The effects of No Child Left Behind

Discussion in 'Politics' started by OldPArtner, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. OldPArtner

    OldPArtner New Member

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    I'm glad I dodged that bullet: PDK International | Phi Delta Kappan: Mangione V89N04 April 2008 pp 712-720
    I got that link from here: Robert Rose: Homework: Adversarial Relationships?
    I'll be especially relieved if this shit gets fixed before my kids are old enough for school, which will take a while because I have no kids and even getting a girlfriend is still far on the horizon but still.

    Also look for a juicy passage about requiring a kid to master desktop-publishing software.
     
  2. Principessa

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    Didn't click the links, but as an educator I can tell you that NCLB is the worst thing to happen to public school education in this country since they got rid of state teachers colleges. :mad: I'd call it a boondoggle but that really doesn't do it justice.

    No Child Left Behind is the 'brain child' of Rod Paige and backed by GW Bush. So basically it came about because a gym teacher and a drunk cheerleader thought it was a good idea. :angryfire2:
    During his tenure as secretary of education, Rod Paige contracted with Armstrong Williams to provide United States government funded propaganda in support of No Child Left Behind. A Government Accountability Office investigation concluded that the deal violated laws prohibiting covert propaganda.[1] The FCC fined Amstrong $76,000 for his illegal activities.
    It should also be noted that althought Mr. Paige holds an Ed.D. he has never taught grades K-12. NCLB is only for grades K-12 so to have him mandate rules for this age group is just asinine to me.

     
  3. 1BiGG1

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    The horrific mess many of our schools are in, especially the inner city schools I’m glad they at least tried something! When I think of the educator ranks filled with so many worthless people, and the broken system good educators must deal with its sickening.
     
  4. b.c.

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    I've written of NCLB in another thread.

    Some hold/held NCLB to be a Republican/Bush plot to hold public eduation to unattainable guidelines and ever increasingly higher performance goals, while at the same time, undermining financing and offering little support - all for the sole purpose of then bringing in voucher programs as an alternative to public education.

    (In one of the debates, McCAin alluded to this voucher concept that already had partial implementation here in N.O., claiming it as an "opportunity" for kids who might otherwise not have had the chance to go to a non-public school).
     
  5. Gl3nn

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    Change the system. If the educators don't do their job well...fire them!
    I remember a guy who was teaching for the first time about 2 years ago.
    Ok, it was his first time, but he was terrible, didn't know what he was talking about, ...

    We got him fired in a week. After that another teacher came.

    That's the way it should be. Good educators or they can hit the street.
     
  6. houtx48

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    have you ever had a second date biggie?.........i could just imagine a first date all you would do is bitch dome and gloom.
     
  7. mindseye

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    And how are we going to recruit good educators, when we (1) put a whole mess of obstacles in the licensure process, and then (2) undercompensate the teachers who overcome those obstacles?

    As for the obstacles: in Virginia, the licensure manual is eighty-two pages long (source is a PDF). For a K-12 mathematics teacher, the requirements include 54 semester hours of specific coursework and 300 clock hours of supervised student teaching.

    And then, after all that, the starting salary for a K-12 math teacher is $34,228. Even with thirty years of experience and a Ph.D., the maximum salary is capped at $57,875.04.

    It'd be nice (and I'm not singling you out here, Gl3nn) if half the folks who advocate "hitting the streets" for bad teachers were as vocal about identifying and compensating good ones.
     
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    In addition, assimilating a hefty student loan in pursuit of an education degree leaves talented educators with a financial burden that is nearly impossible to overcome given unfair salaries due to the strict budgets that schools are left to work with.

    Sadly, teachers/instructors that complete college and are burdened by student loans earn about 1/3 to 1/2 the compensation of UAW members performing physical labor which entails no education.

    The talent pool in the education profession is shrinking more quickly than that of the medical profession. In fact, top salesman are out-earning physicians by a longshot, and with more flexible hours.

    Educators are a group that deserve more praise than criticism. Not to mention, they are held to a higher degree of ethical conduct and integrity than nearly all professions.

    Doncha be pickin' on teachers, Gl3nn....I have an affinity for teachers, with the exception of Mindseye.

    J/k, Mindseye. As long as you're not teaching political science
     
    #8 B_starinvestor, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  9. earllogjam

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    No child left behind?

    Where are you taking them to? Economic Disasterland? I have no job for you in the near or distant futureland?

    I would suggest you find a better place to take the children of America before renting the bus.
     
  10. 1BiGG1

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    You are forgetting to add 3 months paid vacation, Christmas & spring break along with other holidays. Generous health care/benefit packages and generous pension plans.
     
  11. 1BiGG1

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    Only when I allow it :wink:
     
  12. Zeuhl34

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    Seriously, 1Bigg1, give it a rest. Those teachers are underpaid and need a pay increase. Yes, teachers in public schools do get benefits because they're in a union, but they still aren't paid as much as they should be.
     
  13. 1BiGG1

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    They can choose another job if they don’t like the one they have like the rest of us. There are many others out there with the same education levels that make similar money and don’t have near the time off and benefit/pension plans teachers have.
     
  14. OldPArtner

    OldPArtner New Member

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    I know that because of the relatively low pay, lack of respect from both students and parents, and being treated like a pedophile and as the pawn of interest groups all over this land, there is *no* way I'm becoming a teacher, even though that was the first and most persistent career idea that popped into the minds of many people where I grew up when they learned that I would be majoring in mathematics (never mind the fact that I would have to get teaching credentials first, many people believe if you majored in it, you're more than qualified to teach high school).
     
  15. mindseye

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    Three months paid vacation? Not in Virginia. I still draw a paycheck during the summer, thanks to "deferred pay" in which the state keeps a portion of my salary each paycheck for nine months, and then returns it to me without interest during the summer months, but I'm not "getting paid" for the summer unless I work during the summer.

    I get paid while schools are on break, but I have five workdays during those breaks this year (two during the fall, two during Christmas, one during the spring).

    I do get excellent health care benefits (the state pays 85% of the premium); the 'pension plan' is tied to our salary, so 'generous' is a relative term here.
     
  16. Milbury

    Milbury New Member

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    I just lost a lot of words, so I'll make this as succinct as possible. A teacher, regardless of where they're situated, more than earns his or her paycheck. After all, they do spend 9 months per year, 20 days per month and 8 hours per day acting as the parents to a Bizarro birthday party. Where the children are expected to sit quietly and listen to one person, unable to use up all of that energy provided to them in the form of sugary breakfast cereal or Pop-Tarts. Where almost any form of discipline that could be used is (in more than a few cases) immediately termed "child abuse" by busybody/neglectful parents. With the usual comments about how "Billy's always good when he's home. She's a liar and an unfit teacher!", or, "My Tammy would never, ever put thumbtacks in someone's chair!", or, "Why does he get so much homework!!? 7 o'clock is 'Halo 3' time in our house!" Do you remember your childhood? Are you going to respond by saying that every single child with whom you attended school was a veritable saint?

    And after the school day's done, there's the tests which need to be graded and the homework that has to be verified and the various school projects have to be prepared for the next day. A kindergarten teacher has it easy (one class). How much work would you assume goes into setting up a full day's working schedule for your average 10th grade history teacher? (5-7 daily classes) Doesn't leave a lot of time for personal business, does it? Teachers don't live in hyperbaric chambers, you know. They have to pay their bills, buy and eat food, and get some sort of stress relief in their lives.

    Part 2 coming.
     
  17. Milbury

    Milbury New Member

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    Part 2

    Now, about that lovely check, that magical $35,000+ check that makes everything worthwhile.

    $35,000 a year is about $2,908 a month. If the teacher lives in a low-population state, he may be taxed at a 15-20% rate, so he has $2200 left per month. His rent and utilities will be lower, so he may pay somewhere between $600-$1000 to maintain a roof over his head and heat for the winter (It's cold here, so I'll bump the rent up accordingly. And he or she mustn't live on "the bad side of town" because what would the parents think?) So now we have $1200 left. Food's gonna be at least another $200-300 a month, so it's $900. Small town, need a car. $200 for car note and $200 for insurance should cover it. $500 left after basic expenditures, that's good, right? Enough to set up a little nest egg, pay for a movie here and there...Union dues! Let's carve off another $200 for that, but at least your health benefits are intact.

    $300 left. Hmm, what to do with that windfall? Maybe, just maybe, teachers are as human as the rest of us. So, let's erase that bit of cash and use it for personal advancement and/or sex. Female teacher: gets free dinner from dates, but she has to keep up appearances, especially in a country town. Male teacher can get away with a white shirt-black/blue/khaki pants-loafers/sneakers at work, but he has to pay for dates and look good while doing it, because most women aren't attrracted to scruffy guys with less money than manners. Unless, of course, you're advocating that teahcers spend their entire lives without contemplating the idea of getting their dicks wet, or their clits sucked, or their orifices filled by any sort of human tissue/plastic devices.
     
  18. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    And if you choose to have kids....:eek: Tough, tough, tough. I see people steering talented kids that want to teach away from teaching for economic reasons. Its too bad, but how do you argue with it? They are looking at a tough road financially, to say the least. I have a problem with unions like UAW that cripple the organizations in which they exist. It would create a serious faux pas if teachers were highly-paid, but I submit that the reward doesn't fit the investment for the teaching community.

    That being said, your psychological rewards trump about any other profession. It may not get you lavish material things, but I bet you sleep well.
     
  19. Milbury

    Milbury New Member

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    Metropolitan teachers, OTOH, don't get off as easy. Pay's higher, so we start with $40,000, but taxes are higher, so chop off $10,000 paid in taxes per year.
    $30,000 a year equals $2500 per month. Rent and utilities are higher, ($900-1500 per month), so we'll go with the highest expenditure as to avoid the "rough parts of the city". Small town life will see a stray bullet wing through your roof, big city life will see various thugs rob you at gunpoint while referring to you with your professional name. We're down to $1000. Minus those pesky dues again, so we're closer to $800. Transportation isn't as bad. Municipal services allow you to use buses and subways, usually for $75-90 a month. So, we have $700 to play with for the month, minus food. Big city means more expensive choices, but you're going to buy the cheapest stuff, so we'll chop off another $200, leaving us with $500 after maintaing the bare minimum needed to keep your job and your health in order.
    Why are we buying the cheap stuff? Because you're in the big city, dumbass, and you have to look sharp now, especially if you're male. A guy (eg. Me) can look at a mousy woman and say, "Eh, maybe she fucks like a minx in heat." Women don't work that way, and you have to be hot as hell to overcome the "broke teacher" look if you're metropilitan and gay, so you have to try to look your best. Supplement your shirt collection with a $150 designer brand here, a $100 pair of jeans there and a pair of $200 shoes, and now you're done for the month. Stretch it out, buying one piece of cool gear per month, and your outfit is out of style before you can put it all together. Try picking up chicks with last year's fashions in a major city. It doesn't work. You need a nice car and/or nice clothes to get a woman to take notice (being visibly hung works also, but not as much). But, we're on the "one piece a month guideline", so we're down to $400 a month. Wanna go on a date? Write off $50-100 at that very moment, because the cheapest date is going to run you a pretty penny, unless you're "just that damn fine". Or a woman, in which you'll have to spend even more "dressing up" money to catch a guy's attention for those yummy dinners.

    Part 4 coming.
     
    #19 Milbury, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  20. Milbury

    Milbury New Member

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    I'm no teacher, but you gave me a very convenient way to segue into my last point.

    Teachers can't be kinky, at least in public. If there's any kinkydirtyfreakysexyunhealthy lifestyle of which you're connected to, it has to be kept undercover, because it only takes one complaint to earn your walking papers. If you work in a steel mill, the boss could care less about the time that you stuck it in her pooper until she squirted. Corporate office? Corporate nooners. Mid-level teacher? Pure as the driven snow. You have to self-censor at work, because you never know who's waiting to get back at you for the time your class won that pizza party. and, even if your workmates are cool (mostly male with some partying girls, or mostly female with nerdy or curious guys), you can't let the children hear because it will shatter their fragile little minds. Your juicy stories have to wait until Miller time at the local pub, and that's if you're living somewhere large enough to maintain some sort of anonymity. You don't want to be known as "Mr. Fister" in small-town America.

    (That is, unless you don't care about being ostracized and eventually fired.)

    For that matter, being a member of an "adult website" (look around, If you're reading this) is enough to trigger an investigation into your "lifestyle". Ms. Pennington (3rd grade teacher) can't enjoy those lovely threesomes with the Brundles, because it's "immoral". Mrs. Winn doesn't get to enjoy her weekly spitroasting from the guys over at the local swingers' club (Even if one of the guys has a "fat, luscious cock" {I changed her name}). And if it gets out that Mr. Nkoze spends his weekends at the local chapter of "Booty Buddies Bathhouse and Gym" ("Where real men meet the men of their dreams!"), he may as well resign on the spot to avoid future embarassment. And all for the lovely price of barely keeping a roof over your head and a full belly.
     
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