The burning bride

[B_Nicodemous]

Bumping this thread.I have a few thoughts on this subject, as well as some of the tangets that have come a cropper. At work on short break, so will respond in depth in a bit...

 

[basincreek]

Yeah, lets bomb the shit out of L.A. to stop the Bloods.

Carpet bombing....no. One smart bomb right into their headquarters......maybe.

Provided they even had anything analogous to a headquarters.

 

[B_Nicodemous]

Ok, getting this back on task...lol

Focusing on the ORIGINAL topic first...
The fact that these women felt forced to do this (when it is not being done to them) is horrifying.

Some point out that equally horrible things happen to women in our supposedly more enlightened nation at the hands of their spouses. At least it's not legal here.

And there is the difference. Also as long as the woman can take that first step, there is a better chance here that she can extricate herself from that situation. Granted she will still need to take advantage of the options at hand, but at least an US citizen has things like women's shelters, and free legal aid if you know where to look, as opposed to these women in Iraq.

'The measure of a society is the manner in which it treats its women' Richard Russell

I would like to point out that I completely agree with this. This one point gets muddied later in the thread. No one is talking about this being applicable to only white US women, but to ALL societies and how they treat the women who are a part of them.

As far as I understand, under Sharia Law, the victim has the right to request as punishment the same as they suffered. There is a case in Iran at the moment where the woman victim of an acid attack, requested and was granted that the man have acid poured into his eyes.

I do not agree with, in this case, the literal eye for an eye justice system, but then I am sitting in the comfort of a culture in which we do not disfigure women with acid when they reject our advances.

If you are going to punish barbaric actions with equally barbaric sanctions (and I can see an argument to do this as an extreme deterent for extreme and unacceptable actions), then I would punish acid attackers with castration. That may get the message home to these men and their families.

Not sure if I buy into the eye for an eye thing, but then again I am sitting in a comfy home with no one throwing acid on me. I did have an abusive dad, who threatened just that (throwing acid on my mom's face if she tried to leave that abusive relationship) and I remember wanting to kill him. So I can understand the rationale behind it. Wish I had the miracle solution, but I don't.

It's "legal" to bomb, maim and destroy women in our wars for empire too.

It's legal to torture men fro being suspected terrorists, excuse me, use "enhanced interrogation techniques"

Just go on over to live leaks and watch some movies, and look at the pictures of American bomb victims.
Oh, but Americans do it to 1000s times more people.

Yeah, kill all the ferners ya want, just dun touch err precious white womenz.

isn't "common" just a bit dramatic?

New End, I agree that the US is not perfect and definitely has culpability in the current fracas of going ape shit and being where we shouldn't be. But seeing as how we didn't use this (particular) reason to go over there in to engage in war we have no business being in, I don't see that being especially relevant to this thread.

To be clear, I am not for the "advanced interrogation techniques nor am I blind to the horrors we, as a nation, have inflicted on others. Again, I wish I had the million dollar answer to how to establish Utopia, but I don't. Yes we have spread propaganda. The intelligent person will question it, but also not just leap into the opposite camp of thought, declaring that to be correct. The opposite of wrong is seldom right. It's usually just as wrong.

And Hsarge was using that quote to illustrate (I think) what I have said above.

I don't have the statistics on how common the practice of acid attacks, and burning is. I can look into it if you want me to. Perhaps Helgaleena has, and so her statement isn't "dramatic". Or she could be way off. Do you wish to investigate this with me? I will post what I discover and you can as well, somewhere the truth is bound to come out.

This is knee-jerk leftist twaddle.

I certainly don't support America's most recent "wars," and acknowledge that they brought much suffering. But U.S. forces did not single out innocent individuals -- let alone their own sisters, wives and daughters -- for particularly cruel and painful deaths to satisfy a barbaric code of honor. Furthermore, a lot of people didn't suffer and die who otherwise would have due to our military intervention. I will leave it to historians to decide whether it was all "worth it" -- I suspect it was not -- but it's not like everything was glitter and unicorns over there until America came along and blew it up.

As for "enhanced interrogation techniques," after you've been both waterboarded and set on fire, please come back and let us know if you consider the two even remotely comparable.

I know, you think the Iraq war was justified. All those women burnt by white phosphorus and American bombs were wanted by someone, their husbands, fathers, mothers, daughters, sisters, brothers, sons, friends.

Wanted: their murder is justified. Unwanted: unjustified.
makes sense.

Grrrr. Can we not get into the whole "left/right" thing? Yes perhaps a lot of lives were saved. Maybe not, when you take into account the lives lost. I will say that there are times when people have to stand up and use whatever means necessary to save or free a people.

The most prominent example would be WWII. I would say that had we become involved solely for the atrocities that the Nazi's were performing then I would say we were damn well justified. Though let's face it we only got involved because of Pearl Harbor, I mean, we were pretty isolationistic before that, and I don't really see us, at that time, rushing to anyone’s defense. The thought was more of, well it's not happening here, so who cares." The thing is that if that scenario happened today, if Jews by the millions were being round up, tortured and killed, could you still say there is no reason to get involved? That extreme measures to free them wouldn't be justified?

Yes the women we have killed (however inadvertantly as collateral damege) were someones mother, sister, daughter or wife. And yes that is incredibly heartbreaking (I lost my mother at 13, so i do feel for the families, especially the kids, who have to go through that) But the main gist of this thread, is not should be be over there, but whether we have any humannity left to see what is happening to a people of another nation and be shaken to the core, horrified at the situation, and be driven to do something. What that something should be will continue to be up for debate.

Sorry it ran so long. I will post more to clairfy things as sometimes I can loose my point. But i need to get this down while i was thinking of it.

 

[SpiceFromIndia]

Come one guys America saved the world so many times ..and americans are so brave..... Have not you watched Independence day, Air force one, Armageddon, Fifth Element and so many others ... oh wait .. what ? those were not real ????

 

[B_Nicodemous]

come one guys america saved the world so many times ..and americans are so brave..... Have not you watched independence day, air force one, armageddon, fifth element and so many others ... Oh wait .. What ? Those were not real ????

rotflol

 

[basincreek]

It's the idea that these societies can be so fractured that these women will do this to themselves that gets me. That's disturbing.

 

[B_Nicodemous]

It's the idea that these societies can be so fractured that these women will do this to themselves that gets me. That's disturbing.

I have to agree. There is something, in my mind, more disturbing about a woman feeling that this is the only thing they can do. It's sadder, and creepier, than the out and out other people doing it to someone senario. Now don't get me wrong, that is horriddly monsterous, and anyone who does that... well, my mind can go to some dark places on how they could be dealt with.

But the prolonged abuse (and we are talking mental, emotional, and you can sure as hell bet sexual, that goes along with the physical), that the abuse it is so bad that someone truely says, well, this is the best way out...words fail. the fact that it is ingrained in a culture is disturbing beyond belief, and here i speak notjust of the self immolation, but the acceptance of the treatment that leads to and supports such drastic actions.