The Chick-fil-A thread

Calboner

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I am astonished to find that there is not yet a thread in this forum on the brouhaha over Chick-fil-A. A useful place to start in considering opinions on the issue is this piece in Forbes by Derek Broes (August 1, 2012). Broes presents the issue thus:
In case you missed it, about a week ago Dan Cathy, the president of the very popular fast food chain, said, “We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit.” That comment started a firestorm.

The LBGT community began to try to convince people to boycott Chick-fil-A regardless of the fact that the popular chain doesn’t discriminate against gays as employees or patrons. That doesn’t seem to matter in this case. It appears as though they just want to punish someone for his protected free speech.
So shame on those intolerant LGBT types and their sympathizers for seeking to punish, by economic means, the president of a restaurant chain for merely declaring his personal opposition to gay marriage--right?

No; not right. Bloes attempts to burke the real cause of outcry against Dan Cathy and Chick-fil-A, namely the millions of dollars of the company's profits that go into the effort to shape public policy and law to conform to his conservative-Christian views. Here is an excerpt from a piece that appeared in Media Matters more than a year ago:
Although Cathy has unequivocally denied being anti-LGBT and claimed that he and the company have "no agenda against anyone" and "will not champion any political agendas on marriage and family," Equality Matters research proves just the opposite. In fact, the company has strong, deep ties to anti-gay organizations like Focus on the Family and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and its charitable division has provided more than $1.1 million to organizations that deliver anti-LGBT messages and promote egregious practices like reparative therapy that seek to "free" people of being gay.
A blog post by Wayne Self presents, it seems to me, a particular incisive summation of the issues. Here is an excerpt (though I recommend reading the whole piece, which is not very long):
- In 29 states in America today, my partner of 18 years, Cody, or I could be fired for being gay. Period. No questions asked. One of those states is Louisiana, our home state. We live in self-imposed exile from beloved homeland, family, and friends, in part, because of this legal restriction on our ability to live our lives together.

- In 75 countries in the world, being gay is illegal. In many, the penalty is life in prison. These are countries we can’t openly visit. In 9 countries, being gay is punishable by death. In many others, violence against gays is tacitly accepted by the authorities. These are countries where we would be killed. Killed.

- Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.

- Chick-Fil-A has given roughly $5M to these organizations to support their work.

- Chick-Fil-A’s money comes from the profits they make when you purchase their products.
An even simpler statement of this argument, in graphic form, can be found in this piece at the Miami Herald.
 

lovinglife

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Although Cathy has unequivocally denied being anti-LGBT and claimed that he and the company have "no agenda against anyone" and "will not champion any political agendas on marriage and family," Equality Matters research proves just the opposite. In fact, the company has strong, deep ties to anti-gay organizations like Focus on the Family and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and its charitable division has provided more than $1.1 million to organizations that deliver anti-LGBT messages and promote egregious practices like reparative therapy that seek to "free" people of being gay.
They gave money to the National Christian Foundation, not Focus on the Family. They partnered with Focus on the Family to give away a radio program made by them. That is not really anti-gay, just pro- "traditional family".
A blog post by Wayne Self presents, it seems to me, a particular incisive summation of the issues. Here is an excerpt (though I recommend reading the whole piece, which is not very long):
Not a single source was given.

Honestly, from what I can tell at first glance the stuff they give away are just christian groups. They dont seem to be hating LBGT. And of course a christian group is going to be for a traditional marriage, it is kind of in their religion to believe that marriage is not just a pact between couples but also with God and was defined as man and woman.

Personally, I dont give a damn about what LBGT do with their lives. I am not particularly religious and so I dont care if you get married or not.
 

blazblue

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I'm guessing it's because there isn't really anything else to say. I saw people lining up for that here in Ohio and I found it disheartening at first but now I'm no longer upset because all of those people who showed up there thinking they were fighting for free speech and making a statement did nothing but deepen the pockets of the owner who will probably donate that money to some anti-gay group.

Their protest did nothing to halt the coming of national legalized gay marriage because it's happening whether they like it or not. So let's let them enjoy their CFA. Because while us liberals and progressives get legalized gay marriage, they're one step closer to even more severe clogged arteries and/or type 2 diabetes.
 

D_Billy_Belchbutt

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This is interesting. As a gay guy who does enjoy Chick-Fila-A, despite the relatively unhealthy food, I'm kind of puzzled myself as how to take this.

I personally believe that CEO Cathy's public voicing of the companys being "straight friendly" is a little rediculous. It is unnecessary for companies to try and pick sides in such cultural issue, although I understand that Chick-Fil-A has its roots in Christian beliefs.

You are right, however, that in other countries you will be killed for being gay. I beleive we are lucky enough to live in a country that is not so extreme, but its tolarance has not been totally flexible. For me it is understandable for the LGBT community to lash out against seemingly "anti-gay" companies, because thats what this country has been doing to us in past decades. We're a little defensive in the whole rights dept ;)

In all, I did NOT go to Chick-Fil-A at all today to buy a meal, to order just a water, or to protest. The food is good, but because of their increasingly public cultural views I'm not sure if I'll be eating more of it for awhile.
 

tamati

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I think the Dan Cathy's statement would be a lot less offensive if corporations were still not considered people. but given the political power corps now wield, i say they deserve any backlash they get.

God is love and therefore can not be against gay unions. just because some hate filled, closed minded clergy that wrote the bible were anti gay, does not mean god or his 'son' were at all anti gay.

Denying equal rights to SOME is more against "the word of god", than two same sex people wanting to get married could ever be.

It is high time we strip the tax exempt status from any Church that is anti equal rights for EVERYONE.
 

lovinglife

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I think the Dan Cathy's statement would be a lot less offensive if corporations were still not considered people. but given the political power corps now wield, i say they deserve any backlash they get.

God is love and therefore can not be against gay unions. just because some hate filled, closed minded clergy that wrote the bible were anti gay, does not mean god or his 'son' were at all anti gay.

Denying equal rights to SOME is more against "the word of god", than two same sex people wanting to get married could ever be.

It is high time we strip the tax exempt status from any Church that is anti equal rights for EVERYONE.
I dont think that rights from marriage were ever a concern, or that marriage was even a given right.

Would you be OK with a church that is fine with civil union but against gay marriage?
 

Calboner

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They gave money to the National Christian Foundation, not Focus on the Family. They partnered with Focus on the Family to give away a radio program made by them. That is not really anti-gay, just pro- "traditional family".

Not a single source was given.
Self's piece doesn't give sources; the other pieces that I cited do. As for the contents of the Focus on the Family radio program that was supported by Chick-fil-A, unless you are yourself acquainted with this radio program, I don't see how you can know that it is not anti-gay. Further, your distinction between being anti-gay and being "just pro-'traditional family'" seems to me pretty flimsy. Being pro-"traditional family" means opposing any laws granting marital status and perhaps even domestic partnership status to same-sex couples. Here are some excerpts from the report on Focus on the Family at Right Wing Watch:


  • FOF is a strong supporter of the Defense of Marriage Act; since the decision of Massachusetts to recognize same-sex unions, FOF closely monitors the status of same-sex marriage prevention measures being enacted in each state across the country. . . .
  • FOF works against "special rights" for homosexuals and hate crime legislation, and supports "reparative therapy" for homosexuality, which has been widely discredited and rejected by the vast majority of doctors and physicians. FOF sponsors "Love Won Out," conferences held around the U.S. that claim to prove that "homosexuality is preventable and treatable," where many of the speakers are "ex-gays." "Love Won Out" is from the title of a book by John Paulk, an "ex-gay" who is the host of the conferences and is an employee of Focus on the Family.
  • For those ex-gays who cannot change, FOF considers sexual celibacy another option. FOF regularly asserts the idea that there is a "homosexual agenda" and associates homosexuals with pedophilia and recruitment of children as sex partners.
If that's not anti-gay, I guess I don't know what is.
 
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deleted3782

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My mom proudly waved her half-eaten C-F-A sandwich in front of me on Wednesday after work. She was there for lunch because she was whipped up into an angry fit by FoxNews, who promoted this event as a way to protest the mainstream media, who they perceived as punishing Cathy for stating his views. She does not hate gays individually, but she hates gays as an activist group.

My view is that both sides are being petty. If you want to eat there, or not eat there, I don't give a fuck...but don't make it a partisan event. I bet I have eaten at C-F-A five times in the past 5 years...knowing that they...and a few other Christian Right businesses and organizations (Cracker Barrel and Boy Scouts) don't have the same views of the world that I do. I have also directed my business at various times in the past, away from Exxon and BP - and to Target and KFC...for similar reasons.

Sarcasm @ the KFC link.
 

invisibleman

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I am a gay guy who liked Chick-fil-A sandwiches. Until a couple of months ago, I didn't know that Chick-fil-A donated 5 million dollars to anti marriage equality and anti-gay organizations. I have heard the CEO's speech about being "guilty as charged" for doing that.


I don't agree with the politics. I know that the management has the freedom to do whatever they want with their money. They have a right to manage themselves how they see fit.
I don't even have a problem with their religion based mission.


I am not supporting Chick-fil-A with MY money and they use it against me politically to effect state matters. So, I don't go there anymore. (I can make my own chicken sandwiches if I want chicken sandwiches.)

 

hot-rod

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I'm guessing it's because there isn't really anything else to say. I saw people lining up for that here in Ohio and I found it disheartening at first but now I'm no longer upset because all of those people who showed up there thinking they were fighting for free speech and making a statement did nothing but deepen the pockets of the owner who will probably donate that money to some anti-gay group.

Their protest did nothing to halt the coming of national legalized gay marriage because it's happening whether they like it or not. So let's let them enjoy their CFA. Because while us liberals and progressives get legalized gay marriage, they're one step closer to even more severe clogged arteries and/or type 2 diabetes.
Here Here!.....Indeed!.......lmao.........:usa: Let 'em eat all that deep fried thick white chicken fat, fat-burgers and slurpies.
 
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lovinglife

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Self's piece doesn't give sources; the other pieces that I cited do. As for the contents of the Focus on the Family radio program that was supported by Chick-fil-A, unless you are yourself acquainted with this radio program, I don't see how you can know that it is not anti-gay. Further, your distinction between being anti-gay and being "just pro-'traditional family'" seems to me pretty flimsy. Being pro-"traditional family" means opposing any laws granting marital status and perhaps even domestic partnership status to same-sex couples. Here are some excerpts from the report on Focus on the Family at Right Wing Watch:


  • FOF is a strong supporter of the Defense of Marriage Act; since the decision of Massachusetts to recognize same-sex unions, FOF closely monitors the status of same-sex marriage prevention measures being enacted in each state across the country. . . .
  • FOF works against "special rights" for homosexuals and hate crime legislation, and supports "reparative therapy" for homosexuality, which has been widely discredited and rejected by the vast majority of doctors and physicians. FOF sponsors "Love Won Out," conferences held around the U.S. that claim to prove that "homosexuality is preventable and treatable," where many of the speakers are "ex-gays." "Love Won Out" is from the title of a book by John Paulk, an "ex-gay" who is the host of the conferences and is an employee of Focus on the Family.
  • For those ex-gays who cannot change, FOF considers sexual celibacy another option. FOF regularly asserts the idea that there is a "homosexual agenda" and associates homosexuals with pedophilia and recruitment of children as sex partners.
If that's not anti-gay, I guess I don't know what is.
The only relationship that CFA has with FoF is with that partnership with the radio program. Everything else that FoF does is entirely unrelated. Also, if you read my statement I never said the other places you cited didnt have sources, just the one part that I quoted.

I also dont see how my argument of anti-gay and pro traditional family is in any way flimsy. I can support civil unions and be against gay marriage. They are two entirely different things. I can also be against gay marriage and not care about anything else that gays do at all.
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

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I think probably all corporations have donated to, had board members that participated in the crafting of, or at one point endorsed policies that I personally find objectionable. If it isn't 10 million to stop gay marriage (or marriage) it's 100 million dollars in product crafted by slave labor. As a corporation you are the one person I'm automatically allowed to be distrustful of without being branded a bigot. Corporations, in the 21st century, are evil until proven "meh."

Think about it; are you ever shocked at corporate malfeasance anymore? Is there anyway some collective of shadowy CEO's and board members haven't breached the trust of their clients in the last 10 years?

So this sandwich place is run by an ass hole who can't even get The Bible right (in a literary sense, he read The World According to Garp and then gave a book report summarizing the worst parts of a Danielle Steel novel); quick, everybody flip your shit.

-_-

It's not that backwards thinking CEO who'll be dead in half a generation, nor is it the waddling mass of fast food consumers who hate gays and say so by consuming their weight in fried chicken, nor is it the calls-to-arms this incited in the gay community-

No, what's wrong with this country is that this is what we fucking care about. This sort of sensational nonsense occupies our national attention while actual problems go effectively unaddressed for the thought someone else has probably been trying to fix whatever that might be but can't due to the insurmountable nature of tasks like getting more exercise and reducing your own carbon footprint.

I don't give two fucks about what some chain restaurant has to say about gay marriage nor am I bothered by the fact that obesity and bigotry might finally have a scientific link- If I am disheartened it is only because our national attention is best and easiest had with the equivalent of a pelt mouse on a string, jingling in front of cat.


JSZ​
 

vince

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Finally. The American public gets worked up about a political issue in 2012 and it just takes some chicken food to do it. Has Mr. Romney taking his foot out of his mouth long enough to comment?
 

Hephaestus

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As a person who has no issue with the LBGT community, I think that those who are outraged are just looking for a fight. Its not as if they said they are pro-taliban. He simply states he doesn't personally agree with this situation. Nowhere does it says that gays can't eat there, or even work there. Again, his personal views. Keep in mind, he is only exercising the same rights that, the last time I checked, are a birthright in the US. He has the right to his own religious views, and he has the right to free speech. If people try to stifle his views, then they are doing the exact thing the LBGT community has fought against. Good for the goose....
 

MarkLondon

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@ JustSomeZombie ^^^

Wow. As an Old World member who can't concieve of a nation where the owners of fast food outlets (not restaurants!) get to pronounce on and influence matters of party politics and human relationships (not that the two should ever be intertwined) I was struck by your analogy of the cat toy.

If ever I need to manipulate my cat into doing something against her will or best judgement, the mousey-on-a-stick is the best tool to distract her with!
 

tray22nc

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I don't think that the "backlash" has been over a freedom of speech issue. I refuse to spend my money at an establishment who, in turn, gives some of that money to groups that do not believe in equality for EVERYONE and spend millions of dollars every year to make sure that it never comes. Mr. Cathey has every right to express his opinion, just as I have every right to decide where my hard earned money is spent. Besides, I can make much better food than CFA can and spend less money doing it.
 

Fuzzy_

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I don't think that the "backlash" has been over a freedom of speech issue. I refuse to spend my money at an establishment who, in turn, gives some of that money to groups that do not believe in equality for EVERYONE and spend millions of dollars every year to make sure that it never comes. Mr. Cathey has every right to express his opinion, just as I have every right to decide where my hard earned money is spent. Besides, I can make much better food than CFA can and spend less money doing it.

According to constitutional scholar Sarah Palin, it is a freedom of speech issue, and the rights of Mr. Cathy are being violated.

Palin: Chick-Fil-A Boycott 'Has a Chilling Effect on Our 1st Amendment Rights' | Video Cafe

Here is a quote from that video link:
Well, that calling for the boycott is a real—has a chilling effect on our First Amendment rights. And the owner of the Chick-fil-A business had merely voiced his personal opinion about supporting traditional definition of marriage, one boy, one girl, falling in love, getting married. And having voiced support for kind of that cornerstone of all civilization and all religions since the beginning of time, he's then basically getting crucified.
 

joyboytoy79

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So wait... if calling for a boycott against chick-fil-a has a "chilling effect on our First Amendment rights," (blink) then where was Mrs. Palin - Defender of Free Speech, when One Million Moms was calling for (and to this day participating in) the boycott of JCP?

Yeah, I don't buy her outrage. I don't buy it at all. She's a bigot, and this has nothing to do with free speech. It has everything to do with her not liking gays.
 

kayman

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As a person who has no issue with the LBGT community, I think that those who are outraged are just looking for a fight. Its not as if they said they are pro-taliban. He simply states he doesn't personally agree with this situation. Nowhere does it says that gays can't eat there, or even work there. Again, his personal views. Keep in mind, he is only exercising the same rights that, the last time I checked, are a birthright in the US. He has the right to his own religious views, and he has the right to free speech. If people try to stifle his views, then they are doing the exact thing the LBGT community has fought against. Good for the goose....

I see where you are coming from, but that is not what the boycott is about. It is about the continuation of a chain of events and evidence that shows Chick-fil-A isn't for a more socially equitable society for all. They are funding and aiding organizations to stifle such progress.