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The Cwazy Things Those Wacky Wepublicans Believe - Part III

Discussion in 'Politics' started by maxcok, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. maxcok

    maxcok Sexy Member

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    A recent Harris Poll tracks what Americans believe about President Obama. The results are broken down by Education, Political Philosophy and Political Party. Here's what the Republicans had to say:

    Majorities of Republicans believe that President Obama:
    • Is a socialist (67%)
    • Wants to take away Americans' right to own guns (61%)
    • Is a Muslim (57%)
    • Wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one world government (51%); and
    • Has done many things that are unconstitutional (55%).
    Also large numbers of Republicans also believe that President Obama:
    • Resents America's heritage (47%)
    • Does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do (40%)
    • Was not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president (45%)
    • Is the "domestic enemy that the U.S. Constitution speaks of" (45%)
    • Is a racist (42%)
    • Want to use an economic collapse or terrorist attack as an excuse to take dictatorial powers (41%)
    • Is doing many of the things that Hitler did (38%).
    Even more remarkable perhaps, fully 24% of Republicans believe that "he may be the Anti-Christ" and 22% believe "he wants the terrorists to win."
    While few Democrats believe any of these things, the proportions of Independents who do so are close to the national averages.
    One big surprise is that many more Republicans (40%) than Democrats (15%) believe the president does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do.

    For the full report go here: .Harris Interactive - Harris Polls

    There has been some controversy over the polling methods, and whether the data is a true reflection of attitudes. Since the results pretty well parallel a poll commissioned by the Daily Kos in January and an earlier one last fall, it all seems pretty credible.

    Daily Kos :: State of the Nation

    In the past two years, 'conservatives' in the media have advanced many of these false claims, including that Obama is a Muslim and not a Christian, wants to take away Americans' guns, and was not born in the United States. They have also advanced numerous smears that Obama is a socialist,
    a racist, and has policies and beliefs similar to Hitler's.

    For the reasons people believe this crap, go to the story behind the numbers:

    Harris poll finds Republicans believe GOP smears - Media Matters

    Cwazy. Scawy.
     
    #1 maxcok, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  2. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Scawy indeed.
    I tell you, you Merkuns have become truly crazy about politics.
    Go back 40 years, and the idea of a bipartisan impulse behind something Congress might do was entirely credible.
    But now, Repubs and Dems think of themselves as two different species.
    It's a tragedy.
    The U.S. will need a tremendous amount of unity and political large-mindedness over the coming decades.
    Maybe when the debt crisis hits ... as it will... you will come together.
    But I don't see it happening.
    At the origins of your country, you were a light unto the nations, as pivotal as Greece and Rome.
    Upcoming politicians under all kinds of systems might quote Lincoln or one of the Federalists.
    But now, you just seem to be a tragedy unfolding in slow motion.
    I was speaking of this at a dinner party a few nights ago and was astonished to find myself choking up a little.
    If you don't find yourselves again, it will be, yes, a tragedy.
    For you, and for the world.
     
    #2 D_Gunther Snotpole, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  3. cdunstan1

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    Wise words well said. America can only hope the Coffee Party USA can save us.
     
  4. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Ah, the Coffee Party.
    This is the first mention of them I've heard.
     
  5. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy Banned

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    NO, wingnut Republicans think of themselves as being the one and only group of people capable of running the country (even though every time they take control of the country, it goes to shit within a few years). They have consistently demonized any and all political opponents. And you certainly don't have to be a Dem to feel the hate. (Anyone remember Colin Powell?). Moderate Reps get it even worse. BELIEVE ME, I know from personal experience.

    It's not a tragedy that these people so blatantly put self before country. It's pathetic that they are so weak and cowardly, that they can't even face reality when it doesn't go their way.
     
    #5 B_talltpaguy, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  6. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    They never forgave the world for giving them Bill Clinton.
    I'm sure there's a lot of truth in what you say.
    The only problem is that 'wingnut Republicans' have become an astonishingly large group.

    Why that wouldn't be a tragedy ... all right, a pathetic tragedy ... I don't know. Blindness is a tragedy.
    And the consequences of this blindness are clearly tragic.
     
    #6 D_Gunther Snotpole, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  7. D_Tully Tunnelrat

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    As the great P.J. O'Rourke says "Republicans claim government doesn't work, then get elected and prove it."

    Here's a few more:
    Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

    America wasn't founded so that we could all be better. America was founded so we could all be anything we damned well pleased.

    And one from Turdblossom:
    As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing.
    Karl Rove

    And the great Will Rogers:
    Democrats never agree on anything, that's why they're Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans.
    Will Rogers
     
  8. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Will sure had that one wrong.
     
  9. D_Tully Tunnelrat

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    :biggrin1:

    Also in the same vein from Will: "I don't belong to an organized party: I'm a Democrat."
     
  10. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy Banned

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    I don't disagree.

    I guess my point could have been better conveyed by saying I think that what's going on in US politics these days has moved beyond being 'tragic'. To me, something 'tragic' is something that happens by chance or by accident. This is purposeful.

    What's going on here by the political right is coldly calculated to benefit self above everything else, including country (how many times have we all heard the Limbaugh types tell people they hope the country fails, or the economy continues to do poorly?). It's premeditated and deliberate. The right has incorrectly concluded that if they poison the well, eventually everyone else will die but them. Not only is it obviously a stupid premise to shit where you sleep, but they also seem to have forgotten the lessons of the Civil War, when the nation made it clear that if someone tries to take down the country, then the country is going to make sure you're the guy out in front who gets it the worst.
     
    #10 B_talltpaguy, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  11. stratedude

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    I guess Obama needs to be doing something, ANYTHING to get us Republicans to not believe some of those things, huh? Oh wait! That would mean completely scrapping his entire agenda, and everything he stands for.
     
  12. B_starinvestor

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    I lesson in hypocrisy.

    'the republicans demonize the opposition'

    and this thread had done nothing but demonstrate just that.
     
  13. maxcok

    maxcok Sexy Member

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    It is gratifying to hear a Canadian, or anyone beyond our borders, recognize the critical importance of America's influence in shaping the governments of the modern world. Modern democracy and many of the freedoms enjoyed by literally billions, roughly half the world's population, were for the most part born and developed in the 'Great American Experiment'. Perhaps that is better understood and appreciated elsewhere than it is here. In America these freedoms, as well as the strength of our nation and our democracy, are largely, arrogantly and foolishly taken for granted.*

    I agree with you that as 'the leader of the free world' our slow disintegration and demise is a tragedy, a great tragedy of monumental and historic proportion. Other than at our founding and during the years leading up to and through the Civil War, I can think of no time when our path to the future, who we are as a people and what we represent as a nation, have been put in such dire jeopardy. I have experienced a range of emotions over this - like you, choking up and more, to anger, frustration, and sardonic detachment.

    There are many reasons for this sad fix we find ourselves in, all of them connected: the (deliberate?) dumbing down of the population, the presentation of entertainment and propaganda as news and information, the dominance of corporate interests and influence in our government our politics and virtually every aspect of our lives, the laziness and complacency of the people, deliberate campaigns of misinformation and disinformation, and so on. Ultimately though, it is the people who are to blame. The people are the government, at least they are supposed to be.

    There is no saviour for America, nobody riding on a black or white horse with hope and change in his pocket. The only way I see us getting back on track is if enough reasonable thinking people stop being passive consumers and start acting like citizens. Democrats, Progressives, Independents, the politically unaligned - and most of all moderate Republicans, if there are any - could all take a page from the Teabaggers. They need to stop whining, stand up, get organized, and forcefully counter the absurd and dangerous rhetoric of the right - in other words, get actively involved the the public political arena. That of course would require them to get off their lazy fat asses, turn off their teevees, stop being obsessed with every bright shiny distraction foisted on them by the corporate media, and quit their endless and vain pursuit of materialistic nirvana. I don't have high hopes this happening, so I remain deeply pessimistic. And a little choked up.


    *(The latest Democracy Index published by the Economist lists the United States 18th out of 30 'full democracies' - in other words, more than halfway down the list, just before the Czech Republic and following Japan.)
    I would like to have been at your dinner party. Is that where the esteemed Senor was consumed?
     
    #13 maxcok, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  14. ferfed

    ferfed Sexy Member

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    my head is startin 2 hurt
     
  15. stratedude

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    I know you may find this hard to believe, but I tell you if you spoke this entire post at a tea party rally (except for the part where you say to stand up against the right) it would be met with enthusiastic cheers. This is EXACLY what the tea partyers are feeling right now. What's really remarkable is your inability to see that the threat to the "modern democracy" and "freedoms" and even the "Great American Experiment" itself is the left wing of the present government. What Obama and Pelosi are trying to to is replace the Great American Experiment with the Karl Marx Experience and they are using Rules For Radicals as their playbook to make it happened. If Obama gets his way, we will be on a permanent path. The same Path the Soviet Union was on. We know where that road goes. Tea Partyers are not the radicals. All they want is to stop the people from taking the Great American Experiment and hope for Modern Democracy away from the world. I know you think Democracy is not at stake BUT IT IS. Do you realize that CEO's of companies that spoke out against the healthcare bill have been called before congress to testify under oath? That is just the beginning. As in the USSR, the more power and money people give to the government, the more they will take away in the name of safety and security. Thats when nothing can stop them from doing whatever they want, including taking ALL of your freedom away. Then as people get more and more depressed with their situation, that's when the food lines start, then the famine and chronic poverty, followed by the eventual collapse of the nation. Thats what happened in the USSR because thats what happens in communism, and communism is what Obama wants.
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy Banned

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    Oh, so Obama is a Communist now? Can someone let me know when he goes back to being a Fascist or a Socialist? With all of the batshit labeling going on with our President by our beloved idiots, it's hard to keep up sometimes.
     
  17. invisibleman

    invisibleman Cherished Member

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    Yeah, I agree. But you can't convince any of those beyotches to stop fighting. And news media just spotlights and hypes it up. But people don't realize that at the end of the night it is all a job. Sensationalism is job security for some.
     
  18. maxcok

    maxcok Sexy Member

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    What does that mean,"I lesson in hypocrisy"??? Are you studying hypocrisy? Studying ESL too?

    Is this your own statement? I'm surprised. If this is a quote, are you agreeing? Did you want to give attribution?

    This thread has done nothing but reveal the disturbing attitudes and crazy beliefs held by a great percentage of Republicans, often the majority. Again, are you saying you agree? and approve?? If not, I would suggest you work within your own party to educate and change attitudes. Or you could switch to a party more in line with your own beliefs and ideals.

    The Republicans do demonize the opposition. One need only watch any random half hour on Faux News or any mouthpiece of the Republican leadership to see that.

    Here: Republicans believe GOP smears - Media Matters

    I am very perplexed by your post, Star. I have no idea what you're trying to say. Either I have led you to a remarkable political conversion, or you were drunk when you wrote this. There could be some other explanation I suppose. Another entity has taken you over?? I'm all ears.
     
    #18 maxcok, Mar 31, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  19. B_starinvestor

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    Well I was drunk, but what I meant was this:

    This thread is condemning republicans because they 'demonize the opposition' among other things.

    But you and the others are doing the same thing in this thread - demonizing the opposition.

    How is it any different?

    There are some idiots in the repub party - you'll get no argument here.

    There are plenty in the democratic party as well.

    You are not one of the idiots. But there are several on both sides.
     
  20. JTalbain

    JTalbain Experimental Member

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    As for demonizing the opposition....
    Have the Democrats said anything that comes close to this? In ANY election?
     
  21. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy Banned

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    I'm sure there were a few lunatic fringers on the left who thought Bush was the Anti-Christ... figuratively speaking, of course. I sincerely doubt 24% of them actually lived in fear of Bush because of it, unlike many of Republicans who are now associating Obama with the same dubious title.
     
  22. cruztbone

    cruztbone Experimental Member

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    thank you Maxcock, for your reporting on the Harris survey. It is clear that many Republicans DONT: 1. understand the US constitution. 2. understand what socialism is. 3. understand a birth certificate's legitimacy. 4. understand the Bible.
    5. understand the high caliber of vocabulary used by our president. 6. understand
    REALITY.

    it is as if they are all being channeled by, dare i say the name.......TRINITY!!!!!!!
     
  23. maxcok

    maxcok Sexy Member

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    Ah, I've come to read you so well.

    but what I meant was this:

    This thread is condemning republicans because they 'demonize the opposition' among other things.

    But you and the others are doing the same thing in this thread - demonizing the opposition.

    How is it any different?

    How is it different? We're not 'demonizing' Republicans as you say, not I, not the thread, not the other posters from what I see. I am only bringing to the forum what these polls have brought to light, and people are commenting on that. Namely:

    People are commenting, criticizing perhaps, and justifiably so.

    Your party is demonizing the president, a substantial number quite literally.

    No one is 'demonizing' Republicans, unless they are doing it to themselves.

    There are some idiots in the repub party - you'll get no argument here.
    There are apparently lots of idiots in the Repub party. A majority of idiots, it would appear.

    There are plenty in the democratic party as well.
    Yes, there are. But that does not mean they are equivalent, in numbers or in levels of craziness.

    You are not one of the idiots.
    I thank you for recognizing and acknowledging that. There is hope for you after all
     
    #23 maxcok, Mar 31, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  24. D_Tully Tunnelrat

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    Conservatism and liberalism are nothing new in American politics... but the avalanche, and immediacy of demagogic outlets now makes us react more than think.

    This brief summation of conservative political thought prior to the '50's' is as current today as it was then.

    American conservatism was less a coherent ideology than an irritably reactionary mood: reflexively hostile to the federal government, staunchly isolationist, explicitly anti-modern, anti-intellectual, proudly agrarian, and incapable of distinguishing between communism and New Deal liberalism, which were treated as twin forms of modern tyranny.*

    It's no coincidence that the civilizing influences of intellectual conservatism: Whittaker Chambers and William F. Buckley are deceased. Their self-appointed heirs: Gingrich, Rove, Limbaugh, and Beck would be unable to intelligently converse with either of them for both Chambers and Buckley felt there was a legitimate, albeit small, role for government in modern life.

    Conservatism centers on orthodoxy, or supplants one - Communism -, for another - Christianity. It seems to only function best when in total opposition, such as in the previous examples, otherwise how can one rally the masses to the presence of evil ? Buckley often claimed the greatest sin of Communism was it's godlessness, not it's totalitarianism.

    Liberalism seeks to critique it's own orthodoxies, inherently making it, as best put by Lionel Trilling “variousness, possibility, complexity, and difficulty.” replete with the accompanying self-doubt and indecision - aka "pointy headedism," which in it's best thinking seeks to avoid all forms of totalitarianism.

    Unfortunately for us, liberalism, post 60's (Chicago 8/7, etc.), has become stale, supplicated by wealth, and more fractious and strident with each decade, which may well be why the country has moved to the right. Liberals have lost the national language of simplicity and hope, save under Clinton and Obama. They rarely challenge their own orthodoxies, while attacking other's. And they seek to codify their beliefs (yes, even liberals have those...) into unfathomable stacks of new rules orthodoxy (2500 pages for health care...), hoping that infinite detail settles or obscures each matter once and for all, instead of using day-by-day, practical, simple to understand common sense.

    We have met the enemy, and they are us.

    Here's an excerpt from FDR's Inaugural Address from 1933, which still seems apt:

    This is preeminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great Nation will endure, as it has endured, will revive and will prosper.

    So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself -- nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life, a leadership of frankness and of vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. And I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days.

    American Rhetoric: Franklin Delano Roosevelt - First Inaugural Address

    * The Illiberal Imagination | The New Republic
     
  25. maxcok

    maxcok Sexy Member

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    So, can I safely assume you are in agreement with the views expressed in the poll? Can I also assume you get your 'news' and 'information' pretty much exclusively from Fox and right-wing blogs?


    I somehow doubt that. If they did cheer, it would be because they were dazzled by my patriotic passion and completely misunderstood my meaning. I doubt even you would cheer if you could look past the fine sounding words to comprehend what I am actually saying.

    This is EXACLY what the tea partyers are feeling right now. What's really remarkable is your inability to see that the threat to the "modern democracy" and "freedoms" and even the "Great American Experiment" itself is the left wing of the present government. What Obama and Pelosi are trying to to is replace the Great American Experiment with the Karl Marx Experience and they are using Rules For Radicals as their playbook to make it happened.
    'What's really remarkable' is the gullibility of people like you believing such ridiculous nonsense. Nothing of the sort is happening. 'What's really remarkable' is how incredibly ignorant you and your pseudo patriots are of American history, the Constitution, our system of government and basic principles of democratic rule. 'What's really remarkable' is how grossly uninformed and misinformed you and your fellows are on the very issues you are protesting against, how incapable or unwilling you are to think for yourselves, how you suck down whatever load of crap is served up by the right-wing media, and how you stubbornly resist and reject the intrusion of any thought that might broaden your outlook or change your point of view.

    If Obama gets his way, we will be on a permanent path. The same Path the Soviet Union was on. We know where that road goes. Tea Partyers are not the radicals. All they want is to stop the people from taking the Great American Experiment and hope for Modern Democracy away from the world. I know you think Democracy is not at stake BUT IT IS.
    I do think democracy is at stake, in this country at least, though the rest of the world will probably adjust and do just fine. How could you read my post, comment positively on it, and miss that? It was kinda central to the whole premise. I also think that the future of this nation as a good and great world power is at stake, our way of life is at stake, the very principles this nation was founded upon are at stake. The threat is not from Obama or the scary 'liberal left'. The threat comes from a growing right-wing fringe who are trying to overthrow majority rule through fearmongering, uncivil discourse, disruption, obstructionism and violence - the very people who ironically claim to be defending freedom and democracy. The threat ultimately comes from the corporate masters whose purpose rabid sheep like you unwittingly serve, ironically in the name of patriotism.

    Do you realize that CEO's of companies that spoke out against the healthcare bill have been called before congress to testify under oath?
    As well they should be. My biggest problem with the Healthcare bill - and I have many - is that it is a gift to the insurance companies and big pharma. By mandating that everyone purchase insurance, not providing a public option for competition, doing nothing significant to reign in the cost of premiums or unnecessary services -this bill allows these corporations to essentially double their market share and profits by feeding off consumers. These industries were very much in the back door and at the table crafting the bill, and that is deplorable.

    That is just the beginning. As in the USSR, the more power and money people give to the government, the more they will take away in the name of safety and security. Thats when nothing can stop them from doing whatever they want, including taking ALL of your freedom away. Then as people get more and more depressed with their situation, that's when the food lines start, then the famine and chronic poverty, followed by the eventual collapse of the nation. Thats what happened in the USSR because thats what happens in communism, and communism is what Obama wants.
    I'm really not interested in responding to all the absurdities and blatant disinformation there, so I'm going to skip past your complete ignorance of Soviet history and communism in general and move on. If anything comes to pass as you describe in your scenario, and I'm not saying it can't, it will not be at the hands of Obama, WHO IS NOT A COMMUNIST! OR A MARXIST!! OR EVEN A SOCIALIST!!! You and your ilk use these labels as scary buzzwords without remotely understanding their meaning. A little socialism is hardly a bad thing, our system incorporates quite a lot of it actually. You do realize that the most popular government programs, Medicare and SOCIAL Security, are fundamentally socialist programs, right? If anything like you describe comes to pass, it will be from the confluence of events unprepared for, and from the rise of tyrannical authoritarianism that strips us of our liberties, invades our privacy, and controls the population through fear - like the road we were headed down in the eight years of the previous presidential administration. Where were you and your buddies then?

    The great irony (and I don't mean this with condescension, but I have noticed that 'irony' is a concept apparently foreign to many on the far right, so please make sure you understand what it is) as I was saying, the great irony is that the Tea Partiers and those of you on the extreme right are serving the purpose of the Republican party and ultimately their corporate overlords, while naively thinking you are in the service of democracy and saving America. Nothing could be more opposite from the truth. Simply put, and though you are unaware of it, you are tools.

    The Republican party ultimately doesn't give a crap about you or your misguided ideals. When it comes right down to it, they really didn't give a crap about the religious right, gay marriage, abortion, burning the flag, etc. either - all those hot button social issues they use to drag all the lunatics into their big circus tent. Exploiting these issues and the racial divide has always been a cynical political ploy to increase their base, and fearmongering is their stock and trade. Unfortunately, now the lunatics are in such large numbers they have taken over the asylum.

    Before we talk again, I would strongly encourage you to broaden your sources of news and information beyond what feeds your preconceived notions. I would also strongly encourage you to educate yourself on American history and the documents and the principles this nation and this government were founded upon. The Federalist Papers are mandatory. If you have not read it, I could also suggest as a starting point in your education George Orwell's 1984. Try to read it for comprehension and see the parallels in recent history and current events. When you've done that, and developed some critical thinking skills, get back to me.


    Addendum: I notice big bad brave stratedude has gone quiet after being challenged for espousing even more twisted logic and an extreme agenda in another thread. I wonder if he has the conviction of his beliefs and the strength of argument to return, or if he is, like so many of his political persuasion, fundamentally a noisy coward?

    :cool:
     
    #25 maxcok, Apr 1, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  26. Qua

    Qua
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    I believe those first two. But I believe the same thing about every president in the first place (and don't really care), and about every president to come around since the passage of the Federal Reserve Act (and some time prior) in the second.

    And yeah, I honestly find that last point to be a surprise. Seems Democrat types are more into to corporate/financial conspiracies and are somewhat non-partisan with applying them. I think it basically shows that populism does not fit within party lines, and this time its the Republicans fanning that flame.
     
    #26 Qua, Apr 1, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  27. jackflynn7

    jackflynn7 Lurker

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    Does he or does he not have A LARGE PENIS??????:banana:
     
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