the Bible on slavery

B_Stronzo

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ruinean said:
Humanity must shake this idiocy or die.

Pure unadulterated prophecy.

Thanks.

b.c said:
yeah... after all, I can't possibly already have one...I'm Black

For the love of Pete! You had one! What do you think I'm fucking talking about here??

The DNA experiments in which Whoopi Goldberg took part to establish her African tribal roots (along with vast numbers of other notables) is proof positive that the need for reconnection is there and real.

I'm on your side b.c. Why do you want to see me as something oppressive simply because I want your help here??
 

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Stronzo said:
I have no 'common ground' with him (unlike you) for one painfully obvious reason: he's a heterosexual male. Were he white, middle class and monied he'd still have the same stance. There's effectively no difference. Here I'm expected (and largely do) to understand the plight of generational black Americans where the abuses to homosexuals at the hands of the religion he'd serve to defend seem somehow not worthy of real commentary only to reluctantly say "oh I get it" with due exhaustion. ...............
Stronzo.

GEEZ Stronzo!!! Were you waiting for dinner to be ready or something? That is one terribly LONG Comment:biggrin1:

But it was full of good points, so I can forgive you
 

b.c.

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Lex said:
SIGH.

I disagree here with you, Stronzo, and I love you enough to say so. I think in reading these last few posts, that b.c. really highlighted where he IS on the same page with you while also showcasing where he took some exception or has divergent thought.

This is remarkably similair to the veiled racism thread where you and I debated/argued for pages until we both (each?) took a break and reflected and really found the common ground that seemed to not be there before hand because we are both too busy trying to be heard and beat the other down with our point of view to effectively listen and reflect (this is not a condemnation).

Debate and disagreement do not have to yield argument and malcontent. Sometimes, more kinship can grow from it, no?

I'm outta here for a bit--these racism/religion threads (and coming out) have really exhausted me. You guys have fun.

Hugs all around.

I appreciate, Lex, that you "get it" and know exactly what I'm saying and where I'm coming from on this. Stronzo doesn't because (by his own suggestion) he has "no common ground" with me. He has no idea how wrong he is on that point, but it seems that everything has to be "his way or the highway" with Stronzo...he isn't given to compromise (as another member noted in another thread).

What's ironic (and strikes me with some degree of amusement) is that I appear in these posts to be some defender of Christianity and religion in general. Never thought in a million years I could ever be perceived as such. I who fairly loathe Christian Fundamentalists, those conservative "holier than thous" who speak of God in every other sentence, but do and think evil things and follow narrow minded concepts. Well aware, I am, of the effects of religion on social order (the cause of many a war and genocide), its effects on the obliteration of native cultures (and peoples) the world over (the continuing Muslim extermination the Nuba, for example) via some missionary's zeal to "spread their word".

I could go on and on but that it would seem an overly ingratiating attempt on my part to qualify me as something akin to Stonzo on this line of thinking, when in fact, I don't care if he believes I am or not. Suffice it to say, I am no lover or defender of religion.

But what I do (and have defended) I think is the right of every individual to make a personal choice as to what he/she wants to believe in, as to what religion, if any, one wants to follow.

Stronzo seems to unequivocably reject all religion and all followers of any religion because (as he confided in another thread) he quit his church and rejected his religion when he discovered how they view homosexuals.

I think there is a distinction between faith and religious dogma anyway. There's a whole bunch of things one could reject one's "church" for. Besides homosexuality, many religions take a dim view on birth control, pre maritial sex, abortion, gambling, drug abuse, family planning...the list goes on. Plenty of reasons to reject the church (any church). But even that was not the bone of contention I had with Stronzo's take on the subject.

I guess I found myself wondering what was all this concern about African American faith in particular? As I noted somewhere in an above post, there are plenty of targets to go after with regard to religion's persecution of homosexuality: the so-called Moral Majority, the conservative Christian fundamentalists who hold sway over the President, Congress, the Supreme Court, the churches themselves that set doctrine and all those "family value" bastards who presume to tell us how we should live our lives. Plenty enough to rage against, no?

But instead, his focus is on African Americans who (in his view) have accepted a religion that is not their own, a religion that has oppressed us, and one that WE (mind you) are now using to oppress homosexuals. We are the enemy because we have the audacity to now "perceive [ourselves] mainstreamed", and (in his mind) "are sitting back, wiping [our] brows and thinking 'better them [gays] than us'".

All of this, of course, causes me to wonder just how much "on my side" he really is. Call into question how connected he is to his ancestrial religions and he is quick to say his ancestry (and religion) are well intact, while in almost the same breath he insists that I (and therefore, all Black people) HAD a religion. How unenlightened we all are, that he needs must save us from ourselves.

And this is perhaps the crux of my problem with Stronzo's threads. Not his take on religion (we agree) or its effects on the world, or its divisiveness, or influences on war, conflict, discrimination and the like.

Rather, it is his elitist type of presumptiveness to think he can tell a people what it is they should believe in, to presume to tell us we had no choice. (F**k!! we have a choice NOW... we make them every day). In his mind we (Blacks) need return to our roots, to discover and practice some original African religion practiced by an untraceable ancestry (notwithstanding any other ancestry we may also have ties to). After all, Whoopi did it.

It's as if he's saying the ancestry of African Americans, the culture, the practices, the faith, the entire American experience is a lie...of no consequence...should be of no inherent value to African Americans. Quite and eye opener, to discover that we've been living a lie...in a fool's paradise, I guess. What a condescending load of crap!

I understand he wants our help. But don't dictate to me what my choices should be. And I think I can decide for myself, what is or what isn't "a lie", thank you very much.
 

findfirefox

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It would truly be easier to convince someone "2+2=Chicken Fucker" then change their views on faith. (Or anything in that general subject)

Needs to be said.
 

B_Stronzo

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findfirefox said:
It would truly be easier to convince someone "2+2=Chicken Fucker" then change their views on faith.
Needs to be said.

That's so true it leaps from these pages - though my detractor (I believe) professes to have none. I'm convinced he's threatened to his very foundation by my candor.

So I return to my orignal premise: It's pure socializaiton.

b.c. said:
It's as if he's saying the ancestry of African Americans, the culture, the practices, the faith, the entire American experience is a lie...of no consequence...should be of no inherent value to African Americans. Quite and eye opener, to discover that we've been living a lie...in a fool's paradise, I guess. What a condescending load of crap!

No, what you've just written is.

For you - an intelligent man - to have gotten that out of all my efforts here is the height of projection. Doll?? We're all living a 'fool's paradise'.
 

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Stronzo said:
That's so true it leaps from these pages - though my detractor (I believe) professes to have none. I'm convinced he's threatened to his very foundation by my candor.

So I return to my orignal premise: It's pure socializaiton.



No, what you've just written is.

For you - an intelligent man - to have gotten that out of all my efforts here is the height of projection. Doll?? We're all living a 'fool's paradise'.

The only thing I find "threatening" is posturing by some would be benefactor to the "Black cause" who seems quite ready to dismiss the entire Black experience in America as a lie, simply because he's had a falling out with his own church and wants our help in bringing it down.

While you're at it, why don't you just charter a large boat to return all us "poor lost souls" back to the land of our ancestral roots.
 

B_Stronzo

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b.c. said:
I appreciate, Lex, that you "get it" and know exactly what I'm saying and where I'm coming from on this. Stronzo doesn't because (by his own suggestion) he has "no common ground" with me. He has no idea how wrong he is on that point, but it seems that everything has to be "his way or the highway" with Stronzo...he isn't given to compromise (as another member noted in another thread).



You're certainly no more 'given to compromise' than you accuse me. I made an effort and you took is a free-for-all to nail me with your slanted inferences to my real intent in starting this thread. Where's your commentary on the Bible's position on slavery?? NON-EXISTENT, that's where.

You've nearly (by inference) called me a racist. And I'll challenge anyone who implies it since I'm speaking here (since it appears to have entirely escaped you) of all human rights.

I have no 'common ground' with you because quite simply you won't have it. The moment I attempted to find any you gave me a placating first liner then took a distorted shot at nearly everything I'd written to justify the stance of some (some I said not all) black Americans when they heave that bullshit at homosexuals. It bears due comparison to the Bible's take on slavery (illustrated and linked in first post at this thread) all of which you've duly ignored.

Why b.c. is there a 'his way' I ask you? You illustrate my point with precision. There ought only be an 'our way'. You simply insist on personalizing this thing in what can only be an effort to distance yourself from what should be our common struggle: the freedom from the restrictive nature of what some Christains have done and would do to both our situations historically.

You forget my man that my own uncle is an Episcopal priest. You want to talk about a generational history with bloody Christianity? (word 'bloody' used advisedly) I can easily trace my Christian roots to the earliest introduction of it the British Isles but I'm not naive enough to suggest that makes it any more acceptable because my grandparents and great grandparents enjoyed Bible study and bean suppers on Saturday night. When my 17th century anabaptist ancestors were being persecuted in England they were forced to flee in the night to the Netherlands to find political asylum then on to the new world where (typically) they prohibited anyone who didn't think precisely as they did to leave the fold and take a hike or fear death by fire. The founding of Providence, Rhode Island was captained by my own 14th great grandfather Roger Williams in order to distance himself from the very sort of absolutism from which Lex and I and our brothers suffer today. Oh wait! I'm white. I don't get to have a history of religious persecution do I? Sorry, forgot.

Seems a common theme, no? Once the group is solidly formed and inclusive it slams that nasty door of judgment right behind it. We, as a species, it appears have a very short memory. You're rantings about my intent are proof positive of that.

How you can miss this is baffling.

And did you really need to enlist Lex to the 'your' camp? Does it make you somehow feel safer if he says something directed at me because I'm the "man" (in my white homosexual suit...) but still the man? Or is it that I'm the homosexual "man" for the most part? I cannot figure out which bothers you more.

I'm not the enemy unless you make me into him b.c. And if that's what you need to do to justify what that fucking black Baptist preacher and his wife did two years ago at the town meeting in Boston about gay marriage you go right ahead and defend it. If you'd bother to look back to my post re "impostion of white man's religion" you'd see that was the basis for my bringing this phenomenon to public attention.

Just don't expect me to take that crap laying down or standing up. I'm wise to it and no amount of "survival by the religion" is going to make me believe it's anything more in the black community than it is in its present-day form:

Bible-abuse of the first order.

My Protestant ancestors had to practice their faith in secret in the night for if caught would be put to death without benefit of trial. Indeed my only French line is French Huguenot (French Protestant) and those same people suffered at the hands of no less than the likes of Catherine de Medici as she rounded them up for her famous St. Bartholemew's Day Massacre.

Dude? You're not the only one with a history of subjugation on many levels nor one of abuse. Yours is only more recent. And before we both go off half-cocked and condemn one another any further I suggest we learn from the lessons of history rather than defend them.

Unreal.
 

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b.c. said:
The only thing I find "threatening" is posturing by some would be benefactor to the "Black cause" who seems quite ready to dismiss the entire Black experience in America as a lie, simply because he's had a falling out with his own church and wants our help in bringing it down.

While you're at it, why don't you just charter a large boat to return all us "poor lost souls" back to the land of our ancestral roots.

You're a paranoic.

There's no other explanation. You're beyond the ability to understand anything beyond your own experience.
 

b.c.

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Stronzo said:
I made an effort and you took is a free-for-all to nail me with your slanted inferences to my real intent in starting this thread.

Yep. You feel "sucker punched" because i followed your response where there was some agreement with the other one. Not a set up or sucker punch. Had intended it to go with first one but forgot to put it in. Both are valid posts in my opinion.

Stronzo said:
You've nearly (by inference) called me a racist. And I'll challenge anyone who implies it since I'm speaking here (since it appears to have entirely escaped you) of all human rights.

Jury still out on that one...haven't yet decided...

Stronzo said:
The founding of Providence, Rhode Island was captained by my own 14th great grandfather Roger Williams in order to distance himself from the very sort of absolutism from which Lex and I and our brothers suffer today. Oh wait! I'm white. I don't get to have a history of religious persecution do I? Sorry, forgot.

Funny you'd mention Williams... I was just thinking of him and others like him. Seems I can recall (correct me if I'm wrong) that he and others like him, when they grew dissatisfied with their church, went out and started their own.

Stronzo said:
And did you really need to enlist Lex to the 'your' camp? Does it make you somehow feel safer if he says something directed at me because I'm the "man" (in my white homosexual suit...) but still the man? Or is it that I'm the homosexual "man" for the most part? I cannot figure out which bothers you more.

I didn't "enlist' anyone and your being homosexual is of no significance to me. Oh, and don't be offended by this, but you're not "the man", Stronzo.

Stronzo said:
I'm not the enemy unless you make me into him b.c. And if that's what you need to do to justify what that fucking black Baptist preacher and his wife did two years ago at the town meeting in Boston about gay marriage you go right ahead and defend it. If you'd bother to look back to my post re "impostion of white man's religion" you'd see that was the basis for my bringing this phenomenon to public attention.

I don't recall where anything I said was in defense of "that fucking black Baptist preacher" or any other preacher, white or black, with regard to gay marriage.
 

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b.c. said:
Yep. You feel "sucker punched" because i followed your response where there was some agreement with the other one. Not a set up or sucker punch. Had intended it to go with first one but forgot to put it in. Both are valid posts in my opinion.

There was no agreement. It, as aforestated, was a set up so you could call me a racist since I think many black Americans (and now gay ones) have been hoodwinked by the Christian faith which you construed into my denying black people the community of the Christian church.

You knew precisely what you were doing and if that's what you previously referred to as an 'olive branch' it was riddled with thorns.



Jury still out on that one...haven't yet decided...

I'm not subject to for your scrutiny on that count. I know my mind. But you, on the other hand, with your "white man in charge" horsemanure directed at my ass proves without exception that you're a racist. Here's that quote of yours just in case you've forgotten:

b.c. from two pages back said:
In short: Let's all not be brothers and sisters just when it's politically expedient for us. I said this somewhere else here in this forum before: People too often vote for candidates because they believe their guy is going to do something about "those people".

Then they discover, they are "those people".

Was that simply a sentiment of convenience or were you have a sane spell?


Funny you'd mention Williams... I was just thinking of him and others like him. Seems I can recall (correct me if I'm wrong) that he and others like him, when they grew dissatisfied with their church, went out and started their own.

Yes I know the history. It happens to be my own genealogically of which (purely on a Caucasian level) I'm not proud. In it's revised version once transplanted to Providence Plantations it renewed that age-old predisposition to Christian bias to which 400 years later I still have the courage to take issue. In its Rhode Island form Williams and Anne Hutchinson were only slightly less tolerant after all was said and done. I'm not dissatisfied with any church since they all bear such overtly bigoted similarities in more or less specific dogma. My point is that I am 'dissatisfied' with Christianity (more like repulsed by it) for how it excluded your ancestors by scripture and would attempt to do the same by mine by those same means today.

I know you can read but can you comprehend? Jury's still out.



I didn't "enlist' anyone and your being homosexual is of no significance to me. Oh, and don't be offended by this, but you're not "the man", Stronzo.

If you believed that then you'd have stopped with your 'olive branch' post. Your diatribes since prove I am. But to you even white gay people (even though they share a common history of persecution) are still not comparable to your historical plight are they b.c.? And I know without a question of a doubt that were I a heterosexual black man you'd have never implied the vile things you have to me. Look to your own messy backyard before you project your leftover angst toward me. I didn't do it dude. Weren't you the one to previously profess we stopped making this an "us and them" thing? Yes, I believe that was you.



I don't recall where anything I said was in defense of "that fucking black Baptist preacher" or any other preacher, white or black, with regard to gay marriage.
You didn't. Just my point. Now please keep on topic thread-wise finally. I've brooked your defensive off-topic rantings for pages now.

I posted this Biblical references to slavery (which far outweigh those on homsoexuality) to get you and others to see the selectivity of using that book to justify bigotry. You've yet to post on topic.

How do you reconcile the incongruity of the two b.c.? You've been so busy trying to paint me as a racist you've lost sight of the premise here. Are you able to detach long enough to comment on it? I'd be terribly interested to know.
 

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I think I already stated my take, in my first responses, on Biblical references to slavery. But, if not being in complete agreement with you and raising questions about your focus makes me a racist then so be it.

Apparently any comment that doesn't agree with your take on things is an effort in futility, and not worth the effort at that.

I tire of trying to reason with an (obviously) unreasonable person (as some others here apparently already have). Seems I'm the only one entertaining you.... no more.

This will be my last response in this thread, or in any other thread of your creation for that matter.

Have a happy life.
 

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To view with utter resistance and lack of reason someone who will refute your contentions as 'unreasonable' I think pretty much says it all.

If this is 'entertainment' you flatter youself unduly. It's more like sticking bamboo shoots under my fingernails every time I click on this thread.
I've tried ever which way possible to make you aware that this is an issue of grave concern to me (as it ought to be to you) since I think there is a remarkable inequity in the way most people and indeed some (and certainly most if not all black people who post on this board) view gay rights in comparison to black civil rights.

Nearly all posters weighed in on BronxBombshell's implied racism thread - gay and straight. Here the numbers have been soberingly few.

I have equal disdain for my own gay brothers who I'd have hoped would have weighed in on the issue. They, too, are disappointingly silent.

You've endlessly attempted to deflect the conversation away from its real premise by erroneously accusing me of disallowing you and those of similar heritage your own black experience in this land. Christ if I were as sensitive as you are about it I'd be boycotting the Kennedy Compound daily in an effort to have those "damned Irish Catholic usurpers" (as my great grandmother called them) give me back my Yankee Boston. But that would be futile and simply wrong.

The notion's absurd. But the premise is age-old: We're "in" and someone has to be the little guy now. It's a basic problem in with the founding premise of this country and it appears it's as alive and well as it was during the days of N.I.N.A. (no Irish need apply) and when Rosa Parks was relegated to the back of the bus.

b.c.?

Until we address all social woes and realize that that genesis (again word used advisedly) is - at least in part - to be found in that Bible they've hurled at both of us we're no better than those who went before.

And therein lies the lesson. The homogenization of all peoples is the goal here .. or it ought to be. And to that end I've belabored my point with you. At least you've had to read it. That's satisfaction enough.

You'll find me entirely reasonable when I'm addressed as an equal and when board fervor for all human rights issues is as profound as it was manifest on BB's thread. Until that time you can make of me what you will. It doesn't effect my position because that's resolute.

Similarly, I look forward to blessed silence with respect to your input on any threads I create on this board in the future.

Thanks. I am having a happy life. I appreciate the warm sentiment.
 

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Stronzo said:
Nearly all posters weighed in on BronxBombshell's implied racism thread - gay and straight. Here the numbers have been soberingly few.

I have equal disdain for my own gay brothers who I'd have hoped would have weighed in on the issue. They, too, are disappointingly silent.

You are right but there's been a few 'religion/race' oriented threads the last few weeks and I noticed that many or indeed most elicited similar responses and seemed to end up in a series of increasingly acrimonious exchanges (and I include myself in this) and somewhere amid the 'anger' the ability to discuss rationally was lost.

Such topics provoke passion as they should but sometimes....I think one can become at least temporarily de-sensitised, especially if one is not directly on the receiving end of such predjudice. That's not an excuse for complacency just my take. I don't believe it's because we don't care...quite the reverse, its just while all people care some of the time and some people care all of the time ; not all people care all of the time.

Singling out your 'gay brothers' so overtly (to me) runs a risk of invoking a sense in others of a tacit acceptance of being 'differerent' and thus a need to gang together..which I would argue is counter productive in the context of open discussions about emotive subjects.

I know that's not what you meant but I don't doubt some here will read it that way or as a subconsious 'plea for backup'. Remember, as people they no doubt get de-sensitised just as much as the next person. But...don't worry, I'm sure passionate debate on will be back on the menu real soon.:biggrin1:
 

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dong20 said:
You are right but there's been a few 'religion/race' oriented threads the last few weeks and I noticed that many or indeed most elicited similar responses and seemed to end up in a series of increasingly acrimonious exchanges (and I include myself in this) and somewhere amid the 'anger' the ability to discuss rationally was lost.

Thanks dong my reasonable friend.

I've noticed the impass thing too. As one astute previous poster stated trying to discuss religion reasonably (or any of its variable issues) is like trying "to convince someone 2+2=Chicken Fucker"


Singling out your 'gay brothers' so overtly (to me) runs a risk of invoking a sense in others of a tacit acceptance of being 'differerent' and thus a need to gang together..which I would argue is counter productive in the context of open discussions about emotive subjects.

Well. Yeah, I know. But they are my gay brothers (I mean in the all-inculsive non-gender sense here). We've been relegated to the "them" status so at this point in our history I feel I have little recourse but to address them as a separate entity.

I know that's not what you meant but I don't doubt some here will read it that way or as a subconsious 'plea for backup'.
I'm so fucking glad you got that. It's been immensely disappointing that there's been so little. Look, I'm no one's "float rider" at some gay-arse parade but dammit this thing's going to take hands on work.

To think some English dude (and a heterosexual to boot :tongue: ) gets this is high encouragement to me.

Thanks.
 

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BronxBombshell said:
No. You and I do not have an understanding. I'm so tired of arguing with you. You do not hear me, and I have, as a result, precious little desire to hear you if I actually have to talk back.

I've never suggested we had an 'understanding'. I never implied we did and I like that we don't since I'm on to you. And what's to 'hear'? You have nothing to say. You imagine racism where none exists. That was proven.

You're someone I'd never care to know personally since you're aggressive without understanding, open-minded only to what effects you, and dismissive with regard to the experiences of those different from you.

How accusatory and mouthy you were on your "thinly-veiled racism", eh? You brow-beat until you had to swallow your accusations whole.

I find it humourous that your purported passion for the human condition only applies to issues related to self. It was as I thought. It was based in pure self-involvement.

In truth your previous thread was a prelude to this and you've just taken the bait. Your notion of equality is selective BronxBombshell and be assured I hold you as accountable as you tried to hold me in those overt indictments of racism you attempted to hurl at me. You're one of the homophobes this thread outs. Thanks for the reassuring reply.

You're a fraud on many levels.
 

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No, Stronzo, (and I swear, you can have the last word after this) it's not that I'm unconcerned about this issue. It's that you're involved. I was interested in one of your other threads, but you,to paraphrase Shakespeare, can only hear what you need to hear. You do not really invite debate, and there are those here who can see that as clearly as I do. I'm a fraud? You're on ot me? Who's imagining things now. With me, what you see is what you get. No, it is I who am on to you. You are a libelous, racist, elitist prick. Because of that, and not because of this topic which does, in fact, interest me greatly, I choose not to enter the on topic conversation here.
 
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BronxBombshell said:
No, Stronzo, (and I swear, you can have the last word after this) it's not that I'm unconcerned about this issue. It's that you're involved. I was interested in one of your other threads, but you,to paraphrase Shakespeare, can only hear what you need to hear. You do not really invite debate, and there are those here who can see that as clearly as I do. I'm a fraud? You're on ot me? Who's imagining things now. With me, what you see is what you get. No, it is I who am on to you. You are a libelous, racist, elitist prick. Because of that, and not because of this topic which does, in fact, interest me greatly, I choose not to enter the on topic conversation here.

Oh shove it up your double-standard arse.

I guess if I get to be a 'prick' then you're a cunt. Works for me.

Before your set-up thread it was different but then you changed the rules. You set the unkindness standard. And you're right.. I am a prick when need be. And you ain't seen nothin' yet.

I've learned to treat people precisely the way they treat me and you, sweetness, are one rotten chick. Fraud piece out of it... your personality and personal agenda shines through no matter who you really are.

It's never been about the last word Bronxy. You're a fraud. That's what it's about. It's just that your 'hot topic' thread sought to nail me as the racist you must think I am to reconcile me in your brain. Sure can dish it out babe but you're shitty at taking it. Where's all your passion now? Hmmmm. Where are your condemnations of injustices to both black Americans and gays alike. Nowhere, that's where. Fraud.

This thread and the other one I created was a direct result of what you did. You needed to be made accountable for slander. I just gave it a bit so you'd be caught off-guard. Worked too. It was really about outing you. I'm glad I've made you rise to the occasion this easily. After all one good turn deserves another as you write from your "Bronx Brownstone" :rolleyes:

Before your 'thinly-veiled' thread it was always about being reasonable but you changed the rules. You and select other black posters (if you really are...) with the single exception of Lex have made every effort to mark me as a racist. They've manouvered and contorted my words to make as though I'm denying people their religious beliefs or American heritage:rolleyes: .. Total bullshit. But no one's been successful for one reason only; I'm not what you'd make me into no matter how hard you try. Sorry to disappoint. You'll just have to live with it babe.

And only speak for yourself not for 'those here' since I suspect they can speak well enough for themselves.

I imagine nothing but what I see on this board Bronxy. And I know a ruse when I see one - internet or otherwise.

But while we're speaking of 'those here'? I have a small group of several here who've pmed me that you're not what or who you appear. They're as positive of it as I. There's definitely something up. I know it and you know it.

You can fashion me into a racist or an elitist or anything else that makes you comfortable so you can wrap your brain around that fact that you're powers of inclusion are exclusive to that which effects only you. Your plan backfired doll.

And sweetie? You 'chose not to enter the topic' because but one thing:

You don't give a shit about all human rights.... you only introduced your topic to exhibit your own pride at reverse snobbery and to work through your odd dislike of me. Here's a Xanax. It'll help temporarily.

Now get off my thread.