Right, there are two main schools of thought with regards to the creation of the universe. 1. the big bang theory. 2. god made it. the problems i have are 1. if there was nothing before the big bang. what made the bang? (there must have been something) 2. if god made it where did he live before he made the universe. and how do we get there? What are your thoughts?
No, no, no. 1. The Big Bang is the earliest recognizable form of our cosmos; anything prior to that cannot be described, hence we say the cosmos 'began' at the Big Bang, though whatever it was may have always existed. 2. If God created the cosmos, who/what created God? And if God always existed, why not the cosmos? First Cause arguments are all so dumb.
From my limited reading there was nothing before the big bang. i agree that it is the start point for everything we know. but if there was something before the big bang, where did it go or is it still here? also which came first beer or idiots?
Sean Connery made the earth and several planets as well. If one spends too much time trying to figure it all out, it becomes far too confusing.
We are but a speck of matter in a universe so large that it is impossible to wrap our minds around it. Our time began with the big bang. We probably are bits and pieces of matter that had been spread across the universe at an astounding rate, and slowed to where we are now. My thought is we were flying about as other bits of matter, and we got trapped in our current sun's gravitational pull, which slowed us down, but put us into an orbit. As time went on, our planet developed, went though many cycles and got us to where we are today. Not sure about they 2012 calendar. I wouldn't say it's the end of the world. More the end of an Era as we know it - mabee.
In some way's it's a logical problem, an 'error' that arises from describing continuous phenomenon using discrete references. There is functionally no difference between 'nothing' and 'a thing about which nothing can be said' within an explanatory framework. Essentially, yes. If matter is energy and energy is neither created nor destroyed, then all of existence is one, eternal energy "being" that is constantly changing forms. They came together at my last party. . . .....
If you believed as the ancients who postulated the creation story of Genesis did, circa 3,761 B.C., you'd state that you cannot get there. They believed after death their souls went to the underworld and not to some heavenly abode. Thousands of years later a number of their descendants founded a Christian mythology wherein they thought the souls of the dead were destined to abide in a heaven or a hell. This isn't the first time that the mythical creation story of Genesis has been pitted against the "big bang" theory. The former tale is but an ancient myth whereas the latter is scientific theory: 20
What i'd like people to state is what they think happened at t=0. from what you know or believe, what do YOU THINK HAPPENED. if you follow the big bang, creationist or something else.
I don't think there is such thing as time = 0 in the way that you are thinking of it. The way most people think of time, it is infinite in both directions. If you have a start point, you always have time before it. Unless you go with Space-Time, which can be interpreted differently. If you believe space is the medium of the universe, and anything outside of that is something else, then before the big bang there would be no space, and thus no time. Which would make t=0 being that the big bang happened, or at least the start of the big bang.
As an aside to this conversation, I thought you guys might be interested in reading this article: New observations of galactic clusters have revealed a controversial phenomenon called dark flow, which could be a sign of parallel universes. One prominent, albeit controversial theory of how the big bang came to be is that two parallel universes (ours and another one separated or phased from it by an infinitesimal degree in a hypothetical, unobservable dimension) collided, giving rise to the release of vast amounts of energy and rapid expansion in what we now consider the observable universe. Think of it as two sheets of saran wrap made of pure energy that are undulating and vibrating very close to one another. When they bump each other, there's an explosion and some of that energy condenses into matter because the saran wrap is sticky. Voila, us! The new and also controversial findings discussed in the linked article may provide some evidence for that theory.
The Universe is a perfect Recycle bin... Gravity itself has a huge part to play in the beginning of the Universe. At the moment of the Big Bang, matter was ejected from the singularity faster than the critical point that would have made it, after time, collapse back in on itself. And it is still travelling above this speed. Black holes also have a singularity, and also are famed for being so dense and have such a high gravitational pull, that we believe there to be "nothing" inside a black hole, because it has compressed itself to a single point. At the point of Black Holes "dying", they eject all of the mass/energy that they have accumulated back out in a huge burst. However, the matter that it has inside it has been compressed so much that it is now just protons, electrons, positrons, etc. And the heat that the huge compression caused, has made everything break down to very elementary particles. After the "ejection", the space around cools down very quickly, and the elementary particles are able to start fusing together again to make molecules, which then carry on to make the elements. The Big Bang could very well have been the same principle. Maybe one day the Universe will collapse in on it's own gravity, to a singularity again, and then after time start the whole process all over again. How the singularity got there in the first place is a completely different story, because you cant make something out of nothing! Common mathematics tells us that. Seeing as I'm going to Uni to study Astrophysics, I will get back to this thread in a couple years time. LOL P.S. I'm surprised that someone from Oldham would bring up such a great thread! Surely a Bluecoat boy?
Unless You believe in the Religious theories. ...And thus those of us who don't believe collide with those who do believe. No...matter isn't created in that collision, but... The rampant LPSG hostility that so many of us have been victims of rears it's ugly head. Science vs. theology? I ain't a-goin' near this one! :biggrin1:
Your reading must have been so limited that you didn't read about the big bang theory at all. Far from "nothing" existing, or "t=0", the theory postulates "the Universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past (best available measurements in 2009 suggest that the initial conditions occurred around 13.3 to 13.9 billion years ago[3][4]), and continues to expand to this day..." Big Bang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also what is interesting supposedly the shape of the universe is in question as well. Supposedly scientist have guesstimated our universe to be in the shape of off blob with appendages and such. Universal laws within these area may be completely different. Also we must consider this, space/time are completely different. Our perception of things give a marker for time in which we need to see a beginning. From our perspective there needs to be a start point and an end point. Yet some theorist believe "Time" has neither an end or beginning... it is just is. If we looks to various culturals we also find examples of cyclic creations. In the Aztec and Mayan pantheon the world was created and destroyed at least four times. I believe in the Egyptian Pantheon likewise the world was created twice when Ra's first version was displeasing. Looking at these myths, we can guess that something was there before... it changes and recycles itself.... perhaps some remnants of its previous incarnation survive?
_avg is right. BB theory does not state that there was nothing before the BB. But rather it describes the formation of matter and the laws of physics starting at some small amount of time into the BB. What existed before that time, is so far not described. If you want to speculate that there was nothing before that moment, you are welcome to do that, but you would be making stuff up. There is nothing in BB theory that forbids something being there before the BB. Also, First Cause arguments are bogus. They fail in the initial assumption, which is usually, "Everything has a cause." This fails for a number of reasons, but mostly because it assumes that causality has a meaning outside of our universe, or before the universe was formed.
