Lex said:
SIGH.
I disagree here with you, Stronzo, and I love you enough to say so. I think in reading these last few posts, that b.c. really highlighted where he IS on the same page with you while also showcasing where he took some exception or has divergent thought.
This is remarkably similair to the veiled racism thread where you and I debated/argued for pages until we both (each?) took a break and reflected and really found the common ground that seemed to not be there before hand because we are both too busy trying to be heard and beat the other down with our point of view to effectively listen and reflect (this is not a condemnation).
I have no 'common ground' with him (unlike you) for one painfully obvious reason: he's a heterosexual male. Were he white, middle class and monied he'd still have the same stance. There's effectively no difference. Here I'm expected (and largely do) to understand the plight of generational black Americans where the abuses to homosexuals at the hands of the religion he'd serve to defend seem somehow not worthy of real commentary only to reluctantly say "oh I get it" with due exhaustion.
Similarly, were I to have expressed "oh I'm so sick of black Americans going on about racial equality" I'd have been lambasted off this fucking board. My point Lex? The two, for me , are equal in their need for social rectification and reconciliation. However that has distinctly
not been the case when it comes to my black brothers and sisters (I expect no commentary of any great length from my white ones since by-in-large I find them pretty self-involved) bolstering my own in our common fight.
BronxBombshell is so absent from this conversation it screams for her input. A myriad of white posters weighed in on that thread to express sympathy and fellowship. What's here?? Largely horseshit. With the notable exceptions of you and Fred and player and select others, the homosexual plight is pretty much "oh
them again" (or at least that's what I've gotten from this lame discussion).
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Here's where I am in unequivocal terms: I, as a happy and proud homosexual man, am fighting for my very existence in this "land of the free" while others who could lend an immensely helpful hand are sitting back wiping their brows implying "better them than us" since they perceive themselves mainstreamed. Well it's a lie. I'm living it and I tell you it's a lie. That's the very reason I posted the "then they came for me" poem so known to so many oppressed peoples.
Did I expect more especially from our black members? Yes, I did. But I'm now of the distinct opinion that no one can truly understand or participate (unlike those white civil rights workers who travelled to the deep south in the 1960s from New York and gave their lives for the equaliy of
all Americans) unless they are homosexual in this sobering present-day attack on your people and mine Lex: gays, bisexuals, lesbians (though less so) and trans-gender people.
I suggest everyone with a civic bone in his or her body pay very strict attention to the not-so-subtle force in this country manifest on this board most overtly by the posts of that nasty little "playainda" who not only wears his prejudice on his sleeve but takes due glee in repeating it to incite.
Again were he a white middle class bigot aiming his biased rhetoric against blacks he'd have been figuratively lynched by now.
The inequity of the thing is palpable to me and all because of that endlessly corrupting old tome every uses as a launching pad for contrary rhetoric; The Old and New Testaments.
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Additionally, there's has never been an effort to 'beat others down' on my part Lex. If I can defend my stance on this issue it should come as no great surprise to you. I can and I do. If you construe that as 'beating down' then good. I've been effective for I'll 'beat down' all bias and prejudice (no matter how subtle) wherever it rears it's destructive head.
I'm entirely aware of myself and my motivations to know what's in my heart. As I stated in the very beginning of the sister thread to this one re the imposition of the "White Man's Religion" I was only interested in the broad take of those of African descent who were brought here against there will and stipped of all pieces of their background only to (of necessity) be drawn to a religion (Christianity) that has served them - in many instances - well.
I've gone over the social implications of it the other thread ad infinitum. I acknowledge time and time again the "saving" quality of that institution on it
social importance to the subsequent generations.
However, I find (nearly without exception) every LPSG poster of Afam descent defending the
present day form of the morphing of that religion into the cultural black norm. For the last time:
I get that part.
Again, I'll refer you back to my original thread-starting post:
Stronzo said:
So, in the spirit of "playainda336's" post regarding homosexuality on that thread I'd like to ask others who are black how they reconcile practicing a faith handed them by those of European descent?
I realize the significance of Christianity to those of African descent in a social context in as much as it was the glue which held community together in past generations when there was little else to hold onto. But how can the concept of bigotry and social marginalization be so lost on many in the current generations when only one or two generations ago the same bias was imposed on ethnic peoples in just that same way as homosexuals are challenged and ostracized today? It defies logic and comprehension to me.
Or is that just the point; when it comes to Christianity logic is heaved out the window?
For my boyfriend and me, when we were arguing pro gay marriage in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts two years ago, we were perlexed by those among the Black community who were so adamantly against homosexuality per se and using the Bible as their reference point. These are the same people whose ancestor's religion was denied them as was the sum total of their existence when they were forced to these shores against their will.
I'd especially like the response of those on the board who have the perspective of both situations.
I have my own argument certainly with the Christian church but I'd think many in the Black community would be aghast at the nature of how this same theology has now focused itself on another minority. Oddly, it doesn't seem to be the case often.
I hope that restates my position in ultimate clarity.
I've not once seen anyone (black or white or orange) justify the
use of that same religion by those who should take equal issue to ostracize their homosexual brethren.
What I have seen is endless excuses for it's existence in today's form.
Comparatively, I dare say were I to suddenly find that same faith recinding its position on homosexuals I'd watch my fellow gay folks charging back to Christianity to embrace it...
What I truly find sobering is that so many of these responders (in particular b.c.) take on an apologist's stance on the Christian faith which subjugated their own people (hence the initiation of this off-shoot thread) and turning a blind eye to the very sort of condemnation anti-abolitionists used to rid this land of racial inequality during the days prior to the War Between the States.
The selectivity of it (especially from seemingly intelligent people) astounds me. Again, I say when it comes to Christianity all bets are off. That nasty corrupting faith (sorry Fred.. you know I love you) has done more damage to humankind than I can possibly recount here. And still it does more in the overt intent of subjeciting and objectifying
your gay brothers Lex to a position of marginalization.
Debate and disagreement do not have to yield argument and malcontent. Sometimes, more kinship can grow from it, no?
I'll go with 'no'. Not in b.c.'s case. I made an effort at reconciliation to which he immedately responded (in what amounted to a pretty clever set up) to accuse me of things that were manifest from his insecurities not my implications. Nasty shot that.
But again, I'm informed and englighted though not in the manner I'd hoped. For that alone I have good appreciation much as I don't like the realization.
Stronzo.