someone once wrote (over 25 years ago) the following: "Wear thy religion with care lest it be torn."

Wanna know who said that? I DID. I do not here defend religion or a particular faith. My only "passion" is the right of Blacks, like all others, to believe in what we CHOOSE to. That's it.

On the other hand, you apparently had expected much more of your faith, to be so obviously embittered by it. You feel rejected by church doctrine (by the way - why do you have "no response" for your sexual preference?) and so in return you've rejected it - only, you want company, the company of other "repressed" people. Believe me, I understand.
 

b.c.

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Stronzo said:
No but it's certaily obnoxious and your inference says a good deal more about you than I.

signed,

"drama queen" :rolleyes: (since we're having a ball applying stereotypes to one another)

LOL! Yep! I can be a mean old bastard, can't I? :cool:
 

playainda336

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My God, Stronzo, what is the point?

First off, most of the scriptures talking about slavery were not A) Referring to Black people and B) The teachings of Jesus. Hence "Christ-ianity".

Even that one scripture was from a parable to relay that one should obey the teachings of God. That website was laughable at best.

And madame_zora, I'm sorry, but maybe I misread something...where did Jesus have a "slight" against Black people. When did Jesus have a "slight" against any race. Hell, it's bad enough most people think he had blonde hair and blue eyes, but now he's an institutionalized racist? Come on, now.

My only problem with your posts is that you seem to be falling into the category of what Shelby is placing you in. You feel that homosexuals deserve more pity than anyone else. My interrogative is this: Why should any deserve more pity?

Why should anyone want pity at all. To receive pity is to be looked down upon and frankly, I wouldn't want that and it's my desire that no one should. Man, gay people are discriminated against. That's a fact. But the other fact is that gay people have never been chased by dogs, enslaved, ripped apart by horses, decapitated, castrated, etc. Does that make Black people "higher" on the list of people discriminated on? No. Wrong is wrong, but dude...you seriously need to get off your high horse and stop smelling your own shit...for lack of a better phrase, of course.

Hate spawns more hate. So you post a site like this. What am I supposed to want to hate all Christianity who are dumb enough to follow the Old Testament? Especially when Christ implicitly said "Forget about it and follow the Golden Rule...Feed the Hungry, Clothe the Naked, and Free the Oppressed."

Seriously, dude. *shakes head*
 

Shelby

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Y'all are almost pissing me off.

Although you refuse to see it, Joe six pack living in his single wide ain't exactly got the world on a string.

Quit your whining, buck up, and earn the respect you deserve.

Or, keep on complaining so everyone can feel sorry for your poor misbegotten asses.

*not joking*
 

B_Stronzo

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Shelby said:
Y'all are almost pissing me off.

Although you refuse to see it, Joe six pack living in his single wide ain't exactly got the world on a string.

Quit your whining, buck up, and earn the respect you deserve.

Or, keep on complaining so everyone can feel sorry for your poor misbegotten asses.

*not joking*

** not joking either **

Your 'Joe six pack living in his single wide' has one thing the rest of those referenced do not; the ability to navigate his course in this life without fear of reprisal from "the man" no matter who 'the man' looks like ethnically.

If Joe six pack chooses to drink himself into bloated oblivion he does so entirely of his own accord.

playainda said:
My God, Stronzo, what is the point?

Obviously lost on you dude.

You've been allowed (I say once again) to slander gay people hugely as you hide behind your reference book - all the while refusing to recongize the same phenomon applied to your own.

Obviously you are unable to put youself in the shoes of others who now suffer the same injustices as those who personally sacrificed for you.

**shakes head in sad realization
 

B_Stronzo

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b.c. said:
Poor Stronzo.
And similarly 'poor' b.c. who had to be pressed to realize the inconsistencies of his beliefs.

Your threads are the irony of ironies: In questioning the faith and beliefs of others, you reveal that you yourself have lost faith in something you obviously believed so strongly in.
If you refer to the Christain faith I was only every really exposed to it in a social sense. I never believed in it. You misread me b.c.

I have no such passions. Someone once wrote (over 25 years ago) the following: "Wear thy religion with care lest it be torn."

Wanna know who said that? I DID.
Not particularly but since you insist on telling me okay; I think it's rather applicable to my refuting of yours and playainda's postings..:cool:

My only "passion" is the right of Blacks, like all others, to believe in what we CHOOSE to. That's it.
Somehow I doubt this contention dude since you only reluctantly (and with extreme reticence) allowed that my premise was just.

Poor b.c. .. forced to recognize the plight of homosexuals as comparable to that of black Americans.

On the other hand, you apparently had expected much more of your faith, to be so obviously embittered by it.
It was never 'my faith' once again. The only thing I'm 'embittered by' b.c. is the endless stupidty of a goodly portion of the heterosexual audience be they white, black, orange or crimson. Perhaps Madame zora is right. Yup she is. But I'm not 'heterophobic' as she once called me. I'm male hetero-distrusting (and with due cause I might add).

You feel rejected by church doctrine (by the way - why do you have "no response" for your sexual preference?)

to answer that odd quesiton I'll tell you that I have 'no resonse' because it's an irrelevant quesiton (excuse me... ought to be irrelvant). Sadly this thread is proof positive it's not quite yet reached that status.

You feel rejected by church doctrine and so in return you've rejected it - only, you want company, the company of other "repressed" people. Believe me, I understand.
Do you really?

Again you impose yourself on my experience.

I never felt rejected by something I never embraced. I take issue with the 'White Man's religion' since it oppresses people like you and me. That's a pretty simply concept b.c. wouldn't you say?

Now let's not transfer your frustration onto me by assigning me more religiousity than I could possibly muster.:rolleyes: You see dude, I loathe those politicians to whom you previously referred. Condi Rice's existence as the pawn of the white man should piss you off too dude. She's a fucking sell out. I view Barack Obama similarly. He's an Uncle Tom and just "white enough" to cut the mustard to the general middle American audience. Is it understandable? Yes. Is it acceptable on either his or Rice's terms? Never.

Now put Maya Angelou up for political consideration and I'll pay attention. Malcolm X would have done too but they killed off his mouthy ass now didn't they? Yup sure did.

May I respectfully suggest you not get too complacent in your perceived comfort zone. Here's something germane to my point my friend. I think it bears rereading:

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.



Pastor Martin Niemöller
 

B_Stronzo

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playainda336 said:
My only problem with your posts is that you seem to be falling into the category of what Shelby is placing you in. You feel that homosexuals deserve more pity than anyone else. My interrogative is this: Why should any deserve more pity?

Easy for you to say since you perceive of yourself as "accepted".

It's a ruse dude. Look to your greater American audience as Bronxy's thread illustrated time and time again. I don't want pity you idiot. I tell ya dude you appear to have a comprehension problem. Christ, you read only selectively and understand only from a point of view of "homosexuals having an agenda" which (apparently) threatens you.

Dude. We (or at least I can speak for myself here) don't want your cock or inclusion in that church of yours. We want you and those like you the fuck out of our bedrooms. Go away! Yes, run along now!! Not your business!! That's it. See how easy that was??:biggrin1:

Pity's for fairies. I want justice and equality. (And you called me the 'spin doctor'??:rolleyes:)
 

Lex

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Stronzo and b.c. -- I am very disappointed that you two are arguing about this in this way. Seriously. You two don't have to agree 100% on every little detail (or even some of the big ones) in order to see each other's situation and plight. 100% consensus is hard to get and wastes time sometimes when agreed-upon actions can be taken in the meanwhile.


Shelby said:
Y'all are almost pissing me off.

Although you refuse to see it, Joe six pack living in his single wide ain't exactly got the world on a string.

Quit your whining, buck up, and earn the respect you deserve.

Or, keep on complaining so everyone can feel sorry for your poor misbegotten asses.

*not joking*
Don't piss off the white man, ya'll.

When this happens, Jews, niggers, bitches and fags DIE.

You have been warned.
 

dreamer20

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playainda336 said:
... But the other fact is that gay people have never been chased by dogs, enslaved, ripped apart by horses, decapitated, castrated, etc.
...
Seriously, dude. *shakes head*
Wow! I never realized that dogs only chased "straight" people. I hope no one tells Dubya that as he would be using them to sniff all the gays out of the Republic.

What a preposterous statement to make considering the Matthew Shepard case and this one http://towleroad.typepad.com/towleroad/2006/04/st_maarten_gay_.html


and historically these two examples of persecution:

In Europe, circa 1233, persons who practiced m2m sex (labelled sodomites by the R.C.C.) , witches, and herectics( e.g. Jews) were among the targets of the Roman Catholic Church's Papal Inquistion. That church, and the states under its authority, labelled these persons as agents of the Devil, imprisoned, tortured and killed them. These atrocities continued until the Protestant Reformation shattered the Catholic Church's power.

After Adolph Hitler was named chancellor of Germany in 1933 his regime rounded up uncounted thousands of gays and took them to concentration camps. These captive persons, including blacks and Jews, were systematically exterminated by the Third Reich.


dreamer20
 

B_Stronzo

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Lex said:
Stronzo and b.c. -- I am very disappointed that you two are arguing about this in this way. Seriously. You two don't have to agree 100% on every little detail (or even some of the big ones) in order to see each other's situation and plight. 100% consensus is hard to get and wastes time sometimes when agreed-upon actions can be taken in the meanwhile.

I'm sorry for your disappointment Lex. I think highly of you and your good opinion.

I cannot embrace or accept any consensus of opinion (or compromise for that matter) when an indiviudal bases his entire argument on an history based in mythology rather than science. Playainda only addresses those things which suit his version of a selective bible-based reality. To me it's high myopia in just that way "disagreeing with the equality of other ethnicities" would be to him or you.

It's especially true Lex when he refuses to address how that same 'mythology' subjugated his own people for generations.

However, I am (from a personal standpoint) duty-bound to pick away at it and its outrageous flaws in just that same way many more folks dissected every last post written in the "thinly-veiled racism" thread.

To me this thread has equal importance. Perhaps to you it does not and if it doesn't I am disappointed in you.

In the larger picture I'm soberly more in the know with respect to how most members of this board will simply pass off homophobia where racial bias is landed on with "all fours". I've learned a great deal and it's been an unhappy realization I can tell you.

Dr Rock gets it. But he, dreamer, and Mkymkus seem to be about the only ones. Interesting that.





Don't piss off the white man, ya'll.

When this happens, Jews, niggers, bitches and fags DIE.

You have been warned.

Not at the hand of this 'white man' they don't. This white man's simply more informed and will incorporate it into his reality. I never begrudge the learning experience no matter how much I may not like the knowledge gained.